PFF grades week 8

[RiverRat13]

The interior OL is solid overall. But Cleveland's DT's are garbage, so Cappa/Karras/Volson should have good scores against the Browns.

[Frank Booth]

(11-01-2022, 03:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: With Volson and Karras being the highest graded on the offense last night, makes you wonder why they didn't try to establish handing the ball to Perine up the gut?

I heard it's the shotgun runs that are the problem.

There has to be some sort of disguise to the run game. With cincy, it's just hand the ball off, and the safety comes down and disrupts the play

[WeezyBengal]

(11-01-2022, 03:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: With Volson and Karras being the highest graded on the offense last night, makes you wonder why they didn't try to establish handing the ball to Perine up the gut?

That would have made too much sense. 

Play calling, play design, scheme has all been ass. 

[WeezyBengal]

(11-01-2022, 03:18 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I heard it's the shotgun runs that are the problem.

There has to be some sort of disguise to the run game. With cincy, it's just hand the ball off, and the safety comes down and disrupts the play

The RPO was supposed to help with this. But they bailed on it for some reason last night.

There is none of that. No motion, no misdirection, no creativity to anything they do. 

Watch what the Dolphins do on offense and then watch what we do. It's insane how much their scheme, misdirection, etc helps out their offense as a whole. 

[SunsetBengal]

(11-01-2022, 03:18 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I heard it's the shotgun runs that are the problem.

There has to be some sort of disguise to the run game. With cincy, it's just hand the ball off, and the safety comes down and disrupts the play

I can't get on board with that notion.  I observe other teams run effectively from shotgun with regularity.  I think that it's a lack of commitment to running the ball straight ahead, weather on part of the coaching staff or a reluctance to make the call by Burrow.  

It was also touched upon earlier this season that perhaps Mixon gives off visual cues that tip the play when he's going to carry the ball, which is why I suggested using Perine more.  Perhaps they could just alternate series, as Perine is also a good receiver and better pass protector?  That dude hits the hole, downhill, and delivers a pounding to the defenders.  That is how you slow-up an unruly pass rushing defense.

[brian5562]

Surprised by Pratt's grade. Thought he was awful last night. All of his tackles were down the field. He was slow to fill his gap and totally whiffed on a sack.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2022, 03:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I can't get on board with that notion.  I observe other teams run effectively from shotgun with regularity.  I think that it's a lack of commitment to running the ball straight ahead, weather on part of the coaching staff or a reluctance to make the call by Burrow.  

It was also touched upon earlier this season that perhaps Mixon gives off visual cues that tip the play when he's going to carry the ball, which is why I suggested using Perine more.  Perhaps they could just alternate series, as Perine is also a good receiver and better pass protector?  That dude hits the hole, downhill, and delivers a pounding to the defenders.  That is how you slow-up an unruly pass rushing defense.

That's where the gap was to run. Straight ahead. For some reason, the Bengals like to get outside...and they can't.

The Browns played their ends and DT's wide. Center had no one over him and sometimes the Guards didn't. Burrow could sneak or hand off...yet they didn't.

[WhoDey]

(11-01-2022, 01:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s pretty amazing Burrow was able to grade out that high with a matador at LT.

Same for Volson having to play next to one.

Agreed

[Frank Booth]

(11-01-2022, 03:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I can't get on board with that notion.  I observe other teams run effectively from shotgun with regularity.  I think that it's a lack of commitment to running the ball straight ahead, weather on part of the coaching staff or a reluctance to make the call by Burrow.  

It was also touched upon earlier this season that perhaps Mixon gives off visual cues that tip the play when he's going to carry the ball, which is why I suggested using Perine more.  Perhaps they could just alternate series, as Perine is also a good receiver and better pass protector?  That dude hits the hole, downhill, and delivers a pounding to the defenders.  That is how you slow-up an unruly pass rushing defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWCAW-4kgo4&t=1805s&ab_channel=ProFootballFocus

so just watch and tell me what you think

[Nicomo Cosca]

After 8 games (the old halfway point), here's the top graded Bengals from PFF

Offense
1) Chase
2) Burrow
3) Higgins
4) Boyd
5) Cappa

Defense
1) Hendrickson
2) Hubbard
3) Awuzie
4) L.Wilson
5) Hilton

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 1, 2022

The shocking part to many is how many snaps Thomas and Wilcox have played.

Your WR4 and TE2 will play a ton. You don't want practice squad players at those spots.

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 1, 2022

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

I laugh at people blaming the line for Burrow's ineffectiveness yet wonder out loud why Mixon can't get going.

[sonofstat]

(11-01-2022, 01:35 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Also, Perine>>>Mixon.

If Mixon wasn’t making the money he is he would have already lost his job.

i like Mixon and clearly he's loved by his teammates and connects with fans .... but i'm really thinking this maybe needs to be his last year if we are paying him what we we are.

At this point i don't care if its the line or him - there are a cheaper options to generate 3.3 yards per carry.

If Zac/Callahan really value the short dump off , YAC option at RB then go draft a mid round scatback type who will always make the 1st man miss.

[M.W.]

(11-01-2022, 02:03 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: They should, at the very least, be sharing carries 50/50ish

I agree - they should split the 10 carries 

[*Go Cards*]

(11-01-2022, 04:22 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

After 8 games (the old halfway point), here's the top graded Bengals from PFF

Offense
1) Chase
2) Burrow
3) Higgins
4) Boyd
5) Cappa

Defense
1) Hendrickson
2) Hubbard
3) Awuzie
4) L.Wilson
5) Hilton

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 1, 2022

The shocking part to many is how many snaps Thomas and Wilcox have played.

Your WR4 and TE2 will play a ton. You don't want practice squad players at those spots.

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 1, 2022

Guess this is on the year though and am not a Mike Thomas fan at all. See that it was now oops.

But seems it would be very hard to do worse than Jonah did last night imo. 

Remember when we all thought the O-line was going to be very good and our only concern was Volson, the good old days. 

[BengalsBong]

(11-01-2022, 03:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I saw stats about RB's in year 6 or later...and how their production falls off a cliff.

RB is totally a position where you need to draft guys every 2-3 years and cycle them through in committee. And if you extend them, only do it for a couple years.

If your team is a pass heavy team or you split carries 50/50 with another back, you can extend a player's time in the league. Mixon was used a lot in a run heavy team the first few years and we never used him as a 50/50 split guy he always got the lion's share of carries.  

[BengalsBong]

(11-01-2022, 03:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: With Volson and Karras being the highest graded on the offense last night, makes you wonder why they didn't try to establish handing the ball to Perine up the gut?

With Collins mobility limited by injury Cappa and Karras not being really big mobility guys all on the right side of our line you would think they would be running north south and not trying to stretch every running play out wide. Volson and Willams are the only two linemen that have that mobility to run the stretch plays.

Volson is suited to run north south because of play style a rough guy that likes to drive block.

[casear2727]

(11-01-2022, 03:18 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I heard it's the shotgun runs that are the problem.

There has to be some sort of disguise to the run game. With cincy, it's just hand the ball off, and the safety comes down and disrupts the play

What?  Until last night we were averaging almost 6 yards per carry with the shotgun runs.

[Frank Booth]

(11-01-2022, 09:39 PM)casear2727 Wrote: What?  Until last night we were averaging almost 6 yards per carry with the shotgun runs.

Direct yourself to the link I posted earlier in the thread

[casear2727]

(11-01-2022, 11:36 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Direct yourself to the link I posted earlier in the thread

So... we went from 2.9 YPC, switched to shotgun runs and Mixon was avg 5.5 for 3 games.  They have one disastrous game all the way around and now the shotgun runs are the problem?  You are going by 2 guys who are giving opinions on every single team?  Doesn't make sense.

[KillerGoose]

(11-01-2022, 04:03 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWCAW-4kgo4&t=1805s&ab_channel=ProFootballFocus

so just watch and tell me what you think

He isn't really saying that shotgun runs are the problem, but that they are predictable in how they do it. He talks about RPOs to create conflict and prevent the safety from coming up and making the plays. He says that Cincinnati isn't doing that, so when Burrow flashes the ball down, it is most likely a run and not a play-action or RPO. According to PFR, Cincinnati has ran 20 RPOs this season. That's good for 6th in the league, but the #1 team, Atlanta, has ran 80. He also brings up how heavily LSU used RPOs during the 2019 run. PFF only has stats around play-action, but the LSU offense average 11 "conflict" plays per game. Cincinnati averages six, and only two-ish RPOs per game. He is right that you are slightly more limited in how you run the ball in shotgun but it isn't anything that will prevent you from having an effective run game. It's not coincidental that shotgun runs have been more effective than under center runs for 10+ years now. 

EDIT - For clarification, I am not saying you are factually wrong. Just that I am not interpreting that video to say that shotgun runs are the problem, only the lack of conflict.