I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC...

[higgy100]

(11-01-2022, 11:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And what coaching qualities did he use to do that?

What coaching qualities did he do monday night to lose?
-ZT's fault that they didn't get the PI on Higgins in the 1st quarter?
ZT's fault the kicker missed a FG and a PAT?
ZT's fault Burrow has hands like a little baby and fumbled the ball away?
ZT's fault that Mike Thomas dropped a huge 20 plus yard 1st down conversion?
ZT's fault Williams gave up 2 huge sacks on spin moves that Williams practiced against all week long?
ZT's fault Bell played to underneath and bit too soon and couldn't recover in time on a deep post reception?
ZT's fault that he got hardly any holding calls on the Browns OL that you were begging for all night long?

If you want to blame the guy and kick his him in the nutz when they lose then you sure as hell better give HIM credit when they win and go to a SB. Any other thought process is absolutely ignorant.

[Housh]

I just find it hilarious no one but 1 person named any actual shit Zac does to win. Everyone else is like “he existed on a team that won playoff games.”

So we’re really about to act like the players didn’t play out their ass for those playoff wins? What’s the playoff game where you can say “Jesus Zac really won them that one”?


Against Raiders Burrow and Pratt saved us.

Against Tennessee Ryan Tannehill being trash along with Burrow and McPherson saved us.

Against Chiefs Burrow and Jamarr Chase went absolutely insane. Zac’s poor coaching got us in a 21-3 hole early. McPherson saved him again.


If you are gonna say “well Zac called the plays that worked so well so give him satellite credit” then i don’t even know about that. Burrows headset went out against Ten so he called that whole last drive by himself. We don’t know how many calls are Zac’s calls and how many have been changed by Burrow.



As Zac’s biggest hater I’ll admit….he’s a great leader. His speeches make ME want to run through a wall for him.

He seems to have changed the culture by himself which is impressive.


He’s just not that guy as a OC. This is fine i just wish he’d pass it off. But there is absolutely not enough evidence pointing to Zac being good for 90% of the replies in this thread to be sarcastically making fun of the OP for questioning Zac.



Shit like this makes me wonder about a theory i had years ago, that some of you guys are paid by the team to post here and kinda keep things “calm”.


Y’all defending Zac like he’s been making playoffs for 10 years or something

[THE PISTONS]

(11-02-2022, 08:58 AM)Housh Wrote: I just find it hilarious no one but 1 person named any actual shit Zac does to win. Everyone else is like “he existed on a team that won playoff games.”

So we’re really about to act like the players didn’t play out their ass for those playoff wins? What’s the playoff game where you can say “Jesus Zac really won them that one”?


Against Raiders Burrow and Pratt saved us.

Against Tennessee Ryan Tannehill being trash along with Burrow and McPherson saved us.

Against Chiefs Burrow and Jamarr Chase went absolutely insane. Zac’s poor coaching got us in a 21-3 hole early. McPherson saved him again.


If you are gonna say “well Zac called the plays that worked so well so give him satellite credit” then i don’t even know about that. Burrows headset went out against Ten so he called that whole last drive by himself. We don’t know how many calls are Zac’s calls and how many have been changed by Burrow.



As Zac’s biggest hater I’ll admit….he’s a great leader. His speeches make ME want to run through a wall for him.

He seems to have changed the culture by himself which is impressive.


He’s just not that guy as a OC. This is fine i just wish he’d pass it off. But there is absolutely not enough evidence pointing to Zac being good for 90% of the replies in this thread to be sarcastically making fun of the OP for questioning Zac.



Shit like this makes me wonder about a theory i had years ago, that some of you guys are paid by the team to post here and kinda keep things “calm”.


Y’all defending Zac like he’s been making playoffs for 10 years or something

And I agree with that. He does seem to have changed the culture. The post game speeches seem good. Community relations and taking the game balls to the bars, etc was cool.

But yeah...the scheme/playcalling seems weak. Struggling against Cover 2 is crazy.

Another argument people use is 'No one could win with this line.' Well the line has changed over almost totally with guys that have had success elsewhere. I'd argue that the playcalls put them in a poor position to succeed.

Also, IF Andy Dalton is our QB last year, do we go to the SB?

The NFL is the ultimate worst to 1st league. The fact that the Bengals had 0 playoff success for 30 years is just crazy. I had a post detailing that. Most teams have won 5+ playoff games since our last playoff win (prior to last year.) Only a small amount hadn't. I think the Steelers and Ravens had close to 30 playoff wins. It was somewhere in the 20's.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-02-2022, 09:57 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And I agree with that. He does seem to have changed the culture. The post game speeches seem good. Community relations and taking the game balls to the bars, etc was cool.

But yeah...the scheme/playcalling seems weak. Struggling against Cover 2 is crazy.

Another argument people use is 'No one could win with this line.' Well the line has changed over almost totally with guys that have had success elsewhere. I'd argue that the playcalls put them in a poor position to succeed.

Also, IF Andy Dalton is our QB last year, do we go to the SB?

The NFL is the ultimate worst to 1st league. The fact that the Bengals had 0 playoff success for 30 years is just crazy. I had a post detailing that. Most teams have won 5+ playoff games since our last playoff win (prior to last year.) Only a small amount hadn't. I think the Steelers and Ravens had close to 30 playoff wins. It was somewhere in the 20's.

If Andy was the QB, HE'D be getting the blame. There's always gotta be a scapegoat.....

[*PhilHos*]

(11-02-2022, 08:58 AM)Housh Wrote: I just find it hilarious no one but 1 person named any actual shit Zac does to win. Everyone else is like “he existed on a team that won playoff games.”

You do realize that Zac is the one that primarily put this team together, right? Zac decided who to cut/let go and worked with the front office to draft and sign players. Whether or not Zac is good at playcalling (and I'm on the side of 'not'), it's still his playbook that Burrow and Chase are using to make plays. Zac is the one that hired Lou and the coaching staff.

And the fact is that he didn't just "exist on a team that won a playoff game." He COACHED the team to a Super Bowl. It was his and Lou's gameplans and in-game adjustments that allowed Burrow and Chase and the defense to lead us to wins int he playoffs and almost got us a win in the Super Bowl.

(11-02-2022, 09:57 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Also, IF Andy Dalton is our QB last year, do we go to the SB?

Of course not. Let me ask you this: how many Super Bowl wins does Bill Belichick have without Tom Brady as his QB? 

[THE PISTONS]

(11-02-2022, 10:11 AM)PhilHos Wrote: You do realize that Zac is the one that primarily put this team together, right? Zac decided who to cut/let go and worked with the front office to draft and sign players. Whether or not Zac is good at playcalling (and I'm on the side of 'not'), it's still his playbook that Burrow and Chase are using to make plays. Zac is the one that hired Lou and the coaching staff.

And the fact is that he didn't just "exist on a team that won a playoff game." He COACHED the team to a Super Bowl. It was his and Lou's gameplans and in-game adjustments that allowed Burrow and Chase and the defense to lead us to wins int he playoffs and almost got us a win in the Super Bowl.


Of course not. Let me ask you this: how many Super Bowl wins does Bill Belichick have without Tom Brady as his QB? 

How can anyone know who put this team together? So Zac is the GM now too? <-- I like how the board uses this now to defend Zac.

When we made the playoffs with Marvin it was Katie who changed things.

I know that Zac's 1st year here they signed scrubs from former teams of theirs.

[Bengalbug]

(11-02-2022, 10:17 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: How can anyone know who put this team together? So Zac is the GM now too? <-- I like how the board uses this now to defend Zac.

When we made the playoffs with Marvin it was Katie who changed things.

I know that Zac's 1st year here they signed scrubs from former teams of theirs.

Katie and Duke have been constants for 20 years now. Only once Zac arrived did internal changes start to happen. I’m addition to the roster overhaul they got a practice bubble that everyone had been clamoring for, for decades.

Is Zac a good play caller? No, not especially. Does he overcomplicate the offense, yes. Should he hand off play calling duties? Yea!!

I don’t see many people defending this take. But as a head coach, and all the responsibilities that come with that, he has done a good job. It would
Just be nice for him to swallow his pride so he can focus on everything but OC duties.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-01-2022, 11:06 PM)JumboTron Wrote: These threads are getting worse by the hour.  Sunday can't get here soon enough.

To be fair, wins against the Panthers and Steelers, both teams who have thrown in the towel already, won't (or shouldn't) really change peoples' minds about the outcome of this season.

It's going to start with the Thanksgiving Weekend game @ TEN.

[Bengalbug]

(11-02-2022, 10:25 AM)ochocincos Wrote: To be fair, wins against the Panthers and Steelers, both teams who have thrown in the towel already, won't (or shouldn't) really change peoples' minds about the outcome of this season.

It's going to start with the Thanksgiving Weekend game @ TEN.

If they do to the panthers what they did to the falcons, this board will be Super Bowl bound again. That’s just the way it is.

[*Go Cards*]

Percentages ?

Zac has taken the Bengals to the SB 100% of the times he has been in the playoffs.

For years people said the playoff wins was all that counted and screw regular season, ask Carson, Andy, and Marvin.

Besides he has already signed a 5 year extension and is going nowhere. So to me it's better to try of think of solutions like bring in a OC or whatever than just constantly ***** and moan.

Not happy right now after Browns game or the start of the season either. Yet the story is not finished and our top players are injured and some are obviously playing poorly.

Don't recall any of the critics warning us about how bad Jonah would play this year, or wanting him cut or traded in off season. Or that Evan McPhearson would come down to earth and be a mere mortal, or Burrow would look lost at beginning of season after surgery. Heck said all spring to draft a stud RB and not one person agreed back then saying we were fine with Mixon. Don't think Zac saw these things coming either, just like we didn't.

Certainly Zac could be doing better, but there is plenty of blame to go around and Pollack seems like the coach doing the worst imo.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-02-2022, 10:17 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: How can anyone know who put this team together? So Zac is the GM now too? <-- I like how the board uses this now to defend Zac.

Well, as someone who's been a Bengal fan since 1991 (basically Mike Brown's entire tenure), I know for a fact that HC in Cincinnati have also had to be scouts and GMs. Brown has had his input, sure, but clearly, it's been incumbent upon the HC on who is going to be drafted. And since MB never used free agency, HC's didn't need to do that. Clearly, now that we are using free agency to SOME degree the HC is going to have his say.

Wait, do you honestly think the front office signs people without the coaches' input? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! 

Wait, let me guess: the Bengals won last year IN SPITE of Zac, right?  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!  

[MileHighGrowler]

The biggest thing Zac has done is a massive culture shift. So far, in all of the bad seasons, the players don't seem to be turning on each other. They play together, they play with heart, they're humble. I don't think Zac "made" them that way, I think it's the guys he's stressed they bring into the org. That kind of cohesiveness is hard to find and hard to form. It's the reason they were able to bounce back last year and make the SB run after the 2 seasons prior. It's the reason I fully expect them to get up for the game this Sunday.

I've had my gripes with Zac since the beginning as a HC who lets hubris get in the way, and won't let others who are better than him make the play calls and build the offensive scheme. I think he's got too much on his plate as a HC to do both jobs well. Plus, he's dug himself into a hole by not being able to make a change during the offseason at OC with any ease since he's playing two roles. Again, hubris. I think that's been his undoing since he's been with the team.

But you can't deny that this team is vastly different in mentality and morale since he joined the org, and I think it's just as important to highlight his positive contributions as it is to look at areas for improvement.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-02-2022, 10:29 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: If they do to the panthers what they did to the falcons, this board will be Super Bowl bound again.  That’s just the way it is.

I guess some might, but not me.

People shouldn't get all hopeful because they beat a team they should.
Panthers traded away Robbie Anderson and Christian McCaffrey.
They are on their third QB.
They fired their HC.
They are 2-6.

Beat some of the contender teams like they did in December last year and I'll start becoming hopeful again.

[*rfaulk34*]

Hold up. Before i reply, i need to axt a question. 

So, all the "good" coaches won playoff games and super bowls with average to bad players? I need to understand what type of team they had in order to win those games before i can reply if Zac deserves any credit or not cause if they had really good QBs, then they were just ridin' the coattails. 

But i dont' wanna jump the gun just yet, so to speak. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-02-2022, 10:17 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: How can anyone know who put this team together? So Zac is the GM now too? <-- I like how the board uses this now to defend Zac.

When we made the playoffs with Marvin it was Katie who changed things.

I know that Zac's 1st year here they signed scrubs from former teams of theirs.

Duke Tobin and Mike Brown and family have been around for a while. I'd say the people that built this team are the same people that have been building the team for a couple decades.

Having a QB like Burrow and the FA hits over the last couple years, as well as some good drafted players are things all good teams do (or run into) from time to time. The thing anyone really doesn't know is, what any other coach could/would do with this team. It's all conjecture because you're NOT going to get Belichick or Reid or anyone else who's already established and with another team. 

This isn't rocket surgery. 

[impactplaya]

Which statement is more true

Great players can succeed with a average coach
Or a great coach can win average players

[lostpoet2]

“He’s a good HC” is just code for “he’s a bad OC.” He’s uncreative and nepotistic, which is why the Brown family feels comfortable with him.

All that being said, I think Lou is a really good coach.

[Whatever]

(11-02-2022, 08:58 AM)Housh Wrote: I just find it hilarious no one but 1 person named any actual shit Zac does to win. Everyone else is like “he existed on a team that won playoff games.”

So we’re really about to act like the players didn’t play out their ass for those playoff wins? What’s the playoff game where you can say “Jesus Zac really won them that one”?


Against Raiders Burrow and Pratt saved us.

Against Tennessee Ryan Tannehill being trash along with Burrow and McPherson saved us.

Against Chiefs Burrow and Jamarr Chase went absolutely insane. Zac’s poor coaching got us in a 21-3 hole early. McPherson saved him again.


If you are gonna say “well Zac called the plays that worked so well so give him satellite credit” then i don’t even know about that. Burrows headset went out against Ten so he called that whole last drive by himself. We don’t know how many calls are Zac’s calls and how many have been changed by Burrow.



As Zac’s biggest hater I’ll admit….he’s a great leader. His speeches make ME want to run through a wall for him.

He seems to have changed the culture by himself which is impressive.


He’s just not that guy as a OC. This is fine i just wish he’d pass it off. But there is absolutely not enough evidence pointing to Zac being good for 90% of the replies in this thread to be sarcastically making fun of the OP for questioning Zac.



Shit like this makes me wonder about a theory i had years ago, that some of you guys are paid by the team to post here and kinda keep things “calm”.


Y’all defending Zac like he’s been making playoffs for 10 years or something

There's a huge issue with the argument that talent is carrying Taylor.  Last year, everyone predicted that we would be battling for the #1 overall pick, not the Lombardi.  That's based on what our talent level was evaluated at.  

Furthermore, look at the guys we lost from last year.  There are literally 3:opening day starters, two of whom started in the SB, that are out on the street right now(Hopkins, Spain, XSF).  There are two more starters(Reiff, Uzomah) that are backups.  

I don't like to be "that guy", but this board as a whole has vastly overrated our players for years.  Jessie Bates has been pimped as the second coming of Ed Reed.  Auden Tate was a "high end #2" and compared to Mike Williams and now he's clinging onto some team's practice squad.  Joe Mixon is an elite RB.  Tyler Boyd is the best slot receiver in the game.  Tee Higgins is a #1 WR on most teams in the league.  It's always coaching and 1-3 whipping boys on each unit that's keeping us from SB glory.  

[Bengalstripes9]

In defense of Taylor he has built a good team and we did make it to the Super Bowl last year.

In defense of the fans, Taylor's offenses have looked terrible against good defenses. The defense carried the team in the playoffs last year. His offense needs a lot of work to make the most of the talent at his disposal. His schemes/plays have been far too predictable and uninspiring. With the talent on this team most of us fans expected 30 points per game.

In defense of Taylor, the season isn't over yet and he can still learn how to be a good OC on this team.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-02-2022, 01:35 AM)Go Cards Wrote: He has the players believing in him and bought in even when the fans are in full revolt.

Has created a good culture as well.

He did the impossible and has the Bengals FO buying in and spending money in FA. Who would have thought this to be possible ?

By the way those FA he has selected have been pretty darn good as well. Reader, Hendrickson, Awuzie, Hurst, Karras, Cappa, Hilton, Ogunjobi to name a few and then traded for BJ Hill.  

Did anybody mention that he won the first playoff game since 1991 for the Bengals and then ran thru the playoff gauntlet while beating the Raiders, Titans, Chiefs along the way. Then almost beat the Rams who are absolutely loaded with star players and several future HOF'ers.

Still say take Whitworth off the Rams and back on Bengals and they win easily, but I digress.

Yes I think he is a good HC, but not a good OC at the present

Agree