Beating a dead horse, but.....

[Rubekahn29]

(11-02-2022, 12:51 PM)Mer Wrote: I honestly don't remember Mixon ever being a legit homerun threat. I think he believes he is, but you have to be able to break those ankle tackles to do that and he just falls down.

He’s not a home run threat. Sure, he has broken long runs (not this year) but he almost never finishes long runs into the end zone, as he constantly gets caught from behind/can’t make the last guy miss.

[higgy100]

Did any of you see the you tube video in the "Why can't you believe in Joe Mixon" thread of Mixon missing a wide open trot to the endzone or at least a 20-30 plus yard run because he took the outside instead of cutting in? Guess what? ZT called a perfect play there. Might be an entirely different game had he scored a TD there or taken that ball inside the 10. Might have caused a real stir amongst the Stain's defensive players who now realize the Bengals OL ain't that bad.

Point is there is lots of ingredients that 99% of this board has no idea that goes into both a successful and unsuccessful play. Fans see a successful play via overhead or live and believe that the entire area is open the entire game. TV does not allow us to see anything most of the time except the LOS. They don't show pre-snap motion by the D or exactly the drops the LB's are taking or the quarters/2 high S/ one-third coverages that are happening among several other things happening by the D in a 3-4 second period.

Yes, when things are going well it's all the players in most people's minds and when going bad it's the HC. These guys spend 12-15 hours a day just trying to get all the players on the same page foe just a few plays that can decide a game. They know that most of their called plays aren't going to work. They setup plays to deceive the D.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-02-2022, 10:50 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Going to Perine full time would help our predictability (wouldn't know if we're running or passing) plus when we do pass, Perine is a MUCH better pass blocker than Mixon. Sure, we would lose the home run threat, but does Mixon even have that anymore?

Mixon has never been an upper level home run threat.

In years past he would break off a couple 10-15 yard  gains every once in awhile. And a 40 yarder couple times a season. But he's never been a true take it to the house on any given play type of RB. And as others have mentioned, at this point you have to start questioning his effort. And you really have to question his effort at pass pro.

As to Williams I just don't know ? Again as others have mentioned he's serviceable vs. average and below DE's, But struggles against the upper tier guys and gets crushed by the elite !! Can you really have a LT that's going to get your QB killed in half your game a season ?

Like the OP says I'm of the opinion we start exploring options and fast.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-02-2022, 10:37 AM)Wyche Wrote: ....Jonah and Mixon have been absolutely dreadful this year. Joe Mixon may be the biggest reason for our offensive woes. His pass blocking is atrocious, and his running not much better. Conversely, Perine has not allowed a single pressure all year. Williams has not been much better than Mixon.

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2022/11/02/bengals-face-uncomfortable-problems-joe-mixon-jonah-williams/

Seriously think we need to think about starting Adeniji or D'Ante Smith over Jonah and Perine over Mixon and go RBBC.

Evans made a nice 25+yard catch on Sunday night and we never saw him again. I mean, I think there are ways that this
team can overcome the poor play of these 2 players, bench them and use Perine and the TE's to help chip the Ends and 
use Perine and Evans in the passing game with more middle RB and TE screens as an extension of the run game like the
Bills do.

This dead horse needs to be beat lol

[Bengalstripes9]

Jonah could still get better if he gets healthy. I'm not sure he'll ever be able to shut down a top 10 pass rusher though.

Mixon is a good back. He just doesn't fit into this offense. He can't block, he's not a great catcher of the ball, and he's not very quick. Yet I think he would be great with a team like the Bears, Pats, or Jets that can run out of an I formation successfully.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-02-2022, 12:58 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: He’s not a home run threat. Sure, he has broken long runs (not this year) but he almost never finishes long runs into the end zone, as he constantly gets caught from behind/can’t make the last guy miss.

That 4.43 40 time is a bit deceptive, isn't it?  If that were his true, natural speed, he'd be out running 70% of the DBs in the league, and rarely ever getting ran down from behind.

I've always had this idea that the timed 40s for the combine and pro days were a bit misleading, as those guys get lean and train like track athletes for months leading up to those testing sessions.

[Destro]

A beaten, dead horse could block better.

[Whacked]

Zac? That you?
Coach T. I have a request for ya. Will you give Evans a chance? Thank you

[WeezyBengal]

(11-02-2022, 01:16 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Did any of you see the you tube video in the "Why can't you believe in Joe Mixon" thread of Mixon missing a wide open trot to the endzone or at least a 20-30 plus yard run because he took the outside instead of cutting in? Guess what? ZT called a perfect play there. Might be an entirely different game had he scored a TD there or taken that ball inside the 10. Might have caused a real stir amongst the Stain's defensive players who now realize the Bengals OL ain't that bad.

Point is there is lots of ingredients that 99% of this board has no idea that goes into both a successful and unsuccessful play. Fans see a successful play via overhead or live and believe that the entire area is open the entire game. TV does not allow us to see anything most of the time except the LOS. They don't show pre-snap motion by the D or exactly the drops the LB's are taking or the quarters/2 high S/ one-third coverages that are happening among several other things happening by the D in a 3-4 second period.

Yes, when things are going well it's all the players in most people's minds and when going bad it's the HC. These guys spend 12-15 hours a day just trying to get all the players on the same page foe just a few plays that can decide a game. They know that most of their called plays aren't going to work. They setup plays to deceive the D.

I also saw the play where Higgins was held on the first drive which should have PI and the ball on the 10 yard line. The Garrett INT later in the drive also kept us from points. 

I also saw a play where Michael Thomas dropped a wide open chunk 25 yard pass play on the second or third drive which would have put us in FG range and extended the drive. 

I think there is a lot to be desired of in term of ZT and his play design/calling, but to blame the losses soley on that just isn't fair. 

I think there is a lot to be desired of 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-02-2022, 04:13 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I also saw the play where Higgins was held on the first drive which should have PI and the ball on the 10 yard line. The Garrett INT later in the drive also kept us from points. 

I also saw a play where Michael Thomas dropped a wide open chunk 25 yard pass play on the second or third drive which would have put us in FG range and extended the drive. 

I think there is a lot to be desired of in term of ZT and his play design/calling, but to blame the losses soley on that just isn't fair. 

I think there is a lot to be desired of 

Not to mention our suddenly unreliable kicker this year....

[TigerStripes]

What's most troubling to me is our coaching staff hasn't seemed to give it one thought to try someone else, especially Perine. Perine has had some productive carries, with limited opportunities, he's a much better blocker and he can also catch. Why not at least rotate backs multiple series and then go with the more productive back?? I'd also be curious to see if Evans' quickness could make a difference. Try something. Try anything!! Mixon has had 8 games and just looks lost and defeated.

[TheFan]

(11-02-2022, 12:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The needs are starting to pile up.

CB
TE
OT
RB

Just off the top of my head.

Don't forget WR. Although freeing up Mixons salary could probably hit 1 or 2 of those needs. I'm not sure what his cap his would be though. 

I've been a huge Mixon defender but through 8 games this year, in addition to his mediocre play last year, I'm done at this point. It's time to try something different because he clearly is not the answer and is holding the entire offense back. 

[pulses]

(11-02-2022, 12:51 PM)Mer Wrote: I honestly don't remember Mixon ever being a legit homerun threat. I think he believes he is, but you have to be able to break those ankle tackles to do that and he just falls down.

If Mixon would drop 25lbs he might be a homerun threat then. I think he's done and we should trade him in the offseason ans get what we can for him....let someone else worry about his horrible pass protection and everything else he can't do well.

[*Go Cards*]

It's never a good thing to give RB's big contracts unless they actually are elite imo. Mixon never has been elite and would never have even been drafted by Zac per punching that girl anyway.

It was a mistake paying up for him or any RB unless they're the franchise. We are stuck with him and doubt anybody will give anything for him now and will have to flat out release him to part ways most likely, and we should do so after season. Could have traded him last off season possibly and used the money elsewhere, but that ship has sailed.

Have trusted the coaches opinion on this per seeing them in practice, but it is odd they haven't benched him during a game when he's struggling to at least try and motivate him or see what they have in the other two. Had a great opportunity to do so in Browns game per being a blowout strangely stayed pat.

[*Go Cards*]

Off topic but for those who wonder if Zac or Duke is picking the players would point to Zac saying what guidelines he searches for in players. National Champions (winners), captains, and coaches sons.

Seems they lean heavily in that direction and think Zac is the one deciding, but obviously weighs in Dukes input.
Think you could also see different trends when coaches changed throughout the years imo.

Anyway back to Mixon sux this year

[IcoHolic]

At some point the excuses for Joe Mixon need to end, he's just not an elite back and there are a lot of things that he doesn't do well. I would really like to see what Perrine can do with more touches, I don't think the run game would decline... I'm also not sure it would get better either.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-03-2022, 07:18 AM)IcoHolic Wrote: At some point the excuses for Joe Mixon need to end, he's just not an elite back and there are a lot of things that he doesn't do well. I would really like to see what Perrine can do with more touches, I don't think the run game would decline... I'm also not sure it would get better either.

Good point, however it would demonstrate that the team is not willing to settle for what appears to be half hearted effort.  If player A won't hit the hole with enthusiasm, then let's see if player B understands the assignment.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-02-2022, 12:58 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: He’s not a home run threat. Sure, he has broken long runs (not this year) but he almost never finishes long runs into the end zone, as he constantly gets caught from behind/can’t make the last guy miss.

(11-02-2022, 01:21 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Mixon has never been an upper level home run threat.

Mixon has only 4 career TD rushes of 20+ yards in 1,233 carries. Basically 1 per 300 carries. He only has 1 career TD rush of >23 yards. 

(11-02-2022, 01:40 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That 4.43 40 time is a bit deceptive, isn't it?  If that were his true, natural speed, he'd be out running 70% of the DBs in the league, and rarely ever getting ran down from behind.

I've always had this idea that the timed 40s for the combine and pro days were a bit misleading, as those guys get lean and train like track athletes for months leading up to those testing sessions.

Keep in mind that Joe Mixon's numbers are from his Pro Day, not the Combine. Pro Day numbers are almost universally much faster than Combine numbers.

That's why 2021 without a Combine had so many people running outrageous 40s.

I don't know how legit it is, but personally for RBs I always like vertical jump, broad jump, and 20-yard split. Pretty sure the jumping is all about lower body strength and explosive ability, and leg strength for balance/ability to break arm tackles. 20 yards split is more about the acceleration and hitting the second level, where you can get caught by a LB or S before you can ever reach that 40 yard speed (I like 40s more for WRs and CBs) if you're a later accelerator... and I don't trust the numbers unless they're from the Combine, for a level comparison field.

(11-03-2022, 02:13 AM)Go Cards Wrote: It's never a good thing to give RB's big contracts unless they actually are elite imo.

Yup.

Even then it's kind of iffy. Just look at Jonathan Taylor. Truly elite the last 2 years, ran for 1,800 yards at 5.5ypc last year, and now... meh at best. Too volatile of a position from all three of a performance, health, and shelf-life standpoint to invest real money in.

If you have a decent/good OL and a solid scheme, you can basically plug in whomever is half-decent and have enough success to help your franchise QB.

[TecmoBengals]

Mixon has had a good Bengals career, but I think his better days are behind him. Going forward, get his contract off the books and then embrace late round RBs, maybe even a duo, that can last a few seasons without paying a big contract. The big money goes to Burrow and Chase.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-02-2022, 10:37 AM)Wyche Wrote: ....Jonah and Mixon have been absolutely dreadful this year. Joe Mixon may be the biggest reason for our offensive woes. His pass blocking is atrocious, and his running not much better. Conversely, Perine has not allowed a single pressure all year. Williams has not been much better than Mixon.

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2022/11/02/bengals-face-uncomfortable-problems-joe-mixon-jonah-williams/

Jonah's inconsistency is really puzzling.  He has seen most of these guys multiple times now.  I thought he was such a "student of the game" and has a spreadsheet on every pass rusher.   Seems like he is spending more time playing video games and eating chips.  Looks like he has put on bad weight.  

Mixon I think has hit the Zeke Elliott wall.  He doesn't have the agility, explosiveness, or overall speed to avoid today's tacklers.  They are clearly "beating the dead horse" because he is the one getting paid.  It's really disappointing.