Perine is better than Mixon

[mhbsavant]

(12-05-2022, 02:21 AM)Trademark Wrote: Seriously he deserves the starting job, this man runs hard he's like a mom tank and he's more explosive than Mixon, he kind of reminds me of Gio. I definitely think he's earned the starting job

Mixon is more gifted than Perrine...Mixon has more tools, but Perrine is filling in nicely!

[Bengalpool]

I'm gonna say what any level headed/non-hungover Bengals fan should be saying right now.

Mixon started slow, he was playing hurt. This is factual. By time he was hitting his stride and the OL was gelling, he became concussed (via Pitt naturally).

Perine has won me over BIG TIME. I was one of the little voices saying he didn't deserve blame in that final play of the SB. In fact, he could be the real reason we made the SB. His score against the Chiefs in the AFCCG was arguably the kickstart that we needed to prevail for the second time, and to advance to our first SB since '88.

So when I say the following, just know that I realize how AMAZING Perine is for us. And will continue to be down this stretch.

Starting Perine over Mixon (once healthy) is irresponsible, and honestly it reminds me of the AJ McCarron disciples that were shouting for Andy to be benched. No, I never believed once that Andy was the long term answer here. I just thought it was wishful thinking to assume the guy was going to outperform Andy out of no where. Point is, Mixon was doing well right before he got the concussion. If Perine is the answer going forward over Mixon once he returns, I hope the staff makes that switch at the appropriate time. Don't be blind, know the facts.

[CJD]

(12-05-2022, 02:24 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Stop it.

The last time Mixon played a full game he had 200+ yards and 5 TD’s.

Perine is doing a great job filling in, but some of you have short memories. Mixon is going to eat just as much (if not more) the way this OL is playing right now.

The 2nd to last time Mixon played a full game, he ran for 27 yards on 8 carries (3.4 ypc).
The 3rd to last time Mixon played a full game, he ran for 58 yards on 17 carries (3.4 ypc).

And, in that Panthers game, Perine ran it for 51 yards on 6 carries (8.5 ypc), which was a better yards per carry average than Mixon (7.0).

I don't think people's memories are as short as you think. Maybe using Mixon's one elite game (an outlier) as justification for benching Perine is the thought held by people with short memories.

I think Mixon will still be an asset to the team when he comes back, but Perine has earned more snaps even when Mixon is back. He is a much better blocker than Mixon, seems to fall forward and fight for extra yards better than Mixon, and is just as good of a receiver (or arguably better because he gets those tough yards for conversions).

[CJD]

(12-05-2022, 07:51 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: The only thing I’m worried about is our predictability and pass block pickups by Mixon when they go back to Mixon starting. If they can do more RBBC and less situational, that should help with the predictability, but I’ve seen Mixon miss too many blocks and we’ve given up 2 sacks with Perine starting. The line is obviously the main reason, but Perine usually shuts his block down if he stays in. Mixon struggles mightily in that.

This is my huge concern as well. Mixon's a liability in pass coverage. He's given up at least 3 sacks all by himself this season. That led the league by RBs back in November. Perine, on the other hand, had an 88.7 pass blocking grade at that same time, which lead the league from RBs.

Joe Mixon ranks 65th out of 67 backs with a grade of 24.3
He leads the league with 3 sacks allowed.

Joe Mixon's elusive rating (making defenders miss) is now down to 51st out of 54 backs.

His Yards After Contact average of 2.05 yards now ranks 53rd of 54 backs.

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 2, 2022

 

At the end of the day, we're a passing team first. Our run game is just a change of pace once every 2 or 3 downs just to keep the defense honest. And, in those scenarios, grinding out 4 or 5 yards is a completely acceptable play. In these two games, Perine has consistently done that where Mixon seemed to have been getting tackled for no gain far more often in every game other than the Panthers game. In the other plays (pass plays), Perine offered security for Burrow both in his blocking and his ability to chip and get out for a check down that, especially yesterday, he would usually get more yards than the play would seem to indicate through his tough running and stiff arms.

I think making Mixon the feature back again is a huge risk. We'll see what the coaches do but I hope, at a minimum, Perine is in there 50% of the time (and I'd prefer closer to 75% of the time).

[Nepa]

Cappa seems to think Perine remains as the backup:

"'Perine? He's a freaking beast,' Cappa said. 'Our backfield is really good. When you have a guy like Joe Mixon and can put in a guy like Samaje if you have to, that's crazy.'"

https://www.bengals.com/news/germaine-pratt-chris-evans-joseph-ossai-

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-05-2022, 02:21 AM)Trademark Wrote: Seriously he deserves the starting job, this man runs hard he's like a mom tank and he's more explosive than Mixon, he kind of reminds me of Gio. I definitely think he's earned the starting job

I think they are great complements and Mixon deserves more chances when healthy with this more balanced offense and improved blocking.  That is no slight to Perine.  Dude almost always seems to get at least two yards even if the play isn't there.  Runs through arm tackles.  Solid catching the ball and turning upfield immediately.  Above all else, perhaps, is his superior pass blocking in blitz pick up.  Maybe Joe is more comfortable with him in there?  I don't know.

Mixon shouldn't be demoted, but Perine has definitely earned more snaps when he returns.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-05-2022, 02:31 AM)Science Friction Wrote: If Joe continues to run as hard and angry as he did against the powerful Panthers, then yes. But I trust Sammy to run hard ALL THE TIME. He never takes a play off.  Joe doesn't have my complete trust in that capacity.

It isn't that Mixon doesn't run hard all the time, but he does seem less decisive.  Mixon will stutter and shift while Samaje just bursts in to a six inch gap, moves people, and takes what he can get.  Mixon is more dynamic, but Perine may be more decisive.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-05-2022, 09:31 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The 2nd to last time Mixon played a full game, he ran for 27 yards on 8 carries (3.4 ypc).
The 3rd to last time Mixon played a full game, he ran for 58 yards on 17 carries (3.4 ypc).

And, in that Panthers game, Perine ran it for 51 yards on 6 carries (8.5 ypc), which was a better yards per carry average than Mixon (7.0).

I don't think people's memories are as short as you think. Maybe using Mixon's one elite game (an outlier) as justification for benching Perine is the thought held by people with short memories.

I think Mixon will still be an asset to the team when he comes back, but Perine has earned more snaps even when Mixon is back. He is a much better blocker than Mixon, seems to fall forward and fight for extra yards better than Mixon, and is just as good of a receiver (or arguably better because he gets those tough yards for conversions).

If you only looked at stats, you could miss it.  The Bengals are more COMMITTED to the run game now.  They have done a great deal of self scouting.  No longer is an under center a guaranteed run, as Burrow has done a lot of play action out of that recently.  And if you think I am just using COMMITTED as an adjective that isn't really measurable, look at the Run/Pass ratio for the Atlanta game:  21 rushes and 42 passes.  In a game they led most of throughout.  Last night?  32 passes and 34 rushes.  That is commitment. 

And it could not come at a better time, given the conditions sure to change climate-wise.  

[Housh]

(12-05-2022, 02:24 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Stop it.

The last time Mixon played a full game he had 200+ yards and 5 TD’s.

Perine is doing a great job filling in, but some of you have short memories. Mixon is going to eat just as much (if not more) the way this OL is playing right now.

Idc about stats, on 12/4/22 Perine is a better running back than Joe Mixon.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-05-2022, 02:33 AM)Science Friction Wrote: I predict a bad outcome for the Browns this time around.

Agreed.  I won't overlook any team with Myles Garrett, but I could see Burrow in the post game pressor saying (smugly):  "That was good, because I didn't think I could beat the Browns".  

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-05-2022, 03:04 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: mixon is too in love with trying to juke and cut outside. Perine's style of just hitting the hole works way better

samaje isnt going down easy, and his stiff arms are unreal.

He was trying to juke because there simply wasn't any holes there early on.  Mixon has a great track record and sitting him would be like sitting Burrow after the first two games. 

I love Perine, and they should both platoon, but saying he is better than Mixon based on the past four games is just silly.  I am beyond excited to have them both healthy for the stretch run.  Competition improves the breed and I am sure joe is itching to show what he can do with less predictable run sets and an improved line.  The Carolina game should have given everyone a glimpse of what he can do with a solid line and a balanced offense.  

[2MinutesHate]

I like how Perine doesn't fall down after contact and I also love how I can't tell if it's a pass or a run when he's in there.

If Mixon loses snaps, he doesn't have anyone to blame but himself.
He's been playing long enough, learn to block.

[jj22]

I don't know why people are clutching their pearls over this thread. This isn't a hot take. It's a legit observations and worthy of board discussion. Sorry topic police. We've all saw Mixon play this year.

Panthers game doesn't change the full assessment of his year.

[Frank Booth]

(12-05-2022, 10:14 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He was trying to juke because there simply wasn't any holes there early on.  Mixon has a great track record and sitting him would be like sitting Burrow after the first two games. 

I love Perine, and they should both platoon, but saying he is better than Mixon based on the past four games is just silly.  I am beyond excited to have them both healthy for the stretch run.  Competition improves the breed and I am sure joe is itching to show what he can do with less predictable run sets and an improved line.  The Carolina game should have given everyone a glimpse of what he can do with a solid line and a balanced offense.  

Saying Perine is better than Mixon for this offense is not silly.

Perine hits the open holes and runs over guys. He takes what is there, and doesn’t get cute trying to run outside, which can result in negative yards.

Plus Perine’s pass blocking is elite for a RB. Perine is the perfect RB for this offense

[Rattler]

Go old school against the stains next week and run some 2 back sets from the '88 squad.

Mixon = James Brooks
Perine = Ickey Woods

Guessing Perrine could do a nice interpretation of the Ickey Shuffle

[KillerGoose]

(12-05-2022, 03:51 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Downplay it all you want, but the Panthers defense has guys like Brian Burns and Derrick Brown on their DL. That Panthers team has won 2 out of their last 3 games since playing us.

There’s a reason two different coaching staffs (Oklahoma and here) have made Perine the backup to Mixon.

Look, I love his running style as much as anyone. Dude is literally out there dribbling guys to the ground, but we don’t need to bench a weapon like Mixon just because Perine runs hard. The ideal scenario is to have them split carries pretty evenly - maybe slightly favoring Mixon.

Not that this matters too much for the overall point of this thread, but Mixon was the backup. Not Perine. Perine was the starter all three years he was at OU.

[*Go Cards*]

Believe it will remain a split with Mixon starting. Yet believe Perine will be getting closer to a 50/50 split now and will overtake Mixon if he comes out flat for a couple of games.But expect Mixon to be highly motivated.

Mixon is more explosive but Perine punishes defenses more so and blocks way better. Glad he changed his style into a punisher unlike last season when he was trying to juke people. It fits his style much better and may make I'm unaffordable next season if another team covets him.

Did anybody post the video of him stiff arming the loud mouth Reid ?

[WeezyBengal]

Some of you are acting like you forgot that Mixon had 5 TDs the game before he got hurt...

That being said, Perine deserves more reps. I'd love to use him more in short yardage situations.

I truly think Mixon was hurt the first quarter of the season. He continually came out of games because of his ankle.

Just use each guy as the situation dictates. Mixon on early and pass catching downs. Perine on short yardage and blocking downs.

Also, you better believe the competition and emergence of Perine will push Mixon. He saw Perine get that game ball yesterday and he knows there's competition.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-05-2022, 09:44 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: This is my huge concern as well. Mixon's a liability in pass coverage. He's given up at least 3 sacks all by himself this season. That led the league by RBs back in November. Perine, on the other hand, had an 88.7 pass blocking grade at that same time, which lead the league from RBs.

Joe Mixon ranks 65th out of 67 backs with a grade of 24.3
He leads the league with 3 sacks allowed.

Joe Mixon's elusive rating (making defenders miss) is now down to 51st out of 54 backs.

His Yards After Contact average of 2.05 yards now ranks 53rd of 54 backs.

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 2, 2022

 

At the end of the day, we're a passing team first. Our run game is just a change of pace once every 2 or 3 downs just to keep the defense honest. And, in those scenarios, grinding out 4 or 5 yards is a completely acceptable play. In these two games, Perine has consistently done that where Mixon seemed to have been getting tackled for no gain far more often in every game other than the Panthers game. In the other plays (pass plays), Perine offered security for Burrow both in his blocking and his ability to chip and get out for a check down that, especially yesterday, he would usually get more yards than the play would seem to indicate through his tough running and stiff arms.

I think making Mixon the feature back again is a huge risk. We'll see what the coaches do but I hope, at a minimum, Perine is in there 50% of the time (and I'd prefer closer to 75% of the time).

I'd probably save what tread is left on the Mixon tires and try to get a trade. I like Joe, but we could use that money if we could find a suitor.

[KillerGoose]

(12-05-2022, 10:28 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Some of you are acting like you forgot that Mixon had 5 TDs the game before he got hurt...

That being said, Perine deserves more reps. I'd love to use him more in short yardage situations.

I truly think Mixon was hurt the first quarter of the season. He continually came out of games because of his ankle.

Just use each guy as the situation dictates. Mixon on early and pass catching downs. Perine on short yardage and blocking downs.

And several others are acting like they forgot that Mixon was barely averaging three yards per carry and struggling to break tackles before that five TD game. And the game he got hurt in he was averaging...2.8 yards per carry. There is plenty enough evidence that the Panthers game was an outlier - so far. I don't want Mixon benched completely, but I have long been banging the drum that Perine could replace Mixon and the change in production would hardly be noticeable. Mixon isn't a special back, he is just a fan favorite.