Mahomes is obviously a great QB. Yet so is Joe "Freakin" Burrow, who beats him in every single category with arguably a way worse O-line in the majority these games. Possibly worse O-line in all of them, but certainly only in the last game can this argument be made against the fact.
Oh by the way he is 3-0 against him too.
Not trying tp rehash the argument on whether we should have went for it or not per have accepted a long time ago this is our style. Don't always agree but that's ok, I'm just a layman.
Just want everybody to start putting Joe on equal footing with all the elite QB's in the league, because he is.
Heck if Joe and Mahomes were put in prison together tomorrow ? Joe would have Patrick in a dress and pig tails and pimping him out for cigarettes in 10 minutes flat. He owns him.
Joe Burrow is the Man !
The water tastes funny when you're far from your home,
yet it's only the thirsty that hunger to roam. Roam the Jungle !
I think Mahomes' big advantage over Joe recently was his ability to extend the play and then feast off of busted coverages with Hill and his other receivers...but I think that gap has closed a bit. Joe has shown this year that he can get outside the pocket and move pretty well to extend the play as well. Their rush TDs and yards are pretty similar.
If I had to pick one to start a team today I'd pick Burrow, and that's not just my bias at play. I really do think he is the better overall pure QB. More accurate, can read a defense better, better decision maker, smarter. Mahomes has a stronger arm and is still more mobile, but that can only take you so far on the regular.
Though I think we obviously deserved to win last years games, this last game was the first time I felt like we controlled the game and we’re just overall better. Shoot, we left 10 points on the field, and moved the ball at will on them. I believe we got better from last year and they got worse.
(12-09-2022, 03:33 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Though I think we obviously deserved to win last years games, this last game was the first time I felt like we controlled the game and we’re just overall better. Shoot, we left 10 points on the field, and moved the ball at will on them. I believe we got better from last year and they got worse.
I felt the same way.
The first game against the Chiefs, I feel like we mostly kept up with them on offense, granted it required a historic performance from Chase and arguably an idiotic gameplan by their defensive coordinator to do so (hint, don't put players like Fenton or Ward on Chase 1 on 1). We were down 28-17 at the half, but that's not an insurmountable second half lead, but our defense was just not doing anything to stop them and we won because of a pair of "lucky" penalties on 4th and goal (in which we would not have scored a touchdown without the penalty) that allowed us to just keep the ball and kick the field goal as time expired.
The second game, it was looking like a complete blowout; A "You don't belong here" game for our team in the first half. But then, with 1 minute left in the 2nd quarter, we got a big screen pass to Perine to get us within 11, same as the first game. Then KC drove right down the field in 1 minute to score what looked to be another touchdown to put us down 18 but Eli Apple (after a DPI in the end zone) made a great stop on a, quite frankly, dumb play by Mahomes to keep the lead only 11 and give us hope in the 2nd half.
This was paired with both games the Chiefs offense doing very little in the second half, with Mahomes throwing 2 terrible interceptions (one to BJ Hill of all people). This didn't feel sustainable or realistic to occur again and it happening in the AFCCG felt more like a miracle than a viable way of winning a game.
This third game, on the other hand, we went up 11 points early, and we could have had a 7 or 11 point lead going into the half if not for that really good play by Carlos Dunlap to stop our 4th and Goal play (which I personally did not like the play call but I understand why they thought it might work). Then there was the wide open TD drop by Boyd, a pair of dropped interceptions by our defense and a few other misplays (dropped passes and penalties) that ended drives that could have further increased our lead.
It definitely felt like we were the better team in every respect that day and they were trying to keep up with us, not the other way around.
I’m taking Burrow for his accuracy and he at least tries to stay in the pocket
Love Mahommes and feel he’s already a GOAT but he scrambles a lot when i feel it’s not needed like he’s trying to always make THE play when sometimes checking down is the way to go. Mahomes arm talent is insane so you can’t coach that. Burrow will never have that.
The way i like offense ran Burrow would be my QB. He’s a timing/accuracy guy. I feel like he’s harder to defend when he’s on.
(12-09-2022, 03:24 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think Mahomes' big advantage over Joe recently was his ability to extend the play and then feast off of busted coverages with Hill and his other receivers...but I think that gap has closed a bit. Joe has shown this year that he can get outside the pocket and move pretty well to extend the play as well. Their rush TDs and yards are pretty similar.
If I had to pick one to start a team today I'd pick Burrow, and that's not just my bias at play. I really do think he is the better overall pure QB. More accurate, can read a defense better, better decision maker, smarter. Mahomes has a stronger arm and is still more mobile, but that can only take you so far on the regular.
Agree
Early last season I was saying Mahomes is the only QB I'd take over Joe Burrow. I'm not saying that anymore.
(12-09-2022, 03:01 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Off D vs Mahomes >>>> Chief's D vs Burrow
This times 1000. This is why I think the week own the Chiefs narrative is a little over blown. I think our defense has been better than the Chiefs D and that's the biggest factor.
Mahomes is obviously a great QB. Yet so is Joe "Freakin" Burrow, who beats him in every single category with arguably a way worse O-line in the majority these games. Possibly worse O-line in all of them, but certainly only in the last game can this argument be made against the fact.
Oh by the way he is 3-0 against him too.
Not trying tp rehash the argument on whether we should have went for it or not per have accepted a long time ago this is our style. Don't always agree but that's ok, I'm just a layman.
Just want everybody to start putting Joe on equal footing with all the elite QB's in the league, because he is.
Heck if Joe and Mahomes were put in prison together tomorrow ? Joe would have Patrick in a dress and pig tails and pimping him out for cigarettes in 10 minutes flat. He owns him.
Joe Burrow is the Man !
I wanted the field goal at the time and especially after we turned it over on downs. My line of thinking was if your down against the Chiefs or tied go for the TD to try and keep pace. But if you have the lead just take the points. But after thinking about the game I've changed my mind. If we fail to pick up the 1st which we did at worst we go into the 2nd half an even game. But if we convert and score a TD the Chiefs might be in too big a hole to climb out. That might be just to good of an opportunity to pass up.
Mahomes is more flashy and sneaky fast, Allen is a Yeti running the ball with a great arm to boot. Each are elite and there is no knock on them really.
Yet Burrow is the blue collar QB type I want to see leading my team. He just gets it done.
Mahomes never even has broke 300 yds passing agains the Bengals yet. Believe 275 was the closest he came. Certain bengals will see him again in a month and need to do it to him again.
The water tastes funny when you're far from your home,
yet it's only the thirsty that hunger to roam. Roam the Jungle !
I think Mahomes is a generational arm talent. His ceiling is the moon. Idk if there's ever been a better arm in the history of the league.
Burrow has good arm talent, but his best attribute is his decision making and ability to process and diagnose quickly and correctly. Lately in particular, he always seems to have the right answer no matter what the defense throws at him.
If I had to pick between the two, I'm taking Joe. That kind of gift doesn't come along often, and it ages very well. A guy like that can play at an elite level for 15 plus seasons. His physical decline doesn't take away his most dangerous skill. There's not a single quarterback in the league I would trade him for.
I think we as Bengal fans need to start getting comfortable with the notion that the best quarterback on the planet is a Bengal.
(12-09-2022, 04:10 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I felt the same way.
The first game against the Chiefs, I feel like we mostly kept up with them on offense, granted it required a historic performance from Chase and arguably an idiotic gameplan by their defensive coordinator to do so (hint, don't put players like Fenton or Ward on Chase 1 on 1). We were down 28-17 at the half, but that's not an insurmountable second half lead, but our defense was just not doing anything to stop them and we won because of a pair of "lucky" penalties on 4th and goal (in which we would not have scored a touchdown without the penalty) that allowed us to just keep the ball and kick the field goal as time expired.
The second game, it was looking like a complete blowout; A "You don't belong here" game for our team in the first half. But then, with 1 minute left in the 2nd quarter, we got a big screen pass to Perine to get us within 11, same as the first game. Then KC drove right down the field in 1 minute to score what looked to be another touchdown to put us down 18 but Eli Apple (after a DPI in the end zone) made a great stop on a, quite frankly, dumb play by Mahomes to keep the lead only 11 and give us hope in the 2nd half.
This was paired with both games the Chiefs offense doing very little in the second half, with Mahomes throwing 2 terrible interceptions (one to BJ Hill of all people). This didn't feel sustainable or realistic to occur again and it happening in the AFCCG felt more like a miracle than a viable way of winning a game.
This third game, on the other hand, we went up 11 points early, and we could have had a 7 or 11 point lead going into the half if not for that really good play by Carlos Dunlap to stop our 4th and Goal play (which I personally did not like the play call but I understand why they thought it might work). Then there was the wide open TD drop by Boyd, a pair of dropped interceptions by our defense and a few other misplays (dropped passes and penalties) that ended drives that could have further increased our lead.
It definitely felt like we were the better team in every respect that day and they were trying to keep up with us, not the other way around.
Which was an awesome feeling.
My thoughts exactly. We were the ones doing dumb stuff on 4th and dropping TDs to keep them in the game (though they dropped one as well).
(12-09-2022, 10:27 PM)samhain Wrote: I think Mahomes is a generational arm talent. His ceiling is the moon. Idk if there's ever been a better arm in the history of the league.
Burrow has good arm talent, but his best attribute is his decision making and ability to process and diagnose quickly and correctly. Lately in particular, he always seems to have the right answer no matter what the defense throws at him.
If I had to pick between the two, I'm taking Joe. That kind of gift doesn't come along often, and it ages very well. A guy like that can play at an elite level for 15 plus seasons. His physical decline doesn't take away his most dangerous skill. There's not a single quarterback in the league I would trade him for.
I think we as Bengal fans need to start getting comfortable with the notion that the best quarterback on the planet is a Bengal.
Agree completely
The water tastes funny when you're far from your home,
yet it's only the thirsty that hunger to roam. Roam the Jungle !
(12-09-2022, 10:27 PM)samhain Wrote: I think Mahomes is a generational arm talent. His ceiling is the moon. Idk if there's ever been a better arm in the history of the league.
Burrow has good arm talent, but his best attribute is his decision making and ability to process and diagnose quickly and correctly. Lately in particular, he always seems to have the right answer no matter what the defense throws at him.
If I had to pick between the two, I'm taking Joe. That kind of gift doesn't come along often, and it ages very well. A guy like that can play at an elite level for 15 plus seasons. His physical decline doesn't take away his most dangerous skill. There's not a single quarterback in the league I would trade him for.
I think we as Bengal fans need to start getting comfortable with the notion that the best quarterback on the planet is a Bengal.
Yep.
I said to myself early in his rookie season, but didn't want to say it here to jinx him . . . he reminds me of Larry Bird.
Both have/had players at their position that were physically stronger and faster than them, but they were all still a step behind the intelligence, the cold blooded confidence and the amazing touch on the ball of the GOAT.
I want to make this clear . . . I ****ing hated Larry Bird. I'm a Sixers and Dr J fan that accused his fans of only liking him because he was white. I lived in denial as I watched that MFer cut my teams heart out several times every season. I was wrapped up in the physical flair of the game "Dr J can do this and that and Bird can't even touch any of it", much like people are with Allen and Mahomes and their freakish arm strength. I didn't see what was right in front of me the whole time. Larry Bird was a ruthless assassin that won with his mind just as much as he won with his body. When he went on the floor for the Dream Team as a battered shell of what he was in his prime, I got to root for him for the first time. God, he was awesome. Just incredibly gifted with almost always being a step ahead of everybody else.
Watch these and see how many times you think of Burrow's approach or mentality. All of the greats have it.
Love this one. I've seen lots of reactions to it. Really well done.
And of course his legendary trash talking, more about confidence and mental games. Not really like Joe, but Joe will let a press room know after a game when he was a little irritated by something that someone had said.
It feels dumb to start comparing him to all-time greats, but it's definitely something I impulsively do. My wife asked me what I thought of him after they won vs the Titans in his rookie season. I told her he was Tom Brady remade and it felt ignorant, but not quite completely off target.
If you look at what he's doing 40 games into his career, the argument is interesting. Brady had the privilege of growing into the league on a roster with the best defense and defensive coach in the league to prop him up. On offense, they were a running team personality-wise. By the time Brady became god-level goat Brady, he'd already won 2 or 3 titles while he was figuring things out. Burrow has grown up with a very young and previously unsuccessful coach, a very bad offensive line up to about 5 weeks ago, and a defense that was in no way established when he arrived here.
His success is largely a product of his singular impact. He wasn't so much nurtured and developed by the existing culture. He came here and the culture became great because OF him. That's massive. Herbert and Tua are great and so is Hurts, but I don't think any of those guys were capable of doing what Burrow has done to impact the overall demeanor of an organization. Tua was babied and protected due to injury and Herbert hasn't shown he can carry a depleted roster. Hurts took 2 seasons to develop into what he is now. Burrow made a difference the minute he logged on to virtual meetings during covid. The entire makeup and mentality changed around him. It's unreal to watch.
I said to myself early in his rookie season, but didn't want to say it here to jinx him . . . he reminds me of Larry Bird.
Both have/had players at their position that were physically stronger and faster than them, but they were all still a step behind the intelligence, the cold blooded confidence and the amazing touch on the ball of the GOAT.
I want to make this clear . . . I ****ing hated Larry Bird. I'm a Sixers and Dr J fan that accused his fans of only liking him because he was white. I lived in denial as I watched that MFer cut my teams heart out several times every season. I was wrapped up in the physical flair of the game "Dr J can do this and that and Bird can't even touch any of it", much like people are with Allen and Mahomes and their freakish arm strength. I didn't see what was right in front of me the whole time. Larry Bird was a ruthless assassin that won with his mind just as much as he won with his body. When he went on the floor for the Dream Team as a battered shell of what he was in his prime, I got to root for him for the first time. God, he was awesome. Just incredibly gifted with almost always being a step ahead of everybody else.
Watch these and see how many times you think of Burrow's approach or mentality. All of the greats have it.
Love this one. I've seen lots of reactions to it. Really well done.
And of course his legendary trash talking, more about confidence and mental games. Not really like Joe, but Joe will let a press room know after a game when he was a little irritated by something that someone had said.
I had Dr J's autograph at least 20 times on Ky Colonels programs when he played in the ABA. He was a very cool guy towards kids as well as one of the greatest players Ive ever watched play.
Of course they got tossed out after I moved out of my parents house along with my baseball cards lol.
The water tastes funny when you're far from your home,
yet it's only the thirsty that hunger to roam. Roam the Jungle !
(12-10-2022, 10:02 AM)samhain Wrote: It feels dumb to start comparing him to all-time greats, but it's definitely something I impulsively do. My wife asked me what I thought of him after they won vs the Titans in his rookie season. I told her he was Tom Brady remade and it felt ignorant, but not quite completely off target.
If you look at what he's doing 40 games into his career, the argument is interesting. Brady had the privilege of growing into the league on a roster with the best defense and defensive coach in the league to prop him up. On offense, they were a running team personality-wise. By the time Brady became god-level goat Brady, he'd already won 2 or 3 titles while he was figuring things out. Burrow has grown up with a very young and previously unsuccessful coach, a very bad offensive line up to about 5 weeks ago, and a defense that was in no way established when he arrived here.
His success is largely a product of his singular impact. He wasn't so much nurtured and developed by the existing culture. He came here and the culture became great because OF him. That's massive. Herbert and Tua are great and so is Hurts, but I don't think any of those guys were capable of doing what Burrow has done to impact the overall demeanor of an organization. Tua was babied and protected due to injury and Herbert hasn't shown he can carry a depleted roster. Hurts took 2 seasons to develop into what he is now. Burrow made a difference the minute he logged on to virtual meetings during covid. The entire makeup and mentality changed around him. It's unreal to watch.
Agree that Brady is the one I think of when comparing now that Joe has learned to process and deliver the ball quickly and efficiently.
Just hope he has half the success and longevity as Brady. He is already cooler in my book.
The water tastes funny when you're far from your home,
yet it's only the thirsty that hunger to roam. Roam the Jungle !
(12-09-2022, 03:01 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Off D vs Mahomes >>>> Chief's D vs Burrow
Exactly. It is a team sport no matter how much the NFL and ESPN like to say it is QB matchups. Remember how many times Baker Mayfield beat the Bengals even when Burrow had become our QB? The defense they had back then sucked compared to now. Didn't mean Baker was better than Burrow.
Also hard to say "We only beat team X by 3 and they beat team X by 21. Matchups in games are so different from team to team.
(12-09-2022, 03:33 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Though I think we obviously deserved to win last years games, this last game was the first time I felt like we controlled the game and we’re just overall better. Shoot, we left 10 points on the field, and moved the ball at will on them. I believe we got better from last year and they got worse.
Same here. Said before the game the same thing, they lost Tyreek Hill while we just got better in nearly every aspect this Offseason.
Great job by the FO, Zac and the coaches just building on the great foundation they laid.
Agree with Go Cards too BTW, and thanks for the stats. Burrow has been better in the matchup by a margin, not wide, but a margin.
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