What if?

[TheCincinnatiKid]

(01-04-2023, 12:59 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Definitely a unique scenario.

I also think the fact that it's the NFL and there is history of violent discussion (concussions, etc.) changes the narrative.  Sadly, I think like 10 people of died in professional soccer due to similar situations and the show goes on.  Not that it's the right thing to do but the NFL is looked upon differently.

There is no way that game should have been completed Monday night, but I do believe it should be resumed prior to the actual playoffs due to all of the impacts.

In terms of professional soccer/football, this exact topic has gained enormous traction due to the Christian Eriksen cardiac arrest. In England, there has been greater awareness about the need for defibs etc at grounds, and the relevant medical staff being present at all games (where possible, the English Football League Pyramid is enormous).

In Eriksen's case, the show 'did go on' (a few hours later), but he had been giving a thumbs up to the crowd on his stretcher out of the ground. So it did seem as if there would be a positive ending there. 

The better comparison to this, would be the Fabrice Muamba heart attack. Think he stopped breathing for 78 minutes, no clear sign on the day that he would survive it (AFAIK). The game was abandoned and wasn't played for another 10 days. Bolton (Muamba's team) played 7 days later, Tottenham (the opponents) played a game again 4 days later. A bit different though as the game isn't as violent, and the football/soccer schedule does usually keep a few midweek spots free for rearranged games.

I agree with your last bit, ideally. I think most do.

[Science Friction]

RULE 17 :

ARTICLE 10. POSTSEASON INTERRUPTION
If an emergency interrupts a postseason game and such game cannot be resumed on that same date, the Commissioner will make every effort to arrange for its completion as soon as possible. If unable to schedule the game at the same site, the Commissioner will select an appropriate alternate site. The Commissioner will terminate the game short of completion only, if in the Commissioner’s judgment, the continuation of the game would not be normally expected to alter the ultimate result.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-04-2023, 01:15 PM)Science Friction Wrote: RULE 17 :

ARTICLE 10. POSTSEASON INTERRUPTION
If an emergency interrupts a postseason game and such game cannot be resumed on that same date, the Commissioner will make every effort to arrange for its completion as soon as possible. If unable to schedule the game at the same site, the Commissioner will select an appropriate alternate site. The Commissioner will terminate the game short of completion only, if in the Commissioner’s judgment, the continuation of the game would not be normally expected to alter the ultimate result.

that covers postseason but not this game

[Mickeypoo]

(01-04-2023, 12:17 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Nobody inside that stadium (players, coaches and fans alike) looked like they had it in them for a game to take place.  

I understand this, but now look at the mess that is created and how many people could be effected because highly paid, elite pro athletes couldn't suck it up and finish the game.  Nothing they do or don't do effects Hamlin and his health.  If he was truly gone forever I would have a different opinion, but he was alive and getting the best care.

I'm really not trying to be cold, it's just that sometimes crappy things happen and you need to do what needs to be done.  In this case finish the game.  Regular people keep working through awful situations every single day.

[Big Boss]

(01-04-2023, 01:37 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I understand this, but now look at the mess that is created and how many people could be effected because highly paid, elite pro athletes couldn't suck it up and finish the game.  Nothing they do or don't do effects Hamlin and his health.  If he was truly gone forever I would have a different opinion, but he was alive and getting the best care.

I'm really not trying to be cold, it's just that sometimes crappy things happen and you need to to what needs to be done.  In this case finish the game.  Regular people keep working through awful situations every single day.

You may not be trying to be cold, but it does come across that way, Mickey.  Sorry.

These guys are teammates, friends, sometimes almost brothers.  They spend more time with each other during the season than they probably do with their own families.  Put yourself in their shoes.  You stand by helplessly watching while your best friend is revived from death, in critical condition, then after they're loaded into an ambulance you're asked to go back to work with complete and total focus on your job.  As if nothing happened.  If you're honestly going to sit there and tell me that you'd be able to do that no problem, then I'm honestly going to call it a lie.  I get it.  Projecting mental and emotional resilience no matter what circumstance sounds cool and all, but I'm not buying it here.  Definitely not selling it either. If I watched my best friend get his heart resuscitated and then he was driven off to a hospital and I had no idea what was going to happen to him, I'm not focusing on anything else.  Doesn't matter what profession I'm in.    

They're human beings that witnessed a traumatic event.  That supersedes whatever "mess" the NFL is left to navigate.   

[Mickeypoo]

(01-04-2023, 01:50 PM)Big Boss Wrote: You may not be trying to be cold, but it does come across that way, Mickey.  Sorry.

These guys are teammates, friends, sometimes almost brothers.  They spend more time with each other during the season than they probably do with their own families.  Put yourself in their shoes.  You stand by helplessly watching while your best friend is revived from death, in critical condition, then after they're loaded into an ambulance you're asked to go back to work with complete and total focus on your job.  As if nothing happened.  If you're honestly going to sit there and tell me that you'd be able to do that no problem, then I'm honestly going to call it a lie.  I get it.  Projecting mental and emotional resilience no matter what circumstance sounds cool and all, but I'm not buying it here.  Definitely not selling it either.  If I watched my best friend get his heart resuscitated and then he was driven off to a hospital and I had no idea what was going to happen to him, I'm not focusing on anything else.  Doesn't matter what profession I'm in.    

They're human beings that witnessed a traumatic event.  That supersedes whatever "mess" the NFL is left to navigate.   

Ya, sorry, I know it sounds cold.  I understand your opinion.  I'm not trying to sound cool or tough.  I have been through enough situations in my life to know what my mental capabilities are in tough situations.

[Big Boss]

(01-04-2023, 01:58 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Ya, sorry, I know it sounds cold.  I understand your opinion.  I'm not trying to sound cool or tough.  I have been through enough situations in my life to know what my mental capabilities are in tough situations.

Well sure, I understand.  I would also stress, though, that not everybody is you.  That's where empathy comes into play.  Trying to understand and respect another person's responses towards their own life experiences.

A lot of these NFL players are in their early-to-mid-twenties, and I'd wager most of them simply have never witnessed anything quite like this before.  All the money in the world doesn't take away the genuine shell-shock of seeing something like that so suddenly and to someone you care about.  

[Rubekahn29]

(01-04-2023, 01:09 PM)SladeX Wrote: If it was my crew member I would. First of all the trip would be cancelled and I would go home. Another crew would get called. I might have to finish up (secure the train), but that would be it. As for OS time (critical incident), I’ve shot my union guy a text, haven’t heard back, but I would bet $100 we could.

NFL players need to be able to focus for their safety and the safety of the other players. They carry on 99.9% of the time. This was an extreme situation. I’m speaking from personal experience, where I thought we had killed some people. Blame doesn’t enter into it, the fact that they pulled in front of us doesn’t matter. I highly doubt Tee was in any shape to continue, but I don’t know because I don’t live in his head, either. Some people are able to compartmentalize in the moment. Some aren’t.

It’s not unfathomable to continue (did I say that?), but it’s not for the best. In military/life or death situations of course you go on, but guess what? Those situations can take an extreme toll. In an office setting (which i am also familiar with), or clinical setting I can see going on. I can also see a wise supervisor at least adking if you need to take day. 

Sorry, I wasn’t really insinuating you were saying it was unfathomable, more so in general reaction I’ve seen.

[Science Friction]

(01-04-2023, 01:21 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: that covers postseason but not this game

THE OP was asking about what if this happened in a postseason game.

[Mickeypoo]

(01-04-2023, 02:06 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Well sure, I understand.  I would also stress, though, that not everybody is you.  That's where empathy comes into play.  Trying to understand and respect another person's responses towards their own life experiences.

A lot of these NFL players are in their early-to-mid-twenties, and I'd wager most of them simply have never witnessed anything quite like this before.  All the money in the world doesn't take away the genuine shell-shock of seeing something like that so suddenly and to someone you care about.  

Yes, I agree and I am sorry.   I have said in other posts I can certainly see the other side of things and I should have made that clear here. I was pretty pointed with my statements.

I still believe though, as highly paid, elite pro athletes who are part of a multi billion dollar system that effects huge amounts of people that they needed to be strong, come together as a team and use Hamlin as a source of power to finish the game and try to win for him.  If they needed a 2 hour delay to find focus that's fine.

Again, I would have a different opinion if he was not alive and receiving the best care.

Going back to the OP, would they have continued if the same situation happened in a playoff game? If yes, then there is no reason not to for any other game.

[Daddy-O]

(01-04-2023, 01:37 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I understand this, but now look at the mess that is created and how many people could be effected because highly paid, elite pro athletes couldn't suck it up and finish the game.  Nothing they do or don't do effects Hamlin and his health.  If he was truly gone forever I would have a different opinion, but he was alive and getting the best care.

I'm really not trying to be cold, it's just that sometimes crappy things happen and you need to do what needs to be done.  In this case finish the game.  Regular people keep working through awful situations every single day.

What does "highly paid, elite pro athletes" have to do with going back and playing a game where they just watched a teammate nearly lose his life on the field?  What part about sucking up comes into play in that situation?  Are you saying sucking up means you have no empathy because it surely doesn't have anything to do with handling physical pain?

And it's not true that regular people keep working through awful situations every day.  This isn't the 1950's-60's where the workplace was ruled with an iron fist.  I'm not sure many places would expect a close co-worker to just go back to work if they watched their friend hit the ground in front of them.  

[Essex Johnson]

(01-04-2023, 02:11 PM)Science Friction Wrote: THE OP was asking about what if this happened in a postseason game.

yes and i stated it is not the same as Bills Bengals outcome.. monday game only could impact seeding not a team advancing, big difference than a playoff game 

[*rfaulk34*]

[Mickeypoo]

(01-04-2023, 06:03 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: yes and i stated it is not the same as Bills Bengals outcome.. monday game only could impact seeding not a team advancing, big difference than a playoff game 

So are you saying it's ok to force the players to play in a playoff game if the exact same situation happened, but not ok on Monday night cause it's only seeding?

I think that if the show must go on then it goes on no matter what game and if they are going to allow postponement, then any game should be in play also.

The whole point of not playing is the emotional distress that wouldn't be any more or less depending on whether the game was for advancement or just seeding.

[BengalsRocker]

(01-04-2023, 11:37 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: They should have finished the game.  Super unpopular opinion for sure, but it's what I think should have happened.

Delay the game, find out situation.  He was at hospital and alive.  Suck it up and finish game.

Could you have imagined how ugly that would've been if players refused to play or lashed out in resistance?

[Mickeypoo]

(01-04-2023, 10:26 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Could you have imagined how ugly that would've been if players refused to play or lashed out in resistance?

Ya, you are right.  I have changed my stance on that thought process.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-04-2023, 09:58 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: So are you saying it's ok to force the players to play in a playoff game if the exact same situation happened, but not ok on Monday night cause it's only seeding?

I think that if the show must go on then it goes on no matter what game and if they are going to allow postponement, then any game should be in play also.

The whole point of not playing is the emotional distress that wouldn't be any more or less depending on whether the game was for advancement or just seeding.

I'm not saying what should happen but that regular  vs playoffs are different levels  in evaluation 

[Bengalbug]

(01-05-2023, 12:29 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I'm not saying what should happen but that regular  vs playoffs are different levels  in evaluation 

Not really, especially with what is/was at stake.

You can’t really have it be ok in one scenario and not the other. Consistency is key.

[WildCat]

(01-04-2023, 12:11 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Not sure I understand the correlation to the Buc's Super Bowl run unless I'm missing something.  Were there games during that season that resulted in a No Contest / cancelled which affected the playoff seeding giving the Buc's a competitive advantage?  That's why teams are seeded as such and playoff home games determined based on their collective accomplishments over the course of an entire football year.

many many players were not allowed to play if they tested positive during all of those games. it certainly affected the outcome of that season no?

[TheCincinnatiKid]

(01-05-2023, 12:33 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Not really, especially with what is/was at stake.

You can’t really have it be ok in one scenario and not the other.  Consistency is key.

Definitely, but the importance of the game does unfortunately have practical relevance. We wouldn't be talking about the difficulties of rescheduling here if the teams weren't so good, or if this was earlier in the season. Texans-Colts would have just been wiped from the Schedule for example. A week 5 game would just get replayed eventually. 

As much as people are unhappy with the difficulties in resolving this one, it would be even more difficult had it been a playoff game. No option to go with a No Contest/Tie there... far tougher with trying to find a time to replay the game. At least in this scenario it is possible to call it a tie or something, even if it makes people unhappy. The NFL's hands would have been even more tied had this been in the playoffs.