What is up with our passing game?

[Devils Advocate]

I mentioned this in the 'Andy thread'. They've lost their identity a bit the last two games which is getting the ball out quickly. It hides some of the deficiencies within the Oline. We need to get back to this.

[Millhouse]

(11-23-2015, 12:06 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The past two games the coaches have been hand cuffing Dalton, just like they did last year. Its either a five yard out/quick slant or a 60 yard bomb down the sideline where only the receiver has a small chance of getting it.

When the Bengals were down in the second half, that's when they finally unleashed him. He was throwing the ball down the middle of the field/all over the field, hitting different receivers, and looked great.

Not sure what the hell is going on with our offense lately. Lets stop trying to be too cute and let Andy do his thing.

This offense is lacking identity right now, imo, similar to Jay's O here. But Hues unit has better talent right now than what Jay ever had to work with (includes progression of AD & AJ), and its easier to not notice as much. It seems Hue is bent on trying to make new things work, while not hammering away with the bread & butter stuff as much as he should.

[SunsetBengal]

I said it a few weeks ago, and I'll say it again now.  Even though we won the game, Pittsburgh gave the entire league the blueprint on how to beat the Bengals.  And it is very simple, just attack the interior of the OL, and disrupt the play.  We won versus Pittsburgh, because the have a lousy secondary.  We have lost the past two games, because teams brought pressure, but had good secondary to back it up.

Can we fix the problems?  I don't know.  The Bengals favor building an offensive line from the outside in, rather than from the Center outward.  There is a reason that more teams in the NFL run a 3-4 than a 4-3, it is more effective at getting pressure and attacking hidden weaknesses on opposing OLs.

[Millhouse]

(11-23-2015, 10:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I said it a few weeks ago, and I'll say it again now.  Even though we won the game, Pittsburgh gave the entire league the blueprint on how to beat the Bengals.  And it is very simple, just attack the interior of the OL, and disrupt the play.  We won versus Pittsburgh, because the have a lousy secondary.  We have lost the past two games, because teams brought pressure, but had good secondary to back it up.

Can we fix the problems?  I don't know.  The Bengals favor building an offensive line from the outside in, rather than from the Center outward.  There is a reason that more teams in the NFL run a 3-4 than a 4-3, it is more effective at getting pressure and attacking hidden weaknesses on opposing OLs.

Sure, it's easy. Its called dumping the hell out of it to Gio until they back off. They finally called a design dumpoff to him last night on a blitz, and he scampered for a ton of yards. Once they can do that on a successful basis, teams will think twice when #25 is back there. 

[OrlandoBengal]

(11-23-2015, 04:09 PM)Wyche Wrote: I think it's combination of a lot of things to be honest.  We played a lot more power football last year....we used the Hback more....and Hill is a tick indecisive at times too.  After watching Dalton scramble all over the field the last two games, and a poor effort on the ground, I just have to lean more with the blocking than anything else.

They said during the game last night that Gio had the fifth highest ypc average in the league, while Hill has the fifth lowest.  I'm not saying that none of the blame goes to the line, but I really think Hill is the problem.  He looks extremely indecisive in my opinion.  There are times he literally stops in the hole, and even when he makes it past the first level does not seem to have nearly the burst he did last year.

[Fresno B]

(11-23-2015, 10:39 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: They said during the game last night that Gio had the fifth highest ypc average in the league, while Hill has the fifth lowest.  I'm not saying that none of the blame goes to the line, but I really think Hill is the problem.  He looks extremely indecisive in my opinion.  There are times he literally stops in the hole, and even when he makes it past the first level does not seem to have nearly the burst he did last year.

That don't stop him from celebrating like a fool at every opportunity

[*Nately120*]

(11-23-2015, 11:47 PM)Fresno B Wrote: That don't stop him from celebrating like a fool at every opportunity

I thought that was "swagger" 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-23-2015, 10:39 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: They said during the game last night that Gio had the fifth highest ypc average in the league, while Hill has the fifth lowest.  I'm not saying that none of the blame goes to the line, but I really think Hill is the problem.  He looks extremely indecisive in my opinion.  There are times he literally stops in the hole, and even when he makes it past the first level does not seem to have nearly the burst he did last year.

Yeah...like I said....it's a combination of issues.  One thing to consider....Hill is a downhill runner.  It's hard to get going when Bodine is getting his lunch handed to him.  It's what has been hindering our passing game lately too.  I keep wondering why our "all world o line coach" hasn't fixed this yet.

[fredtoast]

This is what I love about the current Bengals team.

We play a game on the road against the #3 defense in the league.  We roll up 31 pints, 24 first downs, 377 yards, score tds all four times we enter the red zone, and have great drives to come from behind........................then everyone acts like our offense is complete garbage.

We just played a great defense on the road and they were lucky to beat us.

[OrlandoBengal]

(11-24-2015, 11:12 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This is what I love about the current Bengals team.

We play a game on the road against the #3 defense in the league.  We roll up 31 pints, 24 first downs, 377 yards, score tds all four times we enter the red zone, and have great drives to come from behind........................then everyone acts like our offense is complete garbage.

We just played a great defense on the road and they were lucky to beat us.

I agree that the offense did its job, even though the line did have some problems.  We all knew that Arizona was going to put up points, especially when our defensive backs started falling like flies.  Losing the game by three points, with one second remaining, is nothing to freak out about.

[Housh]

Bodine is horrible at center and I'm tired of people Letting him off the hook but then getting on Smith like Smith is totall crap.

Ok he held out on us years ago but damn get over it

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

1. The OL was good because Dalton got the ball out the second quickest in the NFL.
2. Dalton was able to get the ball out the second quickest in the NFL because defenses were playing off the WRs.
3. The WRs are now being jammed at the line of scrimmage, and none of them are good enough to get consistent separation while being jammed.
4. Dalton has no open WRs so he can't get rid of the ball quickly.
5. The OL has to block longer, exposing them.
6. The pressure means the Bengals need to run the ball to try to relieve it.
7. Jeremy Hill is sucking something awful, but they keep giving him the ball.
8. That puts them in 2nd & Long or 3rd & Long.
9. Start back at #1.

...More or less... (plus it seems everyone lost their hands and have now decided to do body catching, which they've been dropping.)

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-25-2015, 01:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 1. The OL was good because Dalton got the ball out the second quickest in the NFL.
2. Dalton was able to get the ball out the second quickest in the NFL because defenses were playing off the WRs.
3. The WRs are now being jammed at the line of scrimmage, and none of them are good enough to get consistent separation while being jammed.
4. Dalton has no open WRs so he can't get rid of the ball quickly.
5. The OL has to block longer, exposing them.
6. The pressure means the Bengals need to run the ball to try to relieve it.
7. Jeremy Hill is sucking something awful, but they keep giving him the ball.
8. That puts them in 2nd & Long or 3rd & Long.
9. Start back at #1.

...More or less... (plus it seems everyone lost their hands and have now decided to do body catching, which they've been dropping.)

Pretty much.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-23-2015, 01:57 PM)Wyche Wrote: Bernard gets loose here and there due to his shiftiness and the ability to "get lost in the pile"....but he has been hit for losses and short gains most of the time too.  The fact that our pounder can't get going points to an o line problem to me....

Last I checked, Gio was actually 2nd in the NFL in yards per carry after contact. The whole Gio = Shifty vs Hill = Power thing is vastly overplayed.

Plus Chris Collinsworth said like three times "Jeremy Hill is by far their best blocking back" and I have no idea where he got that idea. I've seen Gio blow people up blocking and Hill get run right the hell over (including like 5 seconds after he said it). This year Gio is beating Hill in every single aspect of being a RB. Just need to give him more touches.

[fredtoast]

(11-25-2015, 01:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 1. The OL was good because Dalton got the ball out the second quickest in the NFL.
2. Dalton was able to get the ball out the second quickest in the NFL because defenses were playing off the WRs.
3. The WRs are now being jammed at the line of scrimmage, and none of them are good enough to get consistent separation while being jammed.
4. Dalton has no open WRs so he can't get rid of the ball quickly.
5. The OL has to block longer, exposing them.
6. The pressure means the Bengals need to run the ball to try to relieve it.
7. Jeremy Hill is sucking something awful, but they keep giving him the ball.
8. That puts them in 2nd & Long or 3rd & Long.
9. Start back at #1.

...More or less... (plus it seems everyone lost their hands and have now decided to do body catching, which they've been dropping.)

Dalton just put up 315 yards and a 99.8 passer rating against the #3 pass defense in the league.....on the road.



All hope is lost!  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-25-2015, 01:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Last I checked, Gio was actually 2nd in the NFL in yards per carry after contact. The whole Gio = Shifty vs Hill = Power thing is vastly overplayed.

Plus Chris Collinsworth said like three times "Jeremy Hill is by far their best blocking back" and I have no idea where he got that idea. I've seen Gio blow people up blocking and Hill get run right the hell over (including like 5 seconds after he said it). This year Gio is beating Hill in every single aspect of being a RB. Just need to give him more touches.

Yeah, he got owned on that play.  Gio has REALLY stepped up his all around game in my opinion.  He undoubtedly our best runner.  Hill?  Sophomore slump?  Wasn't that good to start with?  Something else?  Who knows?  We're all just giving opinions here.....but in my mind, there is no question Gio is more "slippery" than Hill, in fact, he may just be the "slickest" back in the league.

[fredtoast]

(11-25-2015, 01:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:  This year Gio is beating Hill in every single aspect of being a RB. Just need to give him more touches.

I am not denying that Gio is clearly playing better than Hill, but he may not be as effective if he has to carry the ball 20 times a game.  Or he may wear down over the course of the season.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-25-2015, 01:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton just put up 315 yards and a 99.8 passer rating against the #3 pass defense in the league.....on the road.



All hope is lost!  

Didn't say all hope was lost, just was saying that's most likely why he went from 5/6 of the games before the bye at over 115 QB Rating... to 3/4 of the games after the bye at under 100 QB Rating.

They keep trying to force Hill (3.3 YPC) carries, but it's not helping the offense. Just like it didn't help in 2013 when they kept forcing BJGE (3.4 YPC) the ball, thinking he would suddenly stop sucking too. Both years Gio was the better choice that they ignored and it hurt the offense. They got rid of Gruden and brought in Hue to fix it, but he's doing the exact same thing only two years later.

[fredtoast]

(11-25-2015, 01:34 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They keep trying to force Hill (3.3 YPC) carries, but it's not helping the offense. Just like it didn't help in 2013 when they kept forcing BJGE (3.4 YPC) the ball, thinking he would suddenly stop sucking too. Both years Gio was the better choice that they ignored and it hurt the offense. They got rid of Gruden and brought in Hue to fix it, but he's doing the exact same thing only two years later.

Maybe they just think Gio would wear down under a heavier workload.

Plus, I am guess that last year you were upset that we let Gio have any carries, right?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-25-2015, 01:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not denying that Gio is clearly playing better than Hill, but he may not be as effective if he has to carry the ball 20 times a game.  Or he may wear down over the course of the season.

True, he might not hold up to 20 carries, but I think he could handle 20 touches. 13-15 carries and 5-7 catches. The only time this year he's gotten at least 20 touches?
Week 2: 23 touches / 139 yards.

Since the bye?
3 touches / 34 yards
14 touches / 86 yards
13 touches / 79 yards
14 touches/ 146 yards

Feed the man the ball, he'll make plays.