What Zac has done that Marvin couldn't

[Bengalbug]

(01-23-2023, 06:24 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Having arguably the best QB in the league helps.

Let's not overthink this one...

Yea, but this team seems to always be prepared (save for Halloween). We don’t fold under the pressure. It’s a combination of better talent, as well as chemistry/coaching/etc.

[Sled21]

(01-23-2023, 06:24 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Having arguably the best QB in the league helps.

Let's not overthink this one...

This is such a tired argument. Did Marvin Lewis not have Carson Palmer? Though he's now labeled quitter by some, and some others probably do not remember when he was drafted, when he came out of USC, he was the arguably hottest QB around, and Mike paid him a record breaking salary. That's why the Stealers had to injure him to continue their glory days.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-23-2023, 06:24 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Having arguably the best QB in the league helps.

Let's not overthink this one...

Zac is 20-5 his last 25 games (throwing out the Browns finale loss last year) . Lots of good QB’s named Mahomes, Rodgers etc w/o that success.

[Sled21]

(01-25-2023, 10:00 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote:
Zac is 20-5 his last 25 games (throwing out the Browns finale loss last year) . Lots of good QB’s named Mahomes, Rodgers etc w/o that success.

And that is freaking incredible considering he did it in a lot of games where we were missing Chase or Higgins and Hurst. Have not lost since HALLOWEEN. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-25-2023, 04:11 AM)Dr.Z Wrote: I'll preface this by saying that none of our answers will be able to be made definitively without someone being able to disagree or refute them, but I started seeing a slight glimmer of hope in both Zac Taylor and Lou Anarumo in the season before last, and a handful of my posts stating this on here during last year's offseason had people trying to argue with me, inciting some sort-of pent-up anger and frustration that seemed to be stewing within (which I kind of understood, considering the loyalty of many of us, despite the horrid track record of the team up to that point).  I certainly wasn't definitively sold on Zac, and even cited areas and instances in which I had concerns about, but I thought I might have seen an extra effort given in a collective and individual sense by the team and players at points where it seemed futile - even as a fan during games where we had no chance in winning, and at the end of the season where I was in that infamous position thinking that losses would be a good thing for a higher draft pick.  It just seemed as if the team seemed to play with a bit more pride and effort relative to other incarnations of   losing Bengal seasons.  I certainly didn't see last year's magical run coming, but I felt that he deserved a 3rd season, which is what I feel it takes to overhaul the personel of a pervious regime, especially with a roster like what he inherited.    I guess we can question whether it was Zac or a pivot by the front office, but I remember Zac stating early on about a philosophy based on drafting and signing players whom were team captains of their respective teams, and also trying to bring in players who have been a part of winning teams and cultures.  I like to think that aforementioned extra pride and fight was the earliest stage of  this philosophy  showing through.  I see a much more collective spirit.  It feels funny saying "one heart beat" (for those of us who remember this mantra) but it absolutely fits much better attached to this team.  It seems a little less individualistic and more collective, and I personally give Zac Taylor some of that credit for us having the opportunity to witness it.  I also think those that still try to subtly throw shade on Zac - and attribute 100 percent to Burrow -should realize that Burrow doesn't seem to be the type of dude who would GO OUT OF HIS WAY to praise Taylor as a coach and not mean it.

The Vonn Bell shot on Shit-Schuster was the turning point.

As to your post, you're not wrong. Ken Anderson mentioned it when he watched a spirited practice in London amidst all of the losing. 

[Soonerpeace]

(01-25-2023, 10:11 AM)Sled21 Wrote: And that is freaking incredible considering he did it in a lot of games where we were missing Chase or Higgins and Hurst. Have not lost since HALLOWEEN. 

Plus hard as ass schedule especially with the playoffs

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-23-2023, 03:23 PM)jj22 Wrote: In the AFCN you have to have some "dog" as the young kids say. You can't have a team full of choir boys as some old heads would say. Marvin sacrificed character for that "dog" and while it gave us the edge we needed to have some bite against some of the other "dogs" in the AFCN, we paid a heavy price for it with penalties, arrests, and emotional meltdowns.

Zac has somehow gotten players with edge and fight, without the character flaws. This team is full of choir boys, but yesterday showed me they have bark AND bite to go along with high character.

This team seems finesse, but somehow they aren't. They are tough and physical, without all the character sacrifices that haunted us in the past. Zac and the Front Office has done a great job walking that thin line this new era.

Some Marv apologists might take offense to this, and FWIW, I was a big supporter of Marv, but here are some huge differences:

Marv never embraced anything like next gen stats, where ZT has a TEAM that formulates a plan for almost every situation BEFORE the season even started.

Marv was HORRIBLE at two minute offense, the time before and after the half, where ZT is one of the best.

Marv never put the foot on the throat, but would try to protect a one score lead for two quarters, exhausting your defense.

Marv also was old-school in camp and weekly practices and was not as dialed in on health of his team, where ZT has set the standard for players being healthy and energetic heading in to the postseason....not limping in and looking flat in the first playoff game EVERY DAMN TIME.

All that notwithstanding, Marv had a bigger hurdle to leap in terms of culture change and ownership helping him with free agency.  ZT has changed the culture of the team and the entire organization, but I don't know if he would have been able to do it without Marv chipping away at the old guard ways. 

I will always be grateful to Marv for that, but the game had passed him by and he didn't adapt.  

[higgy100]

(01-25-2023, 09:12 AM)Sled21 Wrote: This is such a tired argument. Did Marvin Lewis not have Carson Palmer? Though he's now labeled quitter by some, and some others probably do not remember when he was drafted, when he came out of USC, he was the arguably hottest QB around, and Mike paid him a record breaking salary. That's why the Stealers had to injure him to continue their glory days.

Yep. It's like ZT has had nothing to with Joe and his development. That argument comes from people that really have no clue what actually goes on outside the 3 hours of football every week each season in that complex. I'd add that it's even more remarkable the job ZT has done because:

1. He had to actually sell the organization to JB prior to drafting him and that required building a relationship and a vision especially when the rest of the world is is telling him it's the worst place to be. Joe could have easily been a prima donna had he wanted to and not put every ounce of effort into the team like he has.

2. Putting JB behind what had been damn near the worst OL in football in prior years and during JB's first couple years. Again, a vision.

3. Dealing with Joe's injury and making him still believe when,again, the rest of the world was pointing fingers telling him I told you so.

4. Remolding an entire offense this past season due to a myriad of reasons and going from a strict vertical offense to what we see now at a critical juncture when the team was 0-2 coming off what we know can be very short windows of success in this league.

Again, Joe is a cool cat, likes ZT alot, will probably be very fair in contract negotiations to ensure future team success, etc. but Joe is also human and it's not as if the Bengals had anything close to recent success to sell to him. It took a great sales job and personal connection from ZT to Joe. If anybody doesn't believe that then they need to listen to joe just in the past couple weeks saying he wants to remain a Bengal forever especially with ZT as the coach.