Zac has to give up playcalling

[reuben.ahmed]

(01-30-2023, 03:09 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah, Chrisman had a bad game, but that's a player issue.

Calling that timeout with 40 seconds remaining was on Zac, we know what Mahomes does with 13 seconds lol. Anyway there were a lot of mistakes that game, including the refs. It looked like Burrow just learned how to throw the ball away this game and did it poorly for that that intentional grounding lol.

[Sled21]

(02-01-2023, 08:30 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Calling that timeout with 40 seconds remaining was on Zac, we know what Mahomes does with 13 seconds lol. Anyway there were a lot of mistakes that game, including the refs. It looked like Burrow just learned how to throw the ball away this game and did it poorly for that that intentional grounding lol.

Why is that funny? Perine was right there, it was not intentional grounding. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-01-2023, 08:30 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Calling that timeout with 40 seconds remaining was on Zac, we know what Mahomes does with 13 seconds lol. Anyway there were a lot of mistakes that game, including the refs. It looked like Burrow just learned how to throw the ball away this game and did it poorly for that that intentional grounding lol.

I think it was a bad call because Burrow was hit as he threw. Anyway, yeah, we just didn't execute when we needed to the most. Team loss for sure.

[*ochocincos*]

I was impressed with how the Bengals tried to adjust playcalling with Chase out part of the year and quite a number of teams playing Cover 2 on the Bengals. It was frustrating the first 1-2 months, but they made the adjustments later in the season.

Normally, I'd be calling for at least one coach to be replaced, but I think this time around I'm ok with the group sticking around.
It was the lack of depth at certain positions that ultimately doomed the Bengals, but they still got very far.

Let's see how the Bengals handle FA and the draft to fill the holes, and run it back one more time.

[reuben.ahmed]

(02-01-2023, 09:03 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Why is that funny? Perine was right there, it was not intentional grounding. 

Did that ball get to the line of scrimmage?

But no it's funny because all game he just threw the ball to the ground when throwing it away like he was throwing a puddle, he'll get better next year I'm sure. The best analogy I have is he was throwing it away the same way QBs throw the ball down after a flag and they didn't want to take a hit.

[BengalsRocker]

(02-05-2023, 09:57 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Did that ball get to the line of scrimmage?

But no it's funny because all game he just threw the ball to the ground when throwing it away like he was throwing a puddle, he'll get better next year I'm sure. The best analogy I have is he was throwing it away the same way QBs throw the ball down after a flag and they didn't want to take a hit.

Perine was in the vicinity(I get your point about LOS), but yes you are right about Burrow needing to work on throwing it away.

He's not perfect and free of critique of improvement.

On a side note, Burrow really needs to work on his play-action moves, selling the fake handoffs, and pump fakes.

Improving the line and giving him some more time to do these things of course is needed for this as well. 

[TheFan]

(02-05-2023, 10:33 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Perine was in the vicinity(I get your point about LOS), but yes you are right about Burrow needing to work on throwing it away.

He's not perfect and free of critique of improvement.

On a side note, Burrow really needs to work on his play-action moves, selling the fake handoffs, and pump fakes.

Improving the line and giving him some more time to do these things of course is needed for this as well. 

The only pump fake I can really even remember well is the Hurst TD in Buffalo. I do think the Oline is part of that problem and not having/worrying about not having enough time to pump fake. 

I know the little hands is a pretty dumb thing for QBs but I wonder how much that plays into effective play action? It doesn't seem like something we're good at but again, that could be the Oline again and teams knowing they can beat our 5 with their 4. 

[2slick]

(01-30-2023, 10:06 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: I’m a huge Taylor fan. Especially after this season.

I still think he needs a traditional OC. Our offense should be much more explosive.

6 points in the first half against an average D isn’t good enough, even with the injuries to the line.

Furthermore, Burrow bails him out frequently with absolutely remarkable plays.

Love him as a man, a leader and a motivator and a HC. But a good OC with this team would have made it nearly unbeatable.

This.

[Sled21]

(02-05-2023, 09:57 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Did that ball get to the line of scrimmage?

But no it's funny because all game he just threw the ball to the ground when throwing it away like he was throwing a puddle, he'll get better next year I'm sure. The best analogy I have is he was throwing it away the same way QBs throw the ball down after a flag and they didn't want to take a hit.

Coming back the other way on the next series, Mahomes did the same thing, threw the ball into the ground without it even being close to the line of scrimmage, and flags stayed in their pockets. 

[Soonerpeace]

(01-30-2023, 10:06 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: I’m a huge Taylor fan. Especially after this season.

I still think he needs a traditional OC. Our offense should be much more explosive.

6 points in the first half against an average D isn’t good enough, even with the injuries to the line.

Furthermore, Burrow bails him out frequently with absolutely remarkable plays.

Love him as a man, a leader and a motivator and a HC. But a good OC with this team would have made it nearly unbeatable.

(02-05-2023, 03:24 PM)2slick Wrote: This.

You know that all the offensive coaches are involved with the play calls? They each have situational areas. Picher I think has third downs. Callahan has Redzone. Walters has something and Pollack in the run game. On the headset they give a play and Zac gives his play and Joe gets a choice. No every play isn’t this way. But there’s lots of input. I think also you have Joe that they probably cater to too much. Early in the year he was the problem. He hates the short controlled passing game. But he wants to win and finally accepted the fact he had to buy in. But I don’t think many understand how involved he is in the call sheet. The bottom line is the offensive line has been a nullifier in many ways.

[casear2727]

(01-30-2023, 09:53 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: We gotta figure out how come we can never run a screen though. I’m not sure we’ve run a successful screen in burrows career.

We ran a great one vs KC in last year's Championship game.  My biggest issue with Zac is that we didnt run one screen vs the Rams incredible pass rush knowing that they were last in the league in defending screens....

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-05-2023, 04:39 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: You know that all the offensive coaches are involved with the play calls? They each have situational areas. Picher I think has third downs. Callahan has Redzone. Walters has something and Pollack in the run game. On the headset they give a play and Zac gives his play and Joe gets a choice. No every play isn’t this way. But there’s lots of input. I think also you have Joe that they probably cater to too much. Early in the year he was the problem. He hates the short controlled passing game. But he wants to win and finally accepted the fact he had to buy in. But I don’t think many understand how involved he is in the call sheet. The bottom line is the offensive line has been a nullifier in many ways.

I can't speak on who's calling plays when. I know the oline was not good and that was certainly a factor in the loss. There were a lot of factors in the loss. I started the thread because I think we really struggle in situational football. We got better this year in several areas but when and how we go for 4th and short was a real struggle. This may be an area we can improve on next year. But with all the factors in the loss to the Chiefs we had very poor use of timeouts and I think if that was better we just mightve overcome the negatives in the game. Situational football is the difference between wins and losses in tight games and I'm just not sure we've been seeing improvements in this department.

[casear2727]

(01-30-2023, 08:11 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: This is gonna sound like riding the emotion of a loss and maybe it is. But made crucial mistakes at crucial times that may have cost us the game.

Two minute drive at the end of the half was flawed. He mismanaged the timeouts and I think we could've had more time to try and get a touchdown rather than 3.

Towards the end of the game we have a 7 yd 1st down run and we throw two deeper low percentage throws and punt.

Call a timeout after Hurst picks up 2 yards on the last drive. I get it we want to be aggressive. But with time expiring from our own 20 yd line your playing for overtime or forcing kc's hand to use they're timeouts.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be involved but we need to bring an OC from the outside. This defense is most likely gonna be worse next year with potential players leaving and we will be limited with the cap. The offense is gonna need to start carrying this team.

I want to blame officials and perhaps they had a factor but at the end of the day we had a chance with just a little more offense. I wasn't gonna feel bad with a hard fought lose and for the most part I don't. But I didn't want to look back at a loss that we could point to a few bone headed decisions and I'm not so sure we got that.

(01-30-2023, 08:14 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: The 2nd and 3, 2 failed bombs will stick out.

I remember with 50ish seconds remaining we called a timeout while we were in bounds around our 40. I thought that was a bad idea, kC still had time outs make them try to use them, we were about to get into FG range. That time management was interesting.

I think almost every NFL team has "boneheaded decisions" that helped result in their loss, unless it's a eagles/49ers drubbing. We almost lost to the Ravens because Harbaugh is a better coach. Stefanski makes some similar confusing decisions to Zac when I've watched the Browns play.

(01-30-2023, 09:54 AM)Big Boss Wrote: 2nd and 3, we throw it deep.  

I will never understand it.

(01-30-2023, 10:02 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Me either.  They did it twice in a row.  WTF!!!!!!!

I was screaming at the TV.  lol.   Just get the first down and drive down the field.  

(01-30-2023, 09:29 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: I’m fine as long as whoever called those back to back long throws on 2nd and 3 our second to last drive learns from their mistake.   That’s just absolutely terrible situational play calling.   We could have easily driven methodically down the field killing clock.  

Additionally, a well experienced coached team…the difference is obvious when you watch both our last offensive snap and the Chiefs.  

On our last snap, nobody chips and helps our backup RT against their best pass rusher.   Hendrickson being our best rusher got chipped by their RB to slow him down.  

Little details and the difference between well experienced coaches vs inexperienced coaching made all the difference in these games.

I am struggling to understand these complaints.  Like most of you seem to know football and our team in particular, thus you know tat Burrow can change the play at anytime and he can throw to whomever he wants to... we have no idea that these long passes were the initial play call or that those deep receivers were primary on those plays.

It is beyond silly to suggest that Zach absolutely called the play and demanded who Joe should throw the ball to, it is very amateurish.  If you want to complain about plays in which Burrow goes deep to the one WR that ran the deep route, and you have zero idea what was sent in from the sideline, then you should add Burrow to your complaint as well, not just Zac.  Because that is how our offense works.  

[casear2727]

(01-30-2023, 09:59 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: I been asking for Zac's firing since forever.  The players' talent is carrying this team. Put Zac against a good coach and it's game over for us. The D has been carrying this team to victory more often than none due to the offense inability to score and move the ball. They win and score easy because of the Talent our receivers have, all it takes one sprint and accurate pass by Joe and you got 7pts. The inability to control/manage the game with the offense, has never been there like a well coached, dominant offense.  

This offense is no different than Marvin's offense, where they easily scored, but coming up short. This offense is even more talented. They came up short in the SB and again last night in similar fashion.

Im embarrassed for you with this take...  Maybe check out the Wikipedia page on our team and its past success, then get back to us. Firing Taylor after a SB appearance and back to back AFC championship games might be the stupidest suggestion in this message board's history, which would be saying a lot. Come on man.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-05-2023, 05:04 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I am struggling to understand these complaints.  Like most of you seem to know football and our team in particular, thus you know tat Burrow can change the play at anytime and he can throw to whomever he wants to... we have no idea that these long passes were the initial play call or that those deep receivers were primary on those plays.

It is beyond silly to suggest that Zach absolutely called the play and demanded who Joe should throw the ball to, it is very amateurish.  If you want to complain about plays in which Burrow goes deep to the one WR that ran the deep route, and you have zero idea what was sent in from the sideline, then you should add Burrow to your complaint as well, not just Zac.  Because that is how our offense works.  

This and Zac feverishly protects Joe when it’s on him by not saying it was him.

[Bengal Billy]

(02-05-2023, 05:07 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Im embarrassed for you with this take...  Maybe check out the Wikipedia page on our team and its past success, then get back to us.  Firing Taylor after a SB appearance and back to back AFC championship games might be the stupidest suggestion in this message board's history, which would be saying a lot.  Come on man.

Gotta agree.

- Back-to-back AFCN titles
- Back-to-back AFCC games
- a SB appearance

Yup, let's fire the coach 

[reuben.ahmed]

(02-05-2023, 05:04 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I am struggling to understand these complaints.  Like most of you seem to know football and our team in particular, thus you know tat Burrow can change the play at anytime and he can throw to whomever he wants to... we have no idea that these long passes were the initial play call or that those deep receivers were primary on those plays.

It is beyond silly to suggest that Zach absolutely called the play and demanded who Joe should throw the ball to, it is very amateurish.  If you want to complain about plays in which Burrow goes deep to the one WR that ran the deep route, and you have zero idea what was sent in from the sideline, then you should add Burrow to your complaint as well, not just Zac.  Because that is how our offense works.  

I would say Zac and Joe made mistakes on 2nd and 3 and 3rd and 3 throwing 2 bombs. Joe is better than that to turn a 3rd and 3 into a punt INT. Well, he will be next year probably.

[casear2727]

(02-05-2023, 07:07 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I would say Zac and Joe made mistakes on 2nd and 3 and 3rd and 3 throwing 2 bombs. Joe is better than that to turn a 3rd and 3 into a punt INT. Well, he will be next year probably.

I think you have to include Burrow in with the criticism due to his autonomy, hell he supposedly wanted to go deep on 4th and 1 to end the SB...

[Sled21]

Joe has said numerous times it doesn't matter what the play is, if he see Chase with single coverage that's where he's going with the ball.

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-05-2023, 05:04 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I am struggling to understand these complaints.  Like most of you seem to know football and our team in particular, thus you know tat Burrow can change the play at anytime and he can throw to whomever he wants to... we have no idea that these long passes were the initial play call or that those deep receivers were primary on those plays.

It is beyond silly to suggest that Zach absolutely called the play and demanded who Joe should throw the ball to, it is very amateurish.  If you want to complain about plays in which Burrow goes deep to the one WR that ran the deep route, and you have zero idea what was sent in from the sideline, then you should add Burrow to your complaint as well, not just Zac.  Because that is how our offense works.  

My gut reaction was to not like the 2 deep throws following 2nd and short. But they were close to hitting and would've been game changing. My real issue with Zac was the bad timeouts. I think those fall into the situational football that Zac struggles with. While we've improved in other areas that particular area we seem to either not be learning from or learning very slowly.