PFF - OL pressures in AFCCG

[007BengalsFan]

(01-30-2023, 05:22 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: ... I think Burrow needs to view film on how disguised defenses are giving him slow reads...

I don't think it's disguised defenses as much as it's Burrow just doesnt have much time to even read a defense before he has to worry about someone on the defense hitting him.  

It's much easier to stand behind your O-line and read what defenses are doing when you have 3 Pro Bowl offensive linemen like Patty Mahomes has blocking for him.  Give Burrow that much protection and see what he does.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-30-2023, 04:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I wonder if Carman could steal the LT job away from Jonah in camp?

Carman - Jonah - Karras - Cappa - Collins

Or maybe a high draft pick at RT, and cut Collins. Keep developing Volson, and have him first off the bench at guard.

Bengals won't risk demoting Volson when Jonah will be in a contract year and potentially leave in FA.
If Carman got the nod at LT, they'd potentially try Jonah at RT and release Collins. Or they'd try to trade Jonah.
They won't have Jonah or Collins riding the bench.

[leonardfan40]

I’m not worried about Volson. He is a rookie who started every game for us and played well. It’s hard for any rookie to line to look good, but he did. He will continue to improve in year 2-3. No need to throw him out over one game against a great DT. With experience and healthy starters beside him he will be fine.

[*bfine32*]

(01-30-2023, 04:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I wonder if Carman could steal the LT job away from Jonah in camp?

Carman - Jonah - Karras - Cappa - Collins

Or maybe a high draft pick at RT, and cut Collins. Keep developing Volson, and have him first off the bench at guard.

I'd personally like to see:

Carman-Torrence-Karras-Cappa-Collins

w/ Jonah and Volston first off the bench

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-30-2023, 05:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Bengals won't risk demoting Volson when Jonah will be in a contract year and potentially leave in FA.
If Carman got the nod at LT, they'd potentially try Jonah at RT and release Collins. Or they'd try to trade Jonah.
They won't have Jonah or Collins riding the bench.

Right, I never suggested they would.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-30-2023, 06:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Right, I never suggested they would.

You suggested moving Jonah to LG and benching Volson.
I'm saying Bengals won't demote Volson since it could affect his continued development, and they won't have either Jonah or Collins on the bench.
So that means either Carman is riding the bench again or Collins/Jonah won't be on the team.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(01-30-2023, 03:50 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Carman - 3 total pressures, 0 sacks. 64.7 pass block grade
Volson - 2 total pressures, 0 sacks. 48.4 pass block grade
Karras - 2 total pressures, 0 sacks. 58.1 pass block grade
Scharping - 9 total pressures, 2 sacks. 23.7 pass block grade
Adeniji - 7 total pressures, 3 sacks. 38.0 pass block grade

So for those that felt Carman actually did solid last night, PFF agrees with you.
They gave Carman the highest pass block grade on the team.

They tagged Scharping and Adeniji for 5 sacks and 16 total pressures between the two.
Their pass blocking grades reflect that, as they are both under 40.

We also had a couple drive killing penalties. Adeniji false start. Karras had a hold. I think Scharping/Volson did, too. 

OL has to be the top priority this offseason. Again. 

Cappa, Karras, Jonah, Collins, Volson, and Carman are all wirth keeping.  But ALL of them could be upgraded. 

Scharping is a FA & we should let him walk. Adeniji needs replaced. Smith has had two years. 

[PCB Bengal Fan]

Yet Zach did'nt give those guys help & run the ball more. We need a competent play caller. He's a good HC, not a good OC.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-30-2023, 07:39 PM)PCB Bengal Fan Wrote: Yet Zach did'nt give those guys help & run the ball more. We need a competent play caller. He's a good HC, not a good OC.

He was a fine OC when we were winning 10 games in a row.

[PCB Bengal Fan]

(01-30-2023, 07:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He was a fine OC when we were winning 10 games in a row.

I never thought he was decent, we won despite of him. How many blowouts did we have this year?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-30-2023, 04:05 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I think they're riding with Volson at LG going into next season. I also think Carman deserves a shot to compete the LT job. 

Fast-forward to 2023 postseason "who would have possibly predicted that the Bengals OL would suck again and get Burrow murdered leading us to lose?"

If they keep settling with starting the best of the worst, they're going to keep getting bad results. Burrow has been sacked 121 times the last 2 years and the run game continues to be terrible.

[Destro]

If it was not for those injuries.....

[RegularGuy22]

Some here are now saying, thinking that Carman is the LT going forward. But after just 2 decent games? Wasn't but a month or so ago that some were calling for him to be traded or cut. Karras, Cappa, Volson were a solid trio but both tackles spots are still questions. If Carman continues his upgrade then fine, one less the team has to plan for but I feel it's premature to call him the starting LT.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-30-2023, 07:47 PM)PCB Bengal Fan Wrote: I never thought he was decent, we won despite of him. How many blowouts did we have this year?

It’s the NFL, even the worst teams have a ton of talent. You are not going to “blow out” teams very often.

It’s insane to me people are still questioning Taylor after what he did the last two seasons. Some of you are just never going to admit you were wrong (like so many of us were).

You don’t win 10 games in a row, win back to back division titles, and go 5-2 in the playoffs “despite” the head coach. That’s ridiculous.

[pdub2005]

(01-30-2023, 03:53 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I can't believe our effing o-line effed us again for the 2nd effing year in a row.   Dammit!!!!!!!!

I mean not a lot of teams could get to the AFCC with 3 backups starting. We all know winning a Super Bowl is just as much luck as it is skill.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-30-2023, 08:50 PM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: Some here are now saying, thinking that Carman is the LT going forward. But after just 2 decent games? Wasn't but a month or so ago that some were calling for him to be traded or cut. Karras, Cappa, Volson were a solid trio but both tackles spots are still questions. If Carman continues his upgrade then fine, one less the team has to plan for but I feel it's premature to call him the starting LT.

We never saw him at LT before the playoffs. So far he’s strung together 2.5 very solid games against 3 playoff teams. Sometimes it’s all about seizing an opportunity when it presents itself. Should they pencil him in as a starter after 3 games? Ofc not. But he’s earned the opportunity to compete for the spot.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-30-2023, 04:32 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: They allowed 13 sacks in the 1st 2 games, then just 28 over the last 14. They definitely improved during the season. Not saying they were great, but they were solid and that was a huge step up from last year. I think if Cappa and Collins hadn't got hurt, they would be in the SB again. The right of the line was just embarrassing last night and it affected everything the offense was trying to do.

How much of that is from shortening and neutering the offense? Burrow's YPA dropped 1.5 yards from last year. He threw for 28 less first downs despite throwing the ball 86 more times.

To put it in some perspective, imagine if you took Joe Burrow's 2021 stats and then added 2 more games where he threw it 43 times for -68 yards in each game.

If you added 1.5 to the YPA of the QB with the worst (Kyler Murray, 34th at 6.1) he would have the 8th highest. It's a truly huge difference.

(01-30-2023, 07:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He was a fine OC when we were winning 10 games in a row.

Ehhhm the offense...

Scored 0 points in the 2nd half against the Patriots.
Scored 3 points in the 1st half against the Buccaneers.
Scored 3 points in the 2nd half against the Ravens in the final week.
It had to be saved by a defensive TD to even break 20pts and win against the Ravens in the wildcard.

That's 4 straight weeks of red flags on the offense. Pretty positive I even made a thread about it, so it's not like this is hindsight or anything. In the final 9 games, Joe Burrow threw for 300 yards just once despite having the best WR trio in the NFL (they did it 3 times the first 7 weeks), and they had no real running game to look to instead. Meanwhile opponents were only scoring 17.4 points per game during those 9 games, which is where the majority of the winning streak came from.

[*bfine32*]

(01-30-2023, 11:18 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: How much of that is from shortening and neutering the offense? Burrow's YPA dropped 1.5 yards from last year. He threw for 28 less first downs despite throwing the ball 86 more times.

To put it in some perspective, imagine if you took Joe Burrow's 2021 stats and then added 2 more games where he threw it 43 times for -68 yards in each game.

If you added 1.5 to the YPA of the QB with the worst (Kyler Murray, 34th at 6.1) he would have the 8th highest. It's a truly huge difference.


Ehhhm the offense...

Scored 0 points in the 2nd half against the Patriots.
Scored 3 points in the 1st half against the Buccaneers.
Scored 3 points in the 2nd half against the Ravens in the final week.
It had to be saved by a defensive TD to even break 20pts and win against the Ravens in the wildcard.

That's 4 straight weeks of red flags on the offense. Pretty positive I even made a thread about it, so it's not like this is hindsight or anything. In the final 9 games, Joe Burrow threw for 300 yards just once despite having the best WR trio in the NFL (they did it 3 times the first 7 weeks), and they had no real running game to look to instead. Meanwhile opponents were only scoring 17.4 points per game during those 9 games, which is where the majority of the winning streak came from.

Experience has shown me when folks use 1/2 games to try to prove their point; they're struggling to find evidence. 

[*psychdoctor*]

(01-30-2023, 05:50 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I don't think it's disguised defenses as much as it's Burrow just doesnt have much time to even read a defense before he has to worry about someone on the defense hitting him.  

It's much easier to stand behind your O-line and read what defenses are doing when you have 3 Pro Bowl offensive linemen like Patty Mahomes has blocking for him.  Give Burrow that much protection and see what he does.

He had no trouble reading the bills defense and Burrow has the quickest release second to only Tom Brady

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-30-2023, 11:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Experience has shown me when folks use 1/2 games to try to prove their point; they're struggling to find evidence. 

Experience has shown me when offenses completely shut down for entire halves of games, it's not a very reliable offense.

Ask Colts fans if they think worrying about an offense shutting down for entire halves is struggling to find evidence. Then ask Falcons fans. That's Matt Ryan's entire legacy, shutting down for a half.