What is up with Hendrickson?

[C0de_M0nkey]

Trey Hendrickson looked great this year. He just gets held every game and the refs never call it. I’ve been way more infuriated at the refs than at Hendrickson’s performance this season.

[casear2727]

(01-30-2023, 04:30 PM)Mer Wrote: Fair enough. But where was all the production before the wrist injury? I'm a fan of Hendrickson but he just didn't have the fire this year like he did last year. And held or not, the elite pass rushers fight through holds and double teams and still sack the QB. How many times did we double up Jones last night and he was still wreaking havoc?

I think these comments take from the actual question.... saying that player doesn't have the same "fire" is beyond silly and comparing him to Jones, an inside DT with 15 sacks and up for DPOY, is nonsensical. 

It is pretty simple to me:

Trey had a great year last season, thus teams are going to plan for him, be it chips, double teams, or just scheme.

He is the only pass rusher we have which makes the above much easier.

He is also playing with a broken wrist which probably had some impact.

Hopefully Ossai continues to improve and we draft another Edge, this class is stacked.

[The American Dream]

(01-31-2023, 03:30 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I think these comments take from the actual question.... saying that player doesn't have the same "fire" is beyond silly and comparing him to Jones, an inside DT with 15 sacks and up for DPOY, is nonsensical. 

It is pretty simple to me:

Trey had a great year last season, thus teams are going to plan for him, be it chips, double teams, or just scheme.

He is the only pass rusher we have which makes the above much easier.

He is also playing with a broken wrist which probably had some impact.

Hopefully Ossai continues to improve and we draft another Edge, this class is stacked.

I agree. I know we need some o-line help would not be totally against us taking an edge with our first pick.If Ojulari from LSU falls to us for instance would take him in a heartbeat.

[casear2727]

(01-31-2023, 04:05 PM)The American Dream Wrote: I agree. I know we need some o-line help would not be totally against us taking an edge with our first pick.If Ojulari from LSU falls to us for instance would take him in a heartbeat.

He would be a great get,, but there are many very good edges this draft. 

If Broderick Jones or Anton Williams are available Im not sure we can pass on either of these 2 tackles...

With LC out I would not be opposed to reaching for Darnell Wright, the best RT in the draft.

Tuipulot, Harrison, Hall, Morris, McGuire, Land - one of these edge guys will be available at #60


But we also desperately need a CB until Awuzie gets back to 100%.


We could use safety depth even if we resign Bell and potentially another LB.  TE is also a need.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-31-2023, 02:13 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Agree.What people don't realize was up until the game he broke his wrist, according to ESPN/NFL Next Gen stats, Hendrickson was tied for third in the NFL in pass rush win rate, trailing only Parsons  and Garrett. Trey also comes off the field a lot on running downs as he's not real good there but that doesn't mean teams have to run the ball so he's not on the field as much.

Cinci. had been waiting for Ossai the first half of the year to arrive and he finally did which gave them that extra rusher they needed.If people had watched the games this year alot of what they do is scheme-based. Rarely, in the 1st half of games did they make huge efforts to get to the QB as they like to also drop their DE's some and show mixed coverages. Watch the 2nd half of games and especially when they needed to apply more pressure and it was totally differrent.

Great post. Trey is an elite pass rusher, I don't know what others are watching, nothing against Mer because it is a fair 
question because we SHOULD add another pass rusher because Sam isn't elite in rushing the passer, he is elite in every
thing else. Ossai could be elite and Cam Sample can be elite surprisingly. Gunter even can flash and is young.

Our Defense is different than the Eagles or 49ers. We learn what Offenses are doing early and then stomp on them in 
the 2nd half. We don't just go all out on teams early. Love how we are coached because with Lou and this Defense and
a couple additions we can be just as good as the Eagles or 49ers. We can shut down the run game and get after the 
passer when we turn it on and it is needed. We tackle well and are disciplined etc.

Just watch this DL grow, Ossai, Sample and Gunter could be just what the Doctor ordered.

[casear2727]

(01-31-2023, 04:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great post. Trey is an elite pass rusher, I don't know what others are watching, nothing against Mer because it is a fair 
question because we SHOULD add another pass rusher because Sam isn't elite in rushing the passer, he is elite in every
thing else. Ossai could be elite and Cam Sample can be elite surprisingly. Gunter even can flash and is young.

Our Defense is different than the Eagles or 49ers. We learn what Offenses are doing early and then stomp on them in 
the 2nd half. We don't just go all out on teams early. Love how we are coached because with Lou and this Defense and
a couple additions we can be just as good as the Eagles or 49ers. We can shut down the run game and get after the 
passer when we turn it on and it is needed. We tackle well and are disciplined etc.

Just watch this DL grow, Ossai, Sample and Gunter could be just what the Doctor ordered.

Easy killer... Eagles had 15 more sacks than the 2nd best team, were are bottom tier.  They have several big name free agents this offseason, so they will digress.

49ers are elite, they have a pro bowler at every position group. 


We have some solid players and a very good coach that schemes well.  I cannot think of a single player that could start for both of these teams outside of maybe Bates, even Reader would not be a guaranteed starter.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-31-2023, 04:22 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Easy killer... Eagles had 15 more sacks than the 2nd best team, were are bottom tier.  They have several big name free agents this offseason, so they will digress.

49ers are elite, they have a pro bowler at every position group. 


We have some solid players and a very good coach that schemes well.  I cannot think of a single player that could start for both of these teams outside of maybe Bates, even Reader would not be a guaranteed starter.

Well yeah, I am just saying they could be that great if we add a few more studs and our young guys grow into what they could be.

Another year in Lou's system with these guys and some additions and we could be right up there with them. I love how our Defense
tackles, we tackle a lot like those 2 teams. We just aren't loaded with All Pros like they are right now. We have youth though, that 
could grow into All Pros. Trey is a great pass rusher when he isn't injured and isn't being held all game, Reader is better than the 
NT's on those teams in my opinion. BJ Hill is damn good, Sam is a damn good player in so many aspects.

Ossai and Sample are coming on. ADG has crazy talent for the future, same with CTB and Daxton Hill. Awuzie is a top Corner etc.

[higgy100]

(01-31-2023, 04:15 PM)ccasear2727 Wrote: He would be a great get,, but there are many very good edges this draft. 

If Broderick Jones or Anton Williams are available Im not sure we can pass on either of these 2 tackles...

With LC out I would not be opposed to reaching for Darnell Wright, the best RT in the draft.

Tuipulot, Harrison, Hall, Morris, McGuire, Land - one of these edge guys will be available at #60


But we also desperately need a CB until Awuzie gets back to 100%.


We could use safety depth even if we resign Bell and potentially another LB.  TE is also a need.

Will also be intriguing regarding OL Dewand Jones from OSU who may have the absolute highest ceiling, imo, in the draft. 6'8", 350 lbs. with crazy athleticism as he was a 3 year productive starter in BB on his HS team and has a 7'4" wingspan. Started 3 years at OSU and was dominant at RT the past 2 years but especially this year. He could be a take if he falls down that har.

[casear2727]

(01-31-2023, 04:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well yeah, I am just saying they could be that great if we add a few more studs and our young guys grow into what they could be.

Another year in Lou's system with these guys and some additions and we could be right up there with them. I love how our Defense
tackles, we tackle a lot like those 2 teams. We just aren't loaded with All Pros like they are right now. We have youth though, that 
could grow into All Pros. Trey is a great pass rusher when he isn't injured and isn't being held all game, Reader is better than the 
NT's on those teams in my opinion. BJ Hill is damn good, Sam is a damn good player in so many aspects.

Ossai and Sample are coming on. ADG has crazy talent for the future, same with CTB and Daxton Hill. Awuzie is a top Corner etc.

I like our defense as well, very gritty and tough.  Soem of you are too young to remember but we were always one of the worst tackling teams in the league and now one of the best.  This is such an underrated fact that truly helps end drives.

I love Reader, he and my son are good friends, and he would be great with any team.  But he would be in competition with Fletcher Cox, Javon Hargrave, Arik Armstead... even 1st Rounder Jordan Davis cant see the field.  Im sure DJ would hold his own but these are 2 great dlines.  

Sweat, Graham, Quinn, Bosa, Ebukam would keep Sam on the sidelines Im afraid.

That said, these guys are FAs
Cox
Quinn
Graham
Hargrave
Ward
Ebukam
Mosely
Al-Shaair
Gispon

Well over $100M in that bunch above not to mention the offensive FA's each team has:
Kelce
Seumalo
Sanders
McGlinchey
Brunskill
Jennings


Neither team will be better than they are this season.  We on the other hand shore up RT, hope that ADG and Dax can fill spots, should be good to go.

[casear2727]

(01-31-2023, 04:40 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Will also be intriguing regarding OL Dewand Jones from OSU who may have the absolute highest ceiling, imo, in the draft. 6'8", 350 lbs. with crazy athleticism as he was a 3 year productive starter in BB on his HS team and has a 7'4" wingspan. Started 3 years at OSU and was dominant at RT the past 2 years but especially this year. He could be a take if he falls down that har.

Absolutely, he or Wright could solve our RT issues for a decade.  Both most likely are available in the 1st for us.

[BengalsBong]

(01-30-2023, 04:20 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: He’s held, but we also don’t have another top tier pass rusher to give teams fits. He’s almost always right next to the QB. Hubbard is great for his role but he’ll never be a top tier pass rusher

Hendrickson only has a bull rush and the outside speed rush. I never see him spin or throw guys off of him like Lawson use to do rush up field then stop go underneath and shove his guy up field with one arm using his momentum against him. Hubbard is very bland at pass rushing as well. In a league where passing is the way teams beat you then you got to get to the QB. 

I know they was being held but you got to beat it anyway. We are the Bengals you got to deal with D-lineman being held, O-lineman getting hands to the face and WR being held. It is a way of life here.

Hendrickson only rushes from one side too. If he moved around he might find miss match with weaker pass defending RT.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-30-2023, 05:28 PM)Mer Wrote: My apologies if I took it the wrong way.

Back on subject. I was referring to the whole year not just this past game. Am I the only one that noticed a big drop off in his production? 

I was really hoping that some on here that dive deeper into the defensive schemes and calls could let me know if they felt his production drop off this year was scheme related or is he already declining?

According to PFF he was still 9th in total pressures this year. Of the top 20 in pressures, 9 of them had single digit sack years. 

Every ED has "down" years now and then. I wouldn't even be concerned. Look for a bounce back next year and if his numbers are low again...then you start to questions why. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-31-2023, 04:22 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Easy killer... Eagles had 15 more sacks than the 2nd best team, were are bottom tier.  They have several big name free agents this offseason, so they will digress.

49ers are elite, they have a pro bowler at every position group.


We have some solid players and a very good coach that schemes well. I cannot think of a single player that could start for both of these teams outside of maybe Bates, even Reader would not be a guaranteed starter.

The 9ers are a bit weak at CB. Chido would start for them.

[casear2727]

(01-31-2023, 06:20 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The 9ers are a bit weak at CB. Chido would start for them.

Healthy, sure, but possibly not for the Eagles with Slay and Bradberry.

Let's hope the ACL doesnt have a lingering impact.

[casear2727]

(01-31-2023, 04:50 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Hendrickson only has a bull rush and the outside speed rush. I never see him spin or throw guys off of him like Lawson use to do rush up field then stop go underneath and shove his guy up field with one arm using his momentum against him. Hubbard is very bland at pass rushing as well. In a league where passing is the way teams beat you then you got to get to the QB. 

I know they was being held but you got to beat it anyway. We are the Bengals you got to deal with D-lineman being held, O-lineman getting hands to the face and WR being held. It is a way of life here.

Hendrickson only rushes from one side too. If he moved around he might find miss match with weaker pass defending RT.

Trey has 43 sacks and Lawson has 14 in the past 3 years.  This season, Lawson had 49 pressures, Trey had 87.  Spin move.....meh.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-31-2023, 04:44 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I like our defense as well, very gritty and tough.  Soem of you are too young to remember but we were always one of the worst tackling teams in the league and now one of the best.  This is such an underrated fact that truly helps end drives.

I love Reader, he and my son are good friends, and he would be great with any team.  But he would be in competition with Fletcher Cox, Javon Hargrave, Arik Armstead... even 1st Rounder Jordan Davis cant see the field.  Im sure DJ would hold his own but these are 2 great dlines.  

Sweat, Graham, Quinn, Bosa, Ebukam would keep Sam on the sidelines Im afraid.

That said, these guys are FAs
Cox
Quinn
Graham
Hargrave
Ward
Ebukam
Mosely
Al-Shaair
Gispon

Well over $100M in that bunch above not to mention the offensive FA's each team has:
Kelce
Seumalo
Sanders
McGlinchey
Brunskill
Jennings


Neither team will be better than they are this season.  We on the other hand shore up RT, hope that ADG and Dax can fill spots, should be good to go.

Nice post Casear. Yes, it is refreshing having a good tackling Defense to say the least. Especially one that can stop the run. I hated
it all those years when we sucked at stopping the run. That irks me more than anything. Wow, surprised those teams have that many
FA's to try and keep. The Eagles might be able to keep a few of them. Fletcher Cox used to be great but I would take Reader over him
any day who is still in his prime.

The Chiefs cannot lose Kelce if they want to continue to play us tough.

I like our situation better than about anybody right now honestly. I think we can keep our essential players.

[BengalsBong]

(01-31-2023, 06:44 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Trey has 43 sacks and Lawson has 14 in the past 3 years.  This season, Lawson had 49 pressures, Trey had 87.  Spin move.....meh.

A pressure can still be a touchdown for them. Need sacks as well.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-01-2023, 11:59 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: A pressure can still be a touchdown for them. Need sacks as well.

Trey has sacks, many more than Lawson.  In order for Trey to be any more effective than he currently is, another source of QB pressure has to enter the game.  It's just too easy for well coached teams to focus on a teams' single, most effective pass rusher, when there is nobody else commanding close to or equal attention to block.

[Frank Booth]

Bengals went 12-4 without many sacks. Ossai is going to step up in 23, Trey will be Trey, Reader and Hill will man the middle, Hubbard will be there, everything will be fine.

I wouldnt prioritize pass rusher as much as many of you here.

[BengalsBong]

(02-01-2023, 02:19 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Trey has sacks, many more than Lawson.  In order for Trey to be any more effective than he currently is, another source of QB pressure has to enter the game.  It's just too easy for well coached teams to focus on a teams' single, most effective pass rusher, when there is nobody else commanding close to or equal attention to block.

I was not comparing Trey to Lawson production wise, was just using Lawson's pass rush moves as an example of technique.

I do agree we need more guys that can get to the QB more consistently. When the pressure closes in on a QB from two or three sides at once the chance at the QB escaping goes down.