Jackson Carman or Jonah Williams

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-31-2023, 12:39 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: What is the cap situation of savings versus dead money if they let Williams walk?

It's also going to matter who the Bengals are able to bring back, draft and get in free agency. If they lose several of their top FA's and have to spend a lot of draft capital on replacing them then it's going to be hard to make a move that creates another hole like letting Williams or LC go.

Full $12 million in dead cap if they cut him. So obviously not happening.

[Ell Prez]

Carman’s cap hit next year is 1.6. If we sign Jonah for $12, is he 7.5x better? He’s not. If we want to keep all these players, Williams is an obvious choice to let go.

If we want to keep Chase and Higgins, we have to make some tough choices. Like carman>Williams, Perine>Mixon, Wilson or Pratt, Bell or Bates(maybe neither). Higgins>Boyd

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-31-2023, 02:31 AM)Ell Prez Wrote: Carman’s cap hit next year is 1.6. If we sign Jonah for $12, is he 7.5x better? He’s not. If we want to keep all these players, Williams is an obvious choice to let go.

If we want to keep Chase and Higgins, we have to make some tough choices. Like carman>Williams, Perine>Mixon, Wilson or Pratt, Bell or Bates(maybe neither). Higgins>Boyd

For the millionth time they already picked up Jonah’s 5th year. It would cost 12 million in dead cap to cut him.

[NATI BENGALS]

Both. I'm giving Jonah every chance to win the LT job again. And hopefully have an outstanding 5th year.

Depending on how well he does and what Carman does or doesn't do we can still move on with a tag and trade or at least get a comp pick when he signs a decent deal elsewhere. But what would be really nice is a rare in season trade if someone loses a LT and we pull off a blockbuster and move Jonah for quality draft picks and/or player/s and plug Carman in and he excels. Everybody would be mad if we were winning and then traded away a LT but it would probably be a good move in the long run.

[Rubekahn29]

(01-31-2023, 03:32 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: For the millionth time they already picked up Jonah’s 5th year. It would cost 12 million in dead cap to cut him.

Yep. Gotta try and figure out a place for him. If JC is the better LT find another place on the line for Jonah. If Jonah is the better LT find an upgrade somewhere. It’s still a line that left a lot to be desired even when healthy.

[BengalsBong]

(01-30-2023, 06:57 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: You think a team is gonna trade for a $12.5 mil LT who led the league in sacks allowed & dislocated BOTH kneecaps last year AND can walk after the year? 

LC shoukd be good to go come August. 

If the Bengals ok it I think Jonah can work out a longer-term contract before he is traded with the new team.

[SladeX]

I made it a point to watch Carman on a few plays, and he held up well.

[Sled21]

Carman has gone from game day inactive to placing himself squarely into a starting LT competition. That said, Jonah's problem at LT is getting bull rushed. He's ok with speed guys, but does not seem to have the anchor against rushers coming through him. I don't expect that to improve with his kneecaps popping out of place. THAT does not translate into being able to switch to guard. Carman needs to improve against speed guys, and I think with some offseason work he could do that. Johnah is going to be here next year, whether he can switch sides, or becomes an expensive backup, but he'll be here. People wanting to trade him have to realize every other team in the NFL watched him struggle when healthy this year, and have access to his injury reports.

[Ell Prez]

(01-31-2023, 03:32 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: For the millionth time they already picked up Jonah’s 5th year. It would cost 12 million in dead cap to cut him.

Ok, and after his 5th year option. Don’t resign him.

[Boomer Anderson]

Carman looks way better at LT than LG. Seems more natural there.
He can’t be much worse than Jonah. We going to pay him 12 million? That’s 1 million per sack allowed. Lol

[Big_Ern]

Need a rt too. Maybe one is the answer there

[phil413]

(01-31-2023, 09:29 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Carman has gone from game day inactive to placing himself squarely into a starting LT competition. That said, Jonah's problem at LT is getting bull rushed. He's ok with speed guys, but does not seem to have the anchor against rushers coming through him. I don't expect that to improve with his kneecaps popping out of place. THAT does not translate into being able to switch to guard. Carman needs to improve against speed guys, and I think with some offseason work he could do that. Johnah is going to be here next year, whether he can switch sides, or becomes an expensive backup, but he'll be here. People wanting to trade him have to realize every other team in the NFL watched him struggle when healthy this year, and have access to his injury reports.

Yeah Jonah will be here, we really need to find out why he regressed this year.  If he was playing hurt or is being sloppy in technique this late it needs addresed.  His skill set is more of a LT and Carman more of a RT, but you worry about moving JC again since he played decent the last few games at his position from college.

If I'm looking at this correctly, Collins saves 3.9M if cut.  He's better than what they get on the open market for that price, but he hopefully he recovers well.  I think the position still needs long term clarity, so they likely take a pick by the 4th.  You could be looking at:

LT Williams/Rookie by 4th
LG Volmer/cut vet around 2M
C Karras/Hill
RG Cappa/Adeniji 
RT Carman/Collins/Smith
Or Carman and Williams swap

We just have to get healthy.  Collins and Williams aren't what we thought we'd have but they both be back.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-31-2023, 03:32 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: For the millionth time they already picked up Jonah’s 5th year. It would cost 12 million in dead cap to cut him.

Yeah, I could see us trading Jonah though with Jackson actually showing up and playing well.

We can add depth in the Draft at OT, that is the way to roll anyways. Add your starters in FA.

If we keep Jonah around this year let him test FA while we find our future stud LT. It could be Carman, who knows.

Definitely love the way he mauls in the run game, he was our best OL in the AFCC game.

[casear2727]

(01-30-2023, 06:57 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: You think a team is gonna trade for a $12.5 mil LT who led the league in sacks allowed & dislocated BOTH kneecaps last year AND can walk after the year? 

LC shoukd be good to go come August. 

I don't see any way in the world LC is ready by August.  Thanksgiving would be difficult IMO.

[casear2727]

(01-30-2023, 06:44 PM)J24 Wrote: They can trade him and that team would pick up the option.

(01-31-2023, 12:47 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: I’d trade him. He’s been a huge disappointment and I think Carman has better talent and long term potential.

Find Gettleman and grab another BJ Hill for another Billy Price.

(01-31-2023, 04:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, I could see us trading Jonah though with Jackson actually showing up and playing well.

We can add depth in the Draft at OT, that is the way to roll anyways. Add your starters in FA.

If we keep Jonah around this year let him test FA while we find our future stud LT. It could be Carman, who knows.

Definitely love the way he mauls in the run game, he was our best OL in the AFCC game.

What NFL team is dumb enough to give any value for a OT that is the league leader in sacks, is injury prone, and should probably be a guard?

[casear2727]

(01-31-2023, 03:59 PM)phil413 Wrote: Yeah Jonah will be here, we really need to find out why he regressed this year.  If he was playing hurt or is being sloppy in technique this late it needs addresed.  His skill set is more of a LT and Carman more of a RT, but you worry about moving JC again since he played decent the last few games at his position from college.

If I'm looking at this correctly, Collins saves 3.9M if cut.  He's better than what they get on the open market for that price, but he hopefully he recovers well.  I think the position still needs long term clarity, so they likely take a pick by the 4th.  You could be looking at:

LT Williams/Rookie by 4th
LG Volmer/cut vet around 2M
C Karras/Hill
RG Cappa/Adeniji 
RT Carman/Collins/Smith
Or Carman and Williams swap

We just have to get healthy.  Collins and Williams aren't what we thought we'd have but they both be back.  

We cannot cut LC while he is hurt thus he will count against the cap all season.

I would prefer that we leave Williams and Carmen on the left side as we have a much better chance of drafting a top RT than LT in this draft.

I do not see Adeniji back guard, need to draft some depth there, preferably a Center/Guard combo guy, Hill has been awful as well.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-31-2023, 08:12 PM)casear2727 Wrote: We cannot cut LC while he is hurt thus he will count against the cap all season.

I would prefer that we leave Williams and Carmen on the left side as we have a much better chance of drafting a top RT than LT in this draft.

I do not see Adeniji back guard, need to draft some depth there, preferably a Center/Guard combo guy, Hill has been awful as well.

All I know is IMHO anyways, the job fixing the Oline still isn't done. We have to have better depth. Adeniji isn't it. And I'm not comfortable relying on Williams and Collins to be our starters with no plan B, especially at RT.

[casear2727]

(01-31-2023, 08:21 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: All I know is IMHO anyways, the job fixing the Oline still isn't done. We have to have better depth. Adeniji isn't it. And I'm not comfortable relying on Williams and Collins to be our starters with no plan B, especially at RT.

There will be at least one of these 2 available to us in the 1st:

Darnell Wright or Dawand Jones - these are the best RT's in the draft.  No need to switch sides, plug and play for the next decade.  Let Carmen and Jonah battle for LT.

[bengaloo]

Its a no brainer for me. Jonah has to go. Dude gives up a lot of pressures and sacks, and was getting his ass handed to him in a bad way before Carman came in. Once Carman came in, the OL settled down and looked better. Every drop back wasnt a pressure at that point. Any upgrade over Jonah will help.

[Boomer Anderson]

(01-31-2023, 08:48 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Its a no brainer for me. Jonah has to go. Dude gives up a lot of pressures and sacks, and was getting his ass handed to him in a bad way before Carman came in. Once Carman came in, the OL settled down and looked better. Every drop back wasnt a pressure at that point. Any upgrade over Jonah will help.

Agreed. But I guess since we picked up his 5th year option maybe we can let him battle with Volson for LG or maybe play RT until LC is ready. Regardless he is probably the worst LT in the league.