Jackson Carman or Jonah Williams

[bengaloo]

(01-31-2023, 08:55 PM)Boomer Anderson Wrote: Agreed. But I guess since we picked up his 5th year option maybe we can let him battle with Volson for LG or maybe play RT until LC is ready. Regardless he is probably the worst LT in the league.

Totally agree. If he can pick it up, G fits his body type and short arms better. Im not against trying him there, but he is no starting NFL LT for sure. 

[The D.O.Z.]

Since his option is picked up, may as well battle it out in OTAs and TC. I hope they use an early pick on a RT. A guy who has played RIGHT tackle exclusively. Not a guy who has to be moved there. I don’t see them dropping Lael. I also don’t see them spending more in FA on the position when they have in house guys who have been in the system and in the fire so to speak for two plus years now. But we’re gonna need an insurance policy for Lael regardless, due to his availability, one that can hold the fort until Lael gets back THEN see what we got, where we’re at.

[Frank Booth]

(01-31-2023, 09:15 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Totally agree. If he can pick it up, G fits his body type and short arms better. Im not against trying him there, but he is no starting NFL LT for sure. 

he is a starting LT. Just near the average/slightly below average mark. There are 32 starters at LT in the NFL

[J24]

(01-31-2023, 08:09 PM)casear2727 Wrote: What NFL team is dumb enough to give any value for a OT that is the league leader in sacks, is injury prone, and should probably be a guard?

There is belief around the league that he could be an elite G in this league. 

[Sled21]

(01-31-2023, 09:54 PM)J24 Wrote: There is belief around the league that he could be an elite G in this league. 

Willams lacks the power to hold his position against a strong rush at tackle. He will get destroyed at guard. You think Adeniji was on roller skates at guard, just wait.

[XenoMorph]

(01-30-2023, 06:34 PM)J24 Wrote: The biggest surprise development (for me at least ) has been the development of Carman at LT. He might not be the next Munoz but the guy filled in at LT and Jonah wasn't really missed.

I think Jonah is the better player but 2 questions remain.

1.) Is he worth the 12 million dollars  that is owed to him next season or is that money better spent elsewhere ?

2.) Will the Bengals commit to him longterm?

Edit- IF cut the Bengals will not gain any cap room would have to be traded for that to happen.

as we know OL is hard to fine...    If we cant upgrade Williams i keep him

[CincyWestside]

I loved how Carmen fit in at LT. Seems more natural to him than forcing him to play LG. With Collins injury so late in the season, I think we start next season with Williams at RT. Draft some late round OL to build out depth and then Collins/Williams can move around for injuries and when Collins returns from injury.

All I know is that Adeniji isn't it for a depth piece outside of practice squad

[*Go Cards*]

Keep them both and then draft a RT early, problem solved and we've got O-line depth.

[Frank Booth]

(02-01-2023, 09:03 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Keep them both and then draft a RT early, problem solved and we've got O-line depth.

would jonah throw a fit if he's the back up on his final year?

not that I care, im just curious

[007BengalsFan]

(02-01-2023, 09:26 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: would jonah throw a fit if he's the back up on his final year?

not that I care, im just curious

He might but what could he do about it?  If he gets beat out by someone better, that's just football.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-31-2023, 08:09 PM)casear2727 Wrote: What NFL team is dumb enough to give any value for a OT that is the league leader in sacks, is injury prone, and should probably be a guard?

Whatchutalkinbout? This is Madden, holmes. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-31-2023, 08:12 PM)casear2727 Wrote: We cannot cut LC while he is hurt thus he will count against the cap all season.

I would prefer that we leave Williams and Carmen on the left side as we have a much better chance of drafting a top RT than LT in this draft.

I do not see Adeniji back guard, need to draft some depth there, preferably a Center/Guard combo guy, Hill has been awful as well.

IMO, the only 2 spots on the Oline that are locks are Karras and Cappa. 

I wouldn't give Jonah anything back by default. Let him and Carman fight for the starting LT spot and the loser is the backup. All things considered, i think that sets them up pretty well there. 

If this team is serious about protecting Joe, they need to look for a solid upgrade to Volson. I'd look for a FA that won't break the bank (lol, good luck there, right?). If there's someone in the draft that could fight Volson for the spot, so be it but regardless, Volson needs to improve a lot in order for him to be consistently good. 

I think they can afford to keep Collins around until he's "healthy" and i wish i knew anything about who is coming out this year that could step in and start day 1. I tossed around the thought of moving either Jonah or Carmen over there but i don't think that's something i'd do right now. Worst case scenario, find someone like a Rieff, a solid inexpensive guy. D'Ante Smith is an unknown right now. 

I don't really care if Adeniji is even on the team going forward. He's shown more than enough that he can't be trusted in anything more than mop up duty. Scharping is off and on and Hill hasn't played enough to show how he can do long term, but i can't say that i'm real hopeful with him. Spain is still out there begging to get back on the team and he was solid most of the year when he was here and he was pretty versatile. If he can beat out Volson, fine. At least Volson would be a decent backup. Spain left a bad taste in people's mouths with the SB performance but he played well most of the year. 

To me, offensive line needs to be priority #1 (with a bullet) and everything else is secondary. 

[casear2727]

(02-02-2023, 05:09 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: IMO, the only 2 spots on the Oline that are locks are Karras and Cappa. 

I wouldn't give Jonah anything back by default. Let him and Carman fight for the starting LT spot and the loser is the backup. All things considered, i think that sets them up pretty well there. 

If this team is serious about protecting Joe, they need to look for a solid upgrade to Volson. I'd look for a FA that won't break the bank (lol, good luck there, right?). If there's someone in the draft that could fight Volson for the spot, so be it but regardless, Volson needs to improve a lot in order for him to be consistently good. 

I think they can afford to keep Collins around until he's "healthy" and i wish i knew anything about who is coming out this year that could step in and start day 1. I tossed around the thought of moving either Jonah or Carmen over there but i don't think that's something i'd do right now. Worst case scenario, find someone like a Rieff, a solid inexpensive guy. D'Ante Smith is an unknown right now. 

I don't really care if Adeniji is even on the team going forward. He's shown more than enough that he can't be trusted in anything more than mop up duty. Scharping is off and on and Hill hasn't played enough to show how he can do long term, but i can't say that i'm real hopeful with him. Spain is still out there begging to get back on the team and he was solid most of the year when he was here and he was pretty versatile. If he can beat out Volson, fine. At least Volson would be a decent backup. Spain left a bad taste in people's mouths with the SB performance but he played well most of the year. 

To me, offensive line needs to be priority #1 (with a bullet) and everything else is secondary. 

We almost have to give Volson a chance to see how much growth he has at LG, we need so many guys on rookie deals as possible.  I see no way LC is ready for the season, I am pushing heavy for Dawand Jones or Darnell Wright early in the draft and we can forget about RT for awhile.

Carmen & Williams hold down LT, we could really use a CB and a S. An edge rusher this draft should be a must with so many, and a TE.  We also have zero depth at IOL, a Guard-Center combo would be great.

[*Synric*]

(02-02-2023, 05:17 AM)casear2727 Wrote: We almost have to give Volson a chance to see how much growth he has at LG, we need so many guys on rookie deals as possible.  I see no way LC is ready for the season, I am pushing heavy for Dawand Jones or Darnell Wright early in the draft and we can forget about RT for awhile.

Carmen & Williams hold down LT, we could really use a CB and a S. An edge rusher this draft should be a must with so many, and a TE.  We also have zero depth at IOL, a Guard-Center combo would be great.

Dawand Jones had a great first day at the Senior Bowl. So much so in a single day in a weak OT class we are already seeing him getting mocked top 15. Darnell Wright on the other hand an up and down day 1 then looked like hot garbage today. I expect Wright to drop especially after testing. 

Edit PS: Mike Tomlin was near Jones that entire first practice. The Steelers pick 17.

[Bronxbengal]

CarMAN at LT and Williams at RT. Don’t understand the hate for Volson at LG. He played average and for a rookie that’s pretty good. Karris and Cappa’s leadership makes the line better and Volson will get better.


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[casear2727]

(02-02-2023, 08:25 AM)Bronxbengal Wrote: CarMAN at LT and Williams at RT.  Don’t understand the hate for Volson at LG.  He played average and for a rookie that’s pretty good.   Karris and Cappa’s leadership makes the line better and Volson will get better.


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Switching sides is not that easy.  

Williams is already a 12M cap hit after a terrible season and this is his last year.  We need some stability.

We must stick with Volson and hope he improves.

[casear2727]

(02-02-2023, 05:23 AM)Synric Wrote: Dawand Jones had a great first day at the Senior Bowl. So much so in a single day in a weak OT class we are already seeing him getting mocked top 15. Darnell Wright on the other hand an up and down day 1 then looked like hot garbage today. I expect Wright to drop especially after testing. 

Edit PS: Mike Tomlin was near Jones that entire first practice. The Steelers pick 17.

Who has Jones in the Top 15?  That is very high for a RT.

If so that could push Broderick Jones or Anton Harrison to us, perhaps we look at Cody Mauch who may actually be a better guard...  I'm not out on Wright after one day of all star practice either.

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-02-2023, 05:17 AM)casear2727 Wrote: We almost have to give Volson a chance to see how much growth he has at LG, we need so many guys on rookie deals as possible.  I see no way LC is ready for the season, I am pushing heavy for Dawand Jones or Darnell Wright early in the draft and we can forget about RT for awhile.

Carmen & Williams hold down LT, we could really use a CB and a S. An edge rusher this draft should be a must with so many, and a TE.  We also have zero depth at IOL, a Guard-Center combo would be great.

My only concern is, 3 years now, Joe was injured year 1, beat up year 2 and had to try and navigate a backup line in the playoffs year 3. Certainly, injuries are unpredictable but having Adeniji come off the bench has been a deathknell two years in a row now. Scharping was meh-ish and Carman was a pleasant surprise. 

It would be nice if Volson continues to progress and develops a better base but i don't think i want to go into the year just giving him the job. Whether it's a drafted guy or Spain, i think we can work on that spot without sacrificing too much. 

I agree that Collins will be a while. If they look for their RT in round 1, i'd be good with it and Collins would be a solid fall back option if that guy doesn't pan out as well as hoped. 

I'm just in the camp that wants the Oline to be the major priority right now. 

P.S. what the hell is up with me typing "is" instead of "if" all the time? You can't see it because i change it during the proof read...but it's really annoying.

[Joelist]

I also am more than ready to replace Adeniji. I think had we a competent RT Scharping would have held up better also. We could let Adeniji go and backfill with either a draft pick or a qualified Free Agent so that we aren't is desperate straits if Collins is not ready. Jonah is another question mark as he tailed off a lot (mainly sue to two dislocated kneecaps) and they need to be sure these injuries have not permanently removed his ability to anchor (which was a lot of his issue this last year - the dislocated knee hampered his pivot and made it very hard for him to anchor correctly).

[casear2727]

(02-02-2023, 01:36 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: My only concern is, 3 years now, Joe was injured year 1, beat up year 2 and had to try and navigate a backup line in the playoffs year 3. Certainly, injuries are unpredictable but having Adeniji come off the bench has been a deathknell two years in a row now. Scharping was meh-ish and Carman was a pleasant surprise. 

It would be nice if Volson continues to progress and develops a better base but i don't think i want to go into the year just giving him the job. Whether it's a drafted guy or Spain, i think we can work on that spot without sacrificing too much. 

I agree that Collins will be a while. If they look for their RT in round 1, i'd be good with it and Collins would be a solid fall back option if that guy doesn't pan out as well as hoped. 

I'm just in the camp that wants the Oline to be the major priority right now. 

P.S. what the hell is up with me typing "is" instead of "if" all the time? You can't see it because i change it during the proof read...but it's really annoying.

(02-02-2023, 01:58 PM)Joelist Wrote: I also am more than ready to replace Adeniji. I think had we a competent RT Scharping would have held up better also. We could let Adeniji go and backfill with either a draft pick or a qualified Free Agent so that we aren't is desperate straits if Collins is not ready. Jonah is another question mark as he tailed off a lot (mainly sue to two dislocated kneecaps) and they need to be sure these injuries have not permanently removed his ability to anchor (which was a lot of his issue this last year - the dislocated knee hampered his pivot and made it very hard for him to anchor correctly).

Adeniji simply falls short of being just average.   

I'm in no way crowning Volson as a high quality starter, I simply see the need at RT as absolutely urgent and the massive ned to have guys on rookie deals perform.

Our RT possibilities are currently: Adeniji, injured LC, moving Carmen back to the right side... maybe moving Jonah. 
An extremely good RT can be drafted even, if we have to reach.

We can get by with Jonah/Carmen at LT for this year, Volson, Karras, Cappa, a stud RT with LC not being rushed (we let him go after this season).

My draft priorities:
Tier 1:  RT/CB
Tier 2:  LT/Edge/S - BPA (assuming Bell comes back)
Tier 3:  IOL/TE/LB - BPA (assuming Hurst and Wilcox/Sample comes back)