The 2023 off-season - what do you want to see?

[t3r3e3]

(01-31-2023, 01:29 PM)Synric Wrote: Replacing D'Ante Smith saves you zero money. That depth position would be filled by a player of similar caliber for a nearly identical contract.

Re-sign: Hurst, Bell, Wilson, Perine, only re-sign Pratt if the price is right.

Cut: Mixon, possibly Boyd, or trade for mid-round picks

Extend: Burrow, Tee

Sign secondary, OL, and LB depth in FA

Draft replacement RB, P, and WR3, draft d line, o line and CB depth

[WeezyBengal]

(01-31-2023, 10:16 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Williams/Carman at LT and Collins and a draft pick at RT? Yes.

If that is the plan going into next year then everyone in the FO should be fired. 

This isn't a "throw some mud against the wall and see what sticks" year. We are in a SB window. 

Williams was bad this year and Carman is still a complete crap shoot with a super limited sample size. Collins may not even be on the team next year and no way he starts the year healthy. A draft pick is an unknown quantity and a complete liability. 

OL is THE most important aspect of this offense in order for it and Joe to perform the best it can perform and it's kept us from winning two Super Bowls. I'm done having shit players on it. 

[*ochocincos*]

(02-02-2023, 03:47 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: If that is the plan going into next year then everyone in the FO should be fired. 

This isn't a "throw some mud against the wall and see what sticks" year. We are in a SB window. 

Williams was bad this year and Carman is still a complete crap shoot with a super limited sample size. Collins may not even be on the team next year and no way he starts the year healthy. A draft pick is an unknown quantity and a complete liability. 

OL is THE most important aspect of this offense in order for it and Joe to perform the best it can perform and it's kept us from winning two Super Bowls. I'm done having shit players on it. 

So you don't want to gamble on a draft pick, you don't like the current players...so it's FA or bust for you then, right?

Who exactly in FA should the Bengals go get (assuming the player doesn't get tagged by their current team anyway), how much will those players cost, and how will the Bengals be able to fit that into their opening cap space accounting $10 mill (at least) will be reserved for draft picks and injuries and also other positions to fill or re-sign?
And don't tell me the Bengals don't HAVE to hold that much, because they always do.

Looking at the impending FAs, I don't see much optimism for upgrade other than MAYBE Orlando Brown at LT, Mike McGlinchey at RT.
Orlando Brown only 4 sacks but he allowed 47 total pressures this past season, which is actually more than Jonah Williams' 43.
McGlinchey 27 total pressures including 6 sacks. Collins had 34 total pressures but 1 less sack than McGlinchey.
Collins played roughly 1.5 less games worth of snaps than McGlinchey.

For Brown and McGlinchey, I'd be highly confident both get offers for $15+ mill APY each. Possibly $20+ mill.

Here's the list of FAs btw (before tags could come into play) - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/tackle/all/

And I think it's a pipe dream to think the Bengals would actually make a trade for an upper-tier OT. They won't want to give up draft picks when they have some important guys coming up on big $$$$ extensions.

[J24]

I want the Front Office to be smart and proactive this offseason. Be aggressive with cap casualty FA, be aggressive in Trade markets, and don't underestimate the importance of what made you successful.

[WeezyBengal]

(02-02-2023, 04:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: So you don't want to gamble on a draft pick, you don't like the current players...so it's FA or bust for you then, right?

Who exactly in FA should the Bengals go get (assuming the player doesn't get tagged by their current team anyway), how much will those players cost, and how will the Bengals be able to fit that into their opening cap space accounting $10 mill (at least) will be reserved for draft picks and injuries and also other positions to fill or re-sign?
And don't tell me the Bengals don't HAVE to hold that much, because they always do.

Looking at the impending FAs, I don't see much optimism for upgrade other than MAYBE Orlando Brown at LT, Mike McGlinchey at RT.
Orlando Brown only 4 sacks but he allowed 47 total pressures this past season, which is actually more than Jonah Williams' 43.
McGlinchey 27 total pressures including 6 sacks. Collins had 34 total pressures but 1 less sack than McGlinchey.
Collins played roughly 1.5 less games worth of snaps than McGlinchey.

For Brown and McGlinchey, I'd be highly confident both get offers for $15+ mill APY each. Possibly $20+ mill.

Here's the list of FAs btw (before tags could come into play) - https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/tackle/all/

And I think it's a pipe dream to think the Bengals would actually make a trade for an upper-tier OT. They won't want to give up draft picks when they have some important guys coming up on big $$$$ extensions.

Why is trading for a quality player a pipe dream? They have done it numberous times in recent years. BJ Hill, Cordy Glenn, Fred Johnson. 

The Chiefs traded for Orlando Brown a few years ago to protect Mahomes. The Bengals should be looking to do the same thing. 

[*ochocincos*]

(02-02-2023, 04:48 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Why is trading for a quality player a pipe dream? They have done it numberous times in recent years. BJ Hill, Cordy Glenn, Fred Johnson. 

The Chiefs traded for Orlando Brown a few years ago to protect Mahomes. The Bengals should be looking to do the same thing. 

I didn't say a "quality player," I said "an upper-tier OT," which is what you seem to want.
Bengals don't make trades for established stud starters.

BJ Hill was not considered to be a starter when he was traded for, he was considered a rotational guy with Ogunjobi.
Fred Johnson was not good.
Cordy Glenn...yes he was a starter and upgrade over Ogbuehi, but he ended up not being that great for the Bengals when all was said and done.


Let me ask you about trades then - Who would you trade for and what compensation would you give up that's fair to the other team?

[Luvnit2]

(02-02-2023, 04:48 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Why is trading for a quality player a pipe dream? They have done it numberous times in recent years. BJ Hill, Cordy Glenn, Fred Johnson. 

The Chiefs traded for Orlando Brown a few years ago to protect Mahomes. The Bengals should be looking to do the same thing. 

I am all for getting a great LT. The issue is the Bengals already picked up Jonah's 5th year option, 12 million + guaranteed for 1 year.

They would have to find a team to trade Williams to which I don't think would be easy.

Otherwise we would be paying the tackles big money:

The new guy in a trade
Jonah
Collins

How can we do that and lock up Tee and Joey B. too?

[WeezyBengal]

(02-02-2023, 04:54 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am all for getting a great LT. The issue is the Bengals already picked up Jonah's 5th year option, 12 million + guaranteed for 1 year.

They would have to find a team to trade Williams to which I don't think would be easy.

Otherwise we would be paying the tackles big money:

The new guy in a trade
Jonah
Collins

How can we do that and lock up Tee and Joey B. too?

I am fine with Jonah at LT going into next year. I want to upgrade LG or RT. 

[007BengalsFan]

(01-31-2023, 01:39 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Bold - Bates is not under contract, cutting Mixon n 2023 only saves 7.2 million in cap space, he has 5.5 million in dead cap if we cut or trade him.

According to spotrac.com if Mixon is released after June 1 that saves 10 million in cap space.  That is 10 million that could be put to better use like a new RT.  Mixon has to go.  He is just not worth that much when the offense has more important needs.

[007BengalsFan]

(02-02-2023, 04:58 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I am fine with Jonah at LT going into next year. I want to upgrade LG or RT. 

We absolutely have to address RT this off-season.  Collins is hurt and won't be playing.  That leaves the team stuck with Adeniji again.  Does anybody think that's a good idea?  Get rid of Mixon (and Boyd if needed) to free up some cap space and get a free agent stud RT.

[Housh]

Mixon loves it here. I think he takes a discount

[Frank Booth]

(02-02-2023, 07:42 PM)Housh Wrote: Mixon loves it here. I think he takes a discount

I’d rather the bengals move on.

[Bengal Dude]

(02-02-2023, 07:51 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I’d rather the bengals move on.

I think they'll move on from Mixon if they can re-sign Perine. No matter what, I fully expect them to draft a potential feature back.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-31-2023, 02:46 PM)Joelist Wrote: Remember we will be drafting 28th, so absent trades we are not positioned to get a real stud for either OL or EDGE.

Correct, because TJ Watt, Creed Humphrey and countless others weren't on the board at that pick.

The reality is you never know who will be there.  

[Sled21]

(02-02-2023, 04:58 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I am fine with Jonah at LT going into next year. I want to upgrade LG or RT. 

Volson is the LG going forward. He was not the issue this year and is getting better each and every game. Karras predicted him to be a top 5 guard in the league in a year or 2. 

[Frank Booth]

(02-03-2023, 12:40 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Volson is the LG going forward. He was not the issue this year and is getting better each and every game. Karras predicted him to be a top 5 guard in the league in a year or 2. 

More irrational love for a mediocre guard

Volson is easily replaceable. He will be upgraded if need be. If Cincy feels good with Carman and Jonah at LT an RT next season, which they very well may, Volson will have to be replaced. Jonah is overall ok, and still a legit starting tackle in this league. Carman showed some promise, and is a 2nd round pick.

Volson is currently on a dirt cheap rookie contract, and frankly, though he played well for a small school 4th round rookie, he still wasn’t good.

[Sled21]

(02-03-2023, 12:48 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: More irrational love for a mediocre guard

Volson is easily replaceable. He will be upgraded if need be. If Cincy feels good with Carman and Jonah at LT an RT next season, which they very well may, Volson will have to be replaced. Jonah is overall ok, and still a legit starting tackle in this league. Carman showed some promise, and is a 2nd round pick.

Volson is currently on a dirt cheap rookie contract, and frankly, though he played well for a small school 4th round rookie, he still wasn’t good.

Volson starts at LG next season... bank on it. 

[Hammerstripes]

(02-03-2023, 12:48 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: More irrational love for a mediocre guard

Volson is easily replaceable. He will be upgraded if need be. If Cincy feels good with Carman and Jonah at LT an RT next season, which they very well may, Volson will have to be replaced. Jonah is overall ok, and still a legit starting tackle in this league. Carman showed some promise, and is a 2nd round pick.

Volson is currently on a dirt cheap rookie contract, and frankly, though he played well for a small school 4th round rookie, he still wasn’t good.

LOL, come on, he led the league in sacks given up.  He's not a legit starting tackle in this league.

[Frank Booth]

(02-03-2023, 12:51 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: LOL, come on, he led the league in sacks given up.  He's not a legit starting tackle in this league.

Jonah Williams is a legit starting left tackle in this league at the end of the day. I’d say he falls between 24th-14th in terms of left tackles who are starters

Which is a starting left tackle since there are 32 of them

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-03-2023, 12:51 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: LOL, come on, he led the league in sacks given up.  He's not a legit starting tackle in this league.

Jonah was #1 and #2 for starting tackles in most sacks given up the last 2 years and he was top 9 in total pressure for each year. 

If you put any stock in grades, he regressed massively this year.