The elephant in the room, again, Oline

[Hammerstripes]

(02-03-2023, 12:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

Well, we beat the Chiefs with them.

[Frank Booth]

You’re gonna need a really good o-line if you want to win the super bowl. In case you haven’t noticed, the best NFC teams have the best trenches.

Bengals are gonna need an o-line that can consistently open up running lanes. They don’t have that currently, nor did they have that last year

[Frank Booth]

(02-03-2023, 12:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

Hammer stripes thinks Volson is this great guard even though he’s worse at his position than Jonah is, but he thinks Jonah is the worst lol

It’s unexplainable. Maybe mental illness. Who knows

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-03-2023, 12:59 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Well, we beat the Chiefs with them.

We also beat the Chiefs in 2021 with Quentin Spain, Hakeem Adeniji, and Trey Hopkins. Doesn't mean I thought they were a good enough trio to beat any team in the NFL. Two of the three were out of the NFL in 2022 and the third is Adeniji.

Karras and Cappa are pretty decent, but they're not great. Volson is bad.

[3wt]

(02-02-2023, 06:06 PM)casear2727 Wrote: If we are serious we can make the money work for a free agent.

If we are serious we should be willing to draft a tackle in the 1st round.

Agreed.   There is concern about making the money work for a free agent given the approaching financial needs to keep the team together.   But it still looms as a necessary expense.  It is the number one thing holding this team back.

And I think there is a need to take offensive lineman in the first 2 rounds.   Our line is just killing us - both in the run and the pass.   Volson surprised with his performance, but it was not great.  And I have no idea what his ceiling is.  But you would think we know what we have by now.

And DL is still a need given the inability to get enough pressure on Mahomes.  I personally like the idea of drafting a player who can increase interior pressure.   I think we have good edge guys (though you can always have better).   And the run stopping interior is good.   Just would like another guy in the middle who can both push the pocket and penetrate.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-03-2023, 01:01 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Hammer stripes thinks Volson is this great guard even though he’s worse at his position than Jonah is, but he thinks Jonah is the worst lol

It’s unexplainable. Maybe mental illness. Who knows

Never said that, but if we are talking FACTS,

Jonah gave up the most sacks in the league.  HE was the WORST at that.  It's not hard to figure out.  

Volson was a rookie and he played pretty good this year all things considered.  Hell, he had a damn near perfect game against KC in the regular season.  I don't think it's out of the question to think he'll get better after a full offseason and one year in the system, unlike your golden boy who has been way below average since he's been here.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-03-2023, 01:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: We also beat the Chiefs in 2021 with Quentin Spain, Hakeem Adeniji, and Trey Hopkins. Doesn't mean I thought they were a good enough trio to beat any team in the NFL. Two of the three were out of the NFL in 2022 and the third is Adeniji.

Karras and Cappa are pretty decent, but they're not great. Volson is bad.

Karras and Cappa are guys you can win a Super Bowl with, they've already shown that.

Volson was a rookie.  The weak links on this line are the tackles and it's not even close

[Frank Booth]

(02-03-2023, 01:12 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Karras and Cappa are guys you can win a Super Bowl with, they've already shown that.

Volson was a rookie.  The weak links on this line are the tackles and it's not even close

Volson was overall the weakest link. I hate to break the news to you.

Volson can be replaced. The bengals aren’t worried about Volson’s contract being used as a back up. He’s not getting paid much at all

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-03-2023, 01:12 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Karras and Cappa are guys you can win a Super Bowl with, they've already shown that.

Volson was a rookie.  The weak links on this line are the tackles and it's not even close

They actually haven't. 

-Karras played a grand total of 4 snaps on offense in both SB postseasons combined (all in the wildcard), and 0 in both SBs combined.
-Cappa got injured Wildcard Weekend of the Bucs SB season and spent the rest of the postseason on the IR.

2022 was the first time either of them ever played a snap on offense in a Conference Championship game. Neither has ever played a single snap on offense in the Super Bowl.

I don't think they're a problem on this OL, but that statement is just factually wrong. The only thing they've shown was that Tom Brady has won a LOT of Super Bowl rings for a lot of guys who didn't actually play in the Super Bowl. Lol

[Frank Booth]

(02-03-2023, 01:21 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They actually haven't. 

-Karras played a grand total of 4 snaps on offense in both SB postseasons combined (all in the wildcard), and 0 in both SBs combined.
-Cappa got injured Wildcard Weekend of the Bucs SB season and spent the rest of the postseason on the IR.

2022 was the first time either of them ever played a snap on offense in a Conference Championship game. Neither has ever played a single snap on offense in the Super Bowl.

I don't think they're a problem on this OL, but that statement is just factually wrong. The only thing they've shown was that Tom Brady has won a LOT of Super Bowl rings for a lot of guys who didn't actually play in the Super Bowl. Lol

Cappa and Karras are good. You can’t have a middling left tackle, a poor right tackle, and a mediocre left guard surrounding Cappa and Karras if you really want to win the super bowl.

The NFC is all about defensive lines. The bengals probably want to roll with Jonah and Carman next year, so upgrading the left guard spot is the most obvious move. If you can find a player who is as good as Cappa or Karras, the o-line as a whole becomes way better.

[casear2727]

(02-03-2023, 01:28 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Cappa and Karras are good. You can’t have a middling left tackle, a poor right tackle, and a mediocre left guard surrounding Cappa and Karras if you really want to win the super bowl.

The NFC is all about defensive lines. The bengals probably want to roll with Jonah and Carman next year, so upgrading the left guard spot is the most obvious move. If you can find a player who is as good as Cappa or Karras, the o-line as a whole becomes way better.

Left guard over right tackle?  LC is doubtful to be ready IMO.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-03-2023, 01:28 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: The bengals probably want to roll with Jonah and Carman next year, so upgrading the left guard spot is the most obvious move. If you can find a player who is as good as Cappa or Karras, the o-line as a whole becomes way better.

There's 3 good-to-great Cs in FA this year. If you sign one of them, you upgrade the C spot, then Karras gets moved back to LG so you upgrade that spot too. Then you can draft RT early. Easiest way to upgrade the OL, and then you just have whatever-the-F is going on at LT with Jonah and Carman.

(02-03-2023, 01:41 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Left guard over right tackle?  LC is doubtful to be ready IMO.

Both. The right answer is both. Lol

[Frank Booth]

(02-03-2023, 01:41 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Left guard over right tackle?  LC is doubtful to be ready IMO.

I figure with Jonah and Carmen, and the high draft picks both of them are, the tackle spots aren’t the priority that LG is in the eyes of the front office

Move Jonah to RT and make Carmen the LT seems to be the obvious fix at first glance. The Carmen sample may be too small though, idk.

But if the bengals prioritize making a move to upgrade one of the tackle spots, that’d be fine too

[casear2727]

(02-03-2023, 01:48 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There's 3 good-to-great Cs in FA this year. If you sign one of them, you upgrade the C spot, then Karras gets moved back to LG so you upgrade that spot too. Then you can draft RT early. Easiest way to upgrade the OL, and then you just have whatever-the-F is going on at LT with Jonah and Carman.


Both. The right answer is both. Lol

I dont see any way they move Karras, even if it is a good idea, they seem to love him being the QB/Captain of the oline.

[casear2727]

(02-03-2023, 01:49 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I figure with Jonah and Carmen, the tackle spots aren’t the priority that LG is in the eyes of the front office

Move Jonah to RT and make Carmen the LT

But if the bengals make a move to upgrade one of the tackle spots, that’d be fine too

I think we are way to quick to move a tackle to the other side.  I can see a guard as the plant foot isnt nearly as deep, but a tackle requires full muscle memory from foot to hip to core to even punch arm.... Carmen sure struggled on the right side.  Jonah is on his last year as well so who knows his response to that suggestion?

[Hammerstripes]

(02-03-2023, 01:49 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I figure with Jonah and Carmen, and the high draft picks both of them are, the tackle spots aren’t the priority that LG is in the eyes of the front office

Move Jonah to RT and make Carmen the LT seems to be the obvious fix at first glance. The Carmen sample may be too small though, idk.

But if the bengals prioritize making a move to upgrade one of the tackle spots, that’d be fine too

From what I've gathered the coaching staff is more than happy with Volson.  I'd be shocked if he's replaced in the starting lineup.

[Frank Booth]

(02-03-2023, 01:55 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I think we are way to quick to move a tackle to the other side.  I can see a guard as the plant foot isnt nearly as deep, but a tackle requires full muscle memory from foot to hip to core to even punch arm.... Carmen sure struggled on the right side.  Jonah is on his last year as well so who knows his response to that suggestion?

Carmen struggled as a right guard. Not a tackle.

There’s a lot of time to sort this stuff out, but Jonah is a technician, while Carman is a mauler, so I figure Jonah can transition to right tackle easier than Carmen can. Jonah shouldn’t be complaining about it. It’s better than being a guard or a back up when you’re in the final year of a contract

[Frank Booth]

(02-03-2023, 01:57 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: From what I've gathered the coaching staff is more than happy with Volson.  I'd be shocked if he's replaced in the starting lineup.

The coaching staff is happy with Adeniji too. It’s coach speak. They’re not gonna say how they really feel to the public. Don’t be so naive

[Housh]

Upgrade both T spots and this line becomes top 5 overnight.


If Carman is really the answer at LT great but I’m not ready to just gift him a starting spot especially after this year when we did kinda gift him the spot and he just fell apart.



In a perfect world we’d take2 tackles with our 1st four picks and then draft TE and RB with the other 2 of our 1st four picks. Obviously you see how the RB market looks and maybe use that pick on defense but that would be my initial draft day plan.

If i were in charge we would not leave the draft without a TE and a RB.

[Joelist]

The team is going to wait on more definitive word on Collins and also seeing some sign Jonah will regain his ability to anchor. Me, I'd start by getting rid of Adeniji (cannot anchor) and if Jonah is not going to be able to anchor again then once his option year is done let him go too. Collins I kinda think is going away via injury settlement.

The problem is Free Agency is thin at OL and the draft this year is shy on plug and play Tackles, the only ones I know of are also all but certain to be gone when we pick. As such, it may be necessary to swing a trade to address this issue.