Uh oh Joe Mixon

[Soonerpeace]

(02-14-2023, 08:21 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This is getting silly now. My original comment that sent Zac Taylor sig guy into such a tizzy was merely me saying it’s been Lou who’s owned the Chiefs (thought that was a pretty well established fact among our fandom). Our offense has done their part against them (especially the 266 yards/3 TD’s game by Chase), but it’s really been Lou’s 2nd half adjustments that stifled the KC offense that made the difference. Not sure why that’s so controversial to point out.

But let me make it clear so folks aren’t upset and we can move past this; Zac Taylor is a really good coach. I’m very happy we have him.

I was trolling just a little bit

[*Nately120*]

I haven't read through all of this yet, but here is our thread where we predict our records going into 2019. I maintain that we weren't thinking super bowl, but we weren't expecting an unavoidable 2 win season, either.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Record-predictions

[Soonerpeace]

(02-14-2023, 08:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: 2019 wasn't supposed to be a rebuilding year, that's why we didn't trade everyone on the team going into the season.  We rolled into 2019 with hopes that ZT was going to get Dalton back to 2015 form, and use Mixon and Ross in ways Marvin never would.  2019 was a hopeless rebuild in hindsight.

I seriously don't recall us being ready to plummet to the bottom of the NFL going into 2019, I recall us declaring ZT and instant upgrade at HC and our week 1 narrow loss in Seattle to be very promising. 


EDIT - There was a pre-season win totals prediction going into 2019 and I know I said we'd go 8-8. I don't recall many people saying this team would win 2 games.

And 2021 wasn’t suppose to be the biggest turnaround in NFL history.

[*bfine32*]

(02-14-2023, 08:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: 2019 wasn't supposed to be a rebuilding year, that's why we didn't trade everyone on the team going into the season.  We rolled into 2019 with hopes that ZT was going to get Dalton back to 2015 form, and use Mixon and Ross in ways Marvin never would.  2019 was a hopeless rebuild in hindsight.

I seriously don't recall us being ready to plummet to the bottom of the NFL going into 2019, I recall us declaring ZT and instant upgrade at HC and our week 1 narrow loss in Seattle to be very promising. 


EDIT - There was a pre-season win totals prediction going into 2019 and I know I said we'd go 8-8. I don't recall many people saying this team would win 2 games.

Pretty sure you're supporting my point. 

As you asserted folks were optimistic heading into 2019 and when we didn't (hell even benching Andy on his BIRTHDAY!!) folks were done with him. 

Luckily the organization gave him a little longer. 

[*Nately120*]

(02-14-2023, 09:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Pretty sure you're supporting my point. 

As you asserted folks were optimistic heading into 2019 and when we didn't (hell even benching Andy on his BIRTHDAY!!) folks were done with him. 

Luckily the organization gave him a little longer. 

We didn't need to be done with ZT after 2019 because we were done with Dalton and Green and Ross and we were doing a total rebuild in 2020.  2019 was a busted reload, 2020 started the rebuild.  Lucky and all that we kept ZT, sure, but 2019 doesn't get a pass in my eyes.  We didn't go into the season expecting to tank for Tua blow for Burrow.

So 2019 was a bust and I think there was a decent amount of logic to wondering if a guy who takes over what was expected to be a 6-9 win team and starts the year 0-10 and ends the year with 2 wins may not have what it takes to be an NFL coach.  We kept him, 2020 was a bust thanks to Burrow's injury, and then in 2021 we finally had an actual year of football to watch.

I was there...it was a rough stretch of 32 games from 2019 to 2020 and it wasn't easy to tell if we kept ZT because he was the next Chuck Noll or if we were just being lazy.  We had also watched 3 middling seasons of boring losing Marvin football where Marvin himself even wondered why we were staying the course with him.  So yeah, after 5 years of losing, 3 years of which was "why is this HC still here" football with Marvin I can see why people weren't exactly all in on ZT.

[*bfine32*]

(02-14-2023, 10:10 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We didn't need to be done with ZT after 2019 because we were done with Dalton and Green and Ross and we were doing a total rebuild in 2020.  2019 was a busted reload, 2020 started the rebuild.  Lucky and all that we kept ZT, sure, but 2019 doesn't get a pass in my eyes.  We didn't go into the season expecting to tank for Tua blow for Burrow.

So 2019 was a bust and I think there was a decent amount of logic to wondering if a guy who takes over what was expected to be a 6-9 win team and starts the year 0-10 and ends the year with 2 wins may not have what it takes to be an NFL coach.  We kept him, 2020 was a bust thanks to Burrow's injury, and then in 2021 we finally had an actual year of football to watch.

I was there...it was a rough stretch of 32 games from 2019 to 2020 and it wasn't easy to tell if we kept ZT because he was the next Chuck Noll or if we were just being lazy.  We had also watched 3 middling seasons of boring losing Marvin football where Marvin himself even wondered why we were staying the course with him.  So yeah, after 5 years of losing, 3 years of which was "why is this HC still here" football with Marvin I can see why people weren't exactly all in on ZT.

Yeah, as I said, Some were done after 1/2 season. There's really no need for you to keep providing evidence. 

[*Nately120*]

(02-14-2023, 10:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, as I said, Some were done after 1/2 season. There's really no need for you to keep providing evidence. 

I wasn't done with him, I just looked at a guy who started the year 0-11, admitted my "instant upgrade over Marvin" hopes didn't come through, and was open to the idea of this team moving on if ZT seemed like he was wasn't going to get the most out of our once in a lifetime QB in Burrow.  I was very "may as well wait and see" in 2020 and 2021.  After damn near 20 years of Mavin anyone expecting the Bengals to move on from ZT after 8 games was just making conversation.

I get it, you're the guy who saw the Beatles play Pinwheel Twist in 1962 and knew they'd be the biggest band ever.



EDIT - And I do recall my view going into 2021 was that I expected a put up or shut up year from ZT and expected improvements, but I could also envision going into 2022 without ZT and hearing folks on here say they can't wait to see what Burrow can do with "a real coach." My mind was open.  I didn't expect a SB run though, granted.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-14-2023, 10:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I wasn't done with him, I just looked at a guy who started the year 0-11, admitted my "instant upgrade over Marvin" hopes didn't come through, and was open to the idea of this team moving on if ZT seemed like he was wasn't going to get the most out of our once in a lifetime QB in Burrow.  I was very "may as well wait and see" in 2020 and 2021.  After damn near 20 years of Mavin anyone expecting the Bengals to move on from ZT after 8 games was just making conversation.

I get it, you're the guy who saw the Beatles play Pinwheel Twist in 1962 and knew they'd be the biggest band ever.



EDIT - And I do recall my view going into 2021 was that I expected a put up or shut up year from ZT and expected improvements, but I could also envision going into 2022 without ZT and hearing folks on here say they can't wait to see what Burrow can do with "a real coach." My mind was open.  I didn't expect a SB run though, granted.

Did you expect a 10 straight streak this year as well? If at mid season you were told we’d get beat at the buzzer in the AFC Championship game with 3 OL starters out? Would you have bought that?

[*Nately120*]

(02-14-2023, 10:54 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Did you expect a 10 straight streak this year as well? If at mid season you were told we’d get beat at the buzzer in the AFC Championship game with 3 OL starters out? Would you have bought that?

I admitted things looked glum after the loss to the Browns, which I didn't expect, but I did say a run was completely within this team's reach and once we were 2 or 3 games into that streak I assumed the team was winning it all until I see otherwise.  

I pointed out all season that all we needed to do was win a wide open AFC North thanks to the Ravens losing to outside teams a lot and later losing Jackson, the Browns not having a starting QB for 11 weeks, and the Steelers rebuilding for the first time in 15+ years.  I pointed out that Burrow and this team seem to not even need homefield advantage to win in the playoffs...so get in at the 7th seed for all I care.  Once this specific team is in anything can happen.

So yes, I was pretty overly optimistic  at times these past few years.  But I'll admit when ZT won 6 games in two seasons, excuses and injuries be damned, I wasn't 100% he was the only option this team should look into at HC.  

So to answer your question, I assumed we were going to the SB again, so your prediction was actually more pessimistic than mine for most of the season.  Is it possible to separate my early skepticism for ZT from flat-out hating this team's success?

[Soonerpeace]

(02-14-2023, 11:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I admitted things looked glum after the loss to the Browns, which I didn't expect, but I did say a run was completely within this team's reach and once we were 2 or 3 games into that streak I assumed the team was winning it all until I see otherwise.  

I pointed out all season that all we needed to do was win a wide open AFC North thanks to the Ravens losing to outside teams a lot and later losing Jackson, the Browns not having a starting QB for 11 weeks, and the Steelers rebuilding for the first time in 15+ years.  I pointed out that Burrow and this team seem to not even need homefield advantage to win in the playoffs...so get in at the 7th seed for all I care.  Once this specific team is in anything can happen.

So yes, I was pretty overly optimistic  at times these past few years.  But I'll admit when ZT won 6 games in two seasons, excuses and injuries be damned, I wasn't 100% he was the only option this team should look into at HC.  

So to answer your question, I assumed we were going to the SB again, so your prediction was actually more pessimistic than mine for most of the season.  Is it possible to separate my early skepticism for ZT from flat-out hating this team's success?

All this team needs is a better OL. They tried but injuries derailed it. You don’t win 10 straight games in the NFL w/o talent, solid coaching, and depth. That’s the last piece as I think they beat Philly or KC had our OL been intact.

[*PhilHos*]

(02-14-2023, 08:21 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This is getting silly now. My original comment that sent Zac Taylor sig guy into such a tizzy was merely me saying it’s been Lou who’s owned the Chiefs (thought that was a pretty well established fact among our fandom). Our offense has done their part against them (especially the 266 yards/3 TD’s game by Chase), but it’s really been Lou’s 2nd half adjustments that stifled the KC offense that made the difference. Not sure why that’s so controversial to point out.

It's not, but while Lou's adjustments may be the MAIN reason why we've beaten the Chiefs 3 out of the last 4 times we faced them, he's not the ONLY reason. To claim that Lou is the only one on the Bengals coaching staff who's "owned" the Chiefs is to totally discount the role the offense played as well as the HC. Zac doesn't just call plays on offense; he's the HC and as such there are other things he does besides call plays and other decisions he has to make. To claim that Lou is the only one who "owns" the Chiefs to state that you don't understand how a football team operates.

To be fair, I don't fully either, but I know enough to know that coaches don't coach in a vacuum. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-15-2023, 11:57 AM)PhilHos Wrote: It's not, but while Lou's adjustments may be the MAIN reason why we've beaten the Chiefs 3 out of the last 4 times we faced them, he's not the ONLY reason. To claim that Lou is the only one on the Bengals coaching staff who's "owned" the Chiefs is to totally discount the role the offense played as well as the HC. Zac doesn't just call plays on offense; he's the HC and as such there are other things he does besides call plays and other decisions he has to make. To claim that Lou is the only one who "owns" the Chiefs to state that you don't understand how a football team operates.

To be fair, I don't fully either, but I know enough to know that coaches don't coach in a vacuum. 

Man do some of you people get weird around here. It’s 2023, anyone with half a brain, and an even casual interest in the sport “knows how a team works.” Like what are we even doing here?

AGAIN - Taylor is a good coach. Taylor made a good choice when he hired Lou. Who’s also a good coach. Let’s leave it at that and move on.

[*PhilHos*]

(02-15-2023, 12:48 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Man do some of you people get weird around here. It’s 2023, anyone with half a brain, and an even casual interest in the sport “knows how a team works.” Like what are we even doing here?

AGAIN - Taylor is a good coach. Taylor made a good choice when he hired Lou. Who’s also a good coach. Let’s leave it at that and move on.

Honestly, I just wanted a good, non-political argument, man. And you had to go and ruin it.

WAY TO GO, NICOMO!!

[*bfine32*]

(02-15-2023, 12:48 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Man do some of you people get weird around here. It’s 2023, anyone with half a brain, and an even casual interest in the sport “knows how a team works.” Like what are we even doing here?

AGAIN - Taylor is a good coach. Taylor made a good choice when he hired Lou. Who’s also a good coach. Let’s leave it at that and move on.

[Frank Booth]

(02-15-2023, 12:48 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Man do some of you people get weird around here. It’s 2023, anyone with half a brain, and an even casual interest in the sport “knows how a team works.” Like what are we even doing here?

AGAIN - Taylor is a good coach. Taylor made a good choice when he hired Lou. Who’s also a good coach. Let’s leave it at that and move on.

Shaaaaat aaaappppp

[Nicomo Cosca]

They just said on WLW that the police chief has seen new evidence and will be taking it to the city prosecutor. A decision on whether or not to refile the charges is expected to come within a week or two.

[casear2727]

(02-16-2023, 01:16 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: They just said on WLW that the police chief has seen new evidence and will be taking it to the city prosecutor. A decision on whether or not to refile the charges is expected to come within a week or two.

Overheard at PBS top floor...

"We absolutely planned on keeping you at your full salary but... you know.... optics and everything.... we will miss you."

A few minutes later...

"Wow, that made things easier, who wants to spend this 10M?"

[WVUHomer]

(02-14-2023, 02:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Right. Also, Mahomes is a shitty QB without Andy Reid.

I don't know if this has been pointed out yet, but Reid made Alex Smith into a MVP capable QB. Last time Maholmes didn't play with Reid, he was back at Texas Tech with Kingsbury getting him fired.

[TecmoBengals]

(02-16-2023, 01:59 AM)WVUHomer Wrote: I don't know if this has been pointed out yet, but Reid made Alex Smith into a MVP capable QB. Last time Maholmes didn't play with Reid, he was back at Texas Tech with Kingsbury getting him fired.

Mahomes is now a two time Super Bowl winning QB who wins MVPs and has mastered the pro-game. Having Reid as a his coach helps, but he'll be fine and continue elite play after Reid is gone.

[KillerGoose]

(02-16-2023, 01:59 AM)WVUHomer Wrote: I don't know if this has been pointed out yet, but Reid made Alex Smith into a MVP capable QB. Last time Maholmes didn't play with Reid, he was back at Texas Tech with Kingsbury getting him fired.

Alex Smith was never an MVP capable QB. He's had a couple of efficient seasons, but has never received any MVP consideration. Alex Smith played from 2013-2017 in KC, and an average season from him would be 3,942 yards, 22 TDs, 7 INTs, 94 passer rating. Also, Kingsbury didn't get fired from Tech until 2018, two years after Mahomes left. After Mahomes' up and down freshman campaign, he averaged 4800 yards and 39 TDs per season for his college career, capping it off by winning the Sammy Baugh trophy in 2016. He's been pretty good for a while.