What Is Even The Point?

[Nepa]

I have a solution for Goodell if he doesn't want to invest money in having at least some full-time officials and prefers to work with middle school principals and farmers and insurance adjusters and high school teachers, etc.

1. Don't allow former NFL officials (Mike Pereira, Gene Steratore) in the broadcast booths, because they keep pointing out how the officials on the field (and even sometimes in the replay center) are getting it wrong. It has to be embarrassing for Goodell to have the former head of NFL officiating, Mike Pereira, point out egregious errors being made.

2. Stop TV replays. They keep showing what Goodell doesn't want seen: missed calls, blown calls, poor ball placement, etc. Life was easy for the NFL when everyone believed the officiating was doing a great job and didn't get to see video evidence of incompetence.

Obviously, this is tongue-in-cheek. Goodell has a real problem. NFL is now soundly tied to gambling. These part-time NFL officials did a real poor job this year. Referees are getting scrutinized to the point where even the casual fans know their tendencies and biases. Fan's everywhere are getting sick of blown calls or inconsistent officiating impacting games.

Goodell can protest all he wants that the officiating is doing a great job. No one believes it. He needs to make some serious changes or have the NFL product not trusted by fans.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-13-2023, 01:04 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: It’s horribly unfortunate but in the moment you are trained to focus on the play and not the other. It was a hold. There aren’t degrees of them. It works both ways. Maybe it’s me but I’ve never understood the not call a foul at the end of a basketball game. If it hinders the other team so he it. In this instance if it would have been called on the first play it should be called on the last.

Except it wasn't. The Chiefs weren't called for a single penalty while the ball was in play the entire game. Not once on either side of the football. They had just 3 penalties, all pre-snap, and all in the 1st half.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-13-2023, 01:16 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Except it wasn't. The Chiefs weren't called for a single penalty while the ball was in play the entire game. Not once on either side of the football. They had just 3 penalties, all pre-snap, and all in the 1st half.

Just saw all of them on GMFB agree it was a hold. It’s pretty overwhelming that it was a hold. Now many disagree whether it should have been called. I’m in the camp a penalty is a penalty.

[fozzie11]

(02-13-2023, 01:21 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Just saw all of them on GMFB agree it was a hold. It’s pretty overwhelming that it was a hold. Now many disagree whether it should have been called. I’m in the camp a penalty is a penalty.

I think the point is, if you’re going to call it, then call it all game. Or if you’re going to let them play like that for 58 minutes, don’t switch it up with 2 minutes left

[Soonerpeace]

(02-13-2023, 01:35 PM)fozzie11 Wrote: I think the point is, if you’re going to call it, then call it all game. Or if you’re going to let them play like that for 58 minutes, don’t switch it up with 2 minutes left

If there’s evidence of that you bet

[THE PISTONS]

(02-13-2023, 01:35 PM)fozzie11 Wrote: I think the point is, if you’re going to call it, then call it all game. Or if you’re going to let them play like that for 58 minutes, don’t switch it up with 2 minutes left

Yes. It's equivalent to an empire in baseball moving the strike zone in the 9th inning. I agree 100%.

It was a penalty by the rulebook, but they didn't call it 95% of the game. Same with our SB loss.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-13-2023, 01:21 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Just saw all of them on GMFB agree it was a hold. It’s pretty overwhelming that it was a hold. Now many disagree whether it should have been called. I’m in the camp a penalty is a penalty.

Sure, a penalty is a penalty.  Then why not call all of them throughout the course of the game?  I've got a text conversation from during the game, an old teammate of mine and I chatting about "Wow, refs letting them play tonight", to which he replied, "nice to see games decided by players and not controversial calls".  Then after the sideline catch that was overturned, he says "I stand corrected, there's the first controversial call of the night".

It's to the point where it's almost uncanny how predictable these mysterious calls are, when similar or more serious violations have been ignored routinely for most of the game. 

[THE PISTONS]

(02-13-2023, 01:56 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sure, a penalty is a penalty.  Then why not call all of them throughout the course of the game?  I've got a text conversation from during the game, an old teammate of mine and I chatting about "Wow, refs letting them play tonight", to which he replied, "nice to see games decided by players and not controversial calls".  Then after the sideline catch that was overturned, he says "I stand corrected, there's the first controversial call of the night".

It's to the point where it's almost uncanny how predictable these mysterious calls are, when similar or more serious violations have been ignored routinely for most of the game. 

Yes. It sure gives the optics that a fix is in. Especially, when the Chiefs got favorable calls the week before against us.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-13-2023, 01:56 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sure, a penalty is a penalty.  Then why not call all of them throughout the course of the game?  I've got a text conversation from during the game, an old teammate of mine and I chatting about "Wow, refs letting them play tonight", to which he replied, "nice to see games decided by players and not controversial calls".  Then after the sideline catch that was overturned, he says "I stand corrected, there's the first controversial call of the night".

It's to the point where it's almost uncanny how predictable these mysterious calls are, when similar or more serious violations have been ignored routinely for most of the game. 

Precisely, lack of consistency gives the viewer a sense of bias and corruption, whether real or imagined. The optics are certainly terrible at the very least.

[Roland]

(02-13-2023, 10:09 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: It is just so F'd up.  I can't believe they get away with it.  

Smith's catch he made THREE STEPS in bounds with the ball secured.  Three.  He didn't even let it move when he "survived the ground".  Called a catch on the field.  And we are supposed to believe there was INDISPUTIBLE VIDEO EVIDENCE that it was not a catch?  My ass.

Very similar circumstances to the Jamar Chase touchdown catch that got overturned on very slim evidence.  At least they were consistent.

The NFL definitely needs to go to full time officials with some kind of open grading system. Teams should be permitted to see the play by play breakdowns and overall grades should be public starting mid season.  Top crews should be assigned to top games based on standings.

But I doubt that anything will change.  I'm with Kay Adams,  we've felt all the feels and now it's time to get on with building a team that can't be denied by a few bad calls. 

[Mer]

(02-13-2023, 02:49 PM)Roland Wrote: Very similar circumstances to the Jamar Chase touchdown catch that got overturned on very slim evidence.  At least they were consistent.

The NFL definitely needs to go to full time officials with some kind of open grading system. Teams should be permitted to see the play by play breakdowns and overall grades should be public starting mid season.  Top crews should be assigned to top games based on standings.

But I doubt that anything will change.  I'm with Kay Adams,  we've felt all the feels and now it's time to get on with building a team that can't be denied by on a few bad calls. 

That's the key. Most of these "bad" calls come at the end of the game. If we build a team that can consistently get up by 2+ scores before the end of the game it makes it harder for the refs to influence the outcome.  Before anyone says it, I know most games end where both teams are within aTD but one can always dream.

[Bengalstripes9]

(02-13-2023, 09:57 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: We can all see that it’s a hold, but I guarantee there were 20-30 worse holds on DBs and O-linemen that entire game. Unless it’s egregious, you don’t make that call I that spot. It’s happened in 2 consecutive super bowls. Idk if it’s biased, rigged, or what, but it’s disgusting to watch an otherwise good game get essentially ended because of a penalty that hasn’t been called all game.

Also, let’s talk about about a 5 yard penalty shouldn’t be an automatic first down.

This is a great point. It's been an automatic first down for as long as I know. I never questioned it. But that is a good point.
Maybe the counter point is if it's 4th and goal from the 2 and the defense holds you only move 1 yard closer on the 4th down retry? So they could hold in consecutive plays without givin up a score. But the offense is getting closer to the goal line. Yeah, I agree with you that it would be a solid rule change. Force the offense to punch it in.

I agree you can't make the call at that point if you haven't been calling it all game. The number one thing is be consistent. The refs were far from consistent throughout football games all year. Many people have pointed this out. It has to improve.

There was some shady officiating this year involving the Cheifs. I refused to fixate on it after the Bengals loss. I felt they should have played better. I feel the same way about the Eagles. They played like crap in the second half on defense and Hurts gave away a TD in the first half. Cheifs deserved to win both games by their clutch playmaking.

Bengals didn't play well enough up front on offense in their loss. Eagles defense simply got torched all game. I would argue maybe the Eagles deserved a chance at a last minute drive more because of how well they played on offense. Tough loss to take for sure.

Not a good look for the NFL--them being in the spotlight should improve things next year I hope.

(02-13-2023, 10:02 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: If the NFL is up to anything shady with influencing games I believe it stems from gambling more so than favoring certain organizations or players.

Mahomes dominated the second half though before that penalty. The Chiefs earned their win.

I thought the Cheifs dominated the second half as well. Im not sure if they gave Mahomes steroids or what. But he got it done this post season. Hats off to him.
And the Cheifs really filled out their team well this past offseason. Hell of a draft (especially considering the poor draft position).

Kudos to them. I still think we can come back better than this year if we address the oline and improve depth at key positions like pass rusher and corner. An upgrade over Mixon at RB would be a great move as well for our efficiency on O. We need a draft similar to what the Chiefs just had to get it done.

[Boomer Anderson]

The Eagles shot themselves in the foot twice. The Hurts fumble TD return and the punt return.

However the call at the end of the game wasn’t called the entire game so why call it at the end? Point spread ?

With gambling being legal almost everywhere, have the refs or close loved ones or trusted friends ever been investigated for betting on games? Just curious.

How much does State Farm provide to the NFL for advertising revenue etc? State Farm stadium with the State Farm pitch man winning the Superbowl while heroically playing in “an injured ankle”. Just a dream game scenario for the league it seems. Smells a little like WWE to me.

[samhain]

(02-13-2023, 01:56 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sure, a penalty is a penalty.  Then why not call all of them throughout the course of the game?  I've got a text conversation from during the game, an old teammate of mine and I chatting about "Wow, refs letting them play tonight", to which he replied, "nice to see games decided by players and not controversial calls".  Then after the sideline catch that was overturned, he says "I stand corrected, there's the first controversial call of the night".

It's to the point where it's almost uncanny how predictable these mysterious calls are, when similar or more serious violations have been ignored routinely for most of the game. 

It just lends too much subjectivity to officiating.

You either call things or you don't.  After three quarters, a team probably feels like they have a beat on what's going to fly or what isn't through trial and error.  It becomes simple classical conditioning.  Then, out of nowhere, something illegal that has't been enforced all game gets enforced at the most crucial point.  The call literally caused Philly's once likely shot at a game winning drive to evaporate.  The real shit sandwich is that the ball was so overthrown that the reciever had zero shot at catching that ball, holding or not.

As things stand, the expectations for refs are so low that the public will accept that these guys are just bad and screw up at strangely impactful moments.  They can be all over the place, consistent, or lenient for 3 1/2 quarters and strict in the last minutes.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

The point is for the Bengals to be so far ahead in the fourth quarter that bullpoop calls don’t affect the outcome of the game. That’s why I love it when the Bengals build a huge lead and dare the other team to take risks in order to catch up.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-13-2023, 11:27 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The point is for the Bengals to be so far ahead in the fourth quarter that bullpoop calls don’t affect the outcome of the game.  That’s why I love it when the Bengals build a huge lead and dare the other team to take risks in order to catch up.

Ah yes, the "win by a lot" strategy. Why don't more teams just do that?  

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(02-13-2023, 11:45 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Ah yes, the "win by a lot" strategy. Why don't more teams just do that?  

I get your point…

…but maybe if I explain further it might help. Zac Taylor is MUCH better at being aggressive early on in the game than he was in the past. Winning by a lot isn’t a strategy; it’s the result of good strategy. Think of the games where the game plan was wide open and aggressive like the ones against Atlanta, Carolina, and both games against Buffalo. The end result was inevitable.

Against better defenses it’s tougher. AFC North battles are rarely blowouts with the exception of Cincinnati’s dominance over Baltimore in 2021.

[Essex Johnson]

(02-13-2023, 12:25 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Two Super Bowls in a row now decided at the very end by the weakest defensive holding calls possible.

Should we honestly even bother getting invested in a league that won't even invest in full time refs? Or maybe they want it this way. Bucs win at home with Tom Brady, Rams win at home in new LA market, State Farm posterboy Mahomes wins in Star Farm Field to cement the fact that the Chiefs are in a dynasty right after Brady retires. Don't want to be one of those conspiracy theorists, but it just smells an awful lot right now and I don't really know if I should continue to invest feelings in trophy that is being decided by a ref at the very end of two SBs in a row.

So you are you saying calls should be different on at different times of the game.. now that is not very objective and would actually lead to more rig games i guess .....  The player admits holding, announcers see holding, retired ref says holding.... and because it is late in game , ref should not throw flag and because they do that rigs the game.. come on....  This game had 2nd least SB penalties with 9 total, KC has hurt on a non overcall that lead to points for Philly.  Philly was up 10 at half, but KC made more plays, Philly blows a punt return coverage to setup easy TD for KC.. Philly scores and gets 2 point conversion.. then allows KC to control clock and march down field for a short FG.. game was won on the field.. KC made more plays when they had too and Philly could not close the deal after a dominating 1st half...

[Nepa]

(02-14-2023, 12:04 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: ****The player admits holding, announcers see holding, retired ref says holding.... ***

Not sure I want to get into this, but one of the announcers thought it should not have been called (and said it repeatedly) and one former ref said it was too ticky-tack to make it the deciding factor in the game. 

I think the complaint is that if you are letting the players play all game long -- and there were a lot of ticky-tack penalties not called all game long -- then why do it when it is the deciding factor? 

[Rubekahn29]

(02-14-2023, 12:04 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So you are you saying calls should be different on at different times of the game..

That’s actually the opposite of what anyone is advocating. If anything that is what you are advocating. We are saying be consistent. Not a single defensive holding or offensive holding was called all game until under 2 minutes. There was nothing about that hold that was so far an above anything else the entire game and it really had no impact on the play as JJSS wasn’t getting to that ball regardless.

If you call it early, you establish precedent to the call. You don’t wait until a pivotal play at the end of the game that essentially seals it when you haven’t touched those calls all game.