Volson to RT? Hear me out...

[*SHRacerX*]

I am sure people's first reaction to any mention of Volson being moved from his LG position is bound to bring some venom. Hear me out:

Volson has exceptional length. He played RT more than any other position at NDSU. He showed how quickly he could adapt to playing LG and had a really good rookie season. He has probably added 10 pounds or so since joining the Bengals, putting him at 6'7" and 325 lbs. He has nearly 34" arms as well and huge 10.5" mitts.

So, now you are asking...."Who is going to be the LG?". Well, here are a couple guys that project to be available early in the 2nd round that look like really good prospects:

Rank
36
Steve Avila
Steve Avila
TCU · IOL · Senior (RS)
Avila is a physically imposing guard prospect with quick feet and power. In pass protection, he is quick out of his stance, chops his feet and delivers a strong two-hand punch. He anchors easily and looks for work when he's uncovered. He is very aware and has a nasty streak. In the run game, he runs his feet on contact and drives opponents off the line of scrimmage. He does a good job staying attached to blocks. If he loses his hand placement, he is quick to replace and recover. He is sudden as a puller and can unload when he stays on a single track. He has some issues when he has to adjust and redirect his feet in space. Overall, I love the size and temperament Avila possesses. He's going to be a solid starting guard right away at the next level.

Rank
37
O'Cyrus Torrence
O'Cyrus Torrence
Florida · IOL · Senior
Torrence is a massive offensive guard with ideal instincts and play strength. In pass protection, he can bend his knees and play with balance. He has an immediate anchor and provides plenty of space for his QB to climb up into the pocket. He has strong hands to latch and control. He is very aware versus twists and stunts. In the run game, he can create movement with defenders over his nose and has surprising quickness to reach and cut off foes. He is quick to the second level, but he struggles to redirect and adjust in space. That should improve if he can drop 10-to-15 pounds. Teams that want to run downhill and create a firm interior in the pass game will really appreciate Torrence.[i][i][/i][/i]

This could allow the Bengals to acquire some extra draft capital by trading out of the first round and choose one of these guys in the 2nd round.

I am just spit balling, but I really like the idea of giving him a shot at RT, his natural position. Thoughts?

[*Synric*]

I get you wanted to highlight a couple of interior guys and I agree I would rather take a guy like John Michael Schmitz than any of the later day 1 or day 2 tackles but Volson's below average foot speed would be likely be bad on the outside and why he moved inside in the NFL. Although I did watch Matthew Bergeron a couple of days ago and I came away impressed.

[WVUHomer]

(02-18-2023, 11:08 AM)Synric Wrote: I get you wanted to highlight a couple of interior guys and I agree I would rather take a guy like John Michael Schmitz than any of the later day 1 or day 2 tackles  but Volson's below average foot speed would be likely be bad on the outside and why he moved inside in the NFL. Although I did watch Matthew Bergeron a couple of days ago and I came away impressed.

This entire post is a chefs kiss.

I was high on Bergeron early but watching him at the Senior Bowl gave me some concerns moving forward. I'd have to rewatch to see how I felt going forward. I also am not sure Bergeron could handle right side as I think he's been primarily a LT on college (though I could be wrong on that).

[bk42]

I don't know about Volson to RT but think trading back 8-10 picks from 29 is not a bad option for the Bengals (unless there is an absolute no brainer waiting for them at 29).

One big benefit in doing so is they save a bit on the salary cap for the next four years while still getting a similar player to what they would have received at pick 29. Last year, pick 29 signed a 4 year 12.25M contract while pick 39 signed a 4 year 8.68M (so about 900K a year less of 3.6M less over 4 years). I recall the Patriots doing this for years as they tried to retain key players in free agency (they relied on 2nd rd picks while not paying the salary of a 1st rounder).

Bengals are in a great spot and am excited to see who they can bring back and how they can add on to their roster

[WVUHomer]

(02-18-2023, 12:18 PM)bk42 Wrote: I don't know about Volson to RT but think trading back 8-10 picks from 29 is not a bad option for the Bengals (unless there is an absolute no brainer waiting for them at 29).  

One big benefit in doing so is they save a bit on the salary cap for the next four years while still getting a similar player to what they would have received at pick 29.  Last year, pick 29 signed a 4 year 12.25M contract while pick 39 signed a 4 year 8.68M (so about 900K a year less of 3.6M less over 4 years).  I recall the Patriots doing this for years as they tried to retain key players in free agency (they relied on 2nd rd picks while not paying the salary of a 1st rounder).  

Bengals are in a great spot and am excited to see who they can bring back and how they can add on to their roster

You also lose a potential year on a cheap contract. Unless the trade was just outrageous, I think you have to keep pick 28. The furthest i could justify trading down to is 31 at this point with the upcoming explosion of cap getting eaten.

[*bfine32*]

I agree with the OP's premise. I know I have little faith in Pollack's attempts to transform young players to OG.

Fred Johnson did much worse when Frank moved him from OT to OG

Jackson Caman looked much better at OT than OG

For some reason folks think Cordell is doing well at LG; he's not.

[casear2727]

(02-18-2023, 10:52 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am sure people's first reaction to any mention of Volson being moved from his LG position is bound to bring some venom.  Hear me out:

Volson has exceptional length.  He played RT more than any other position at NDSU.  He showed how quickly he could adapt to playing LG and had a really good rookie season.  He has probably added 10 pounds or so since joining the Bengals, putting him at 6'7" and 325 lbs.  He has nearly 34" arms as well and huge 10.5" mitts.

So, now you are asking...."Who is going to be the LG?".  Well, here are a couple guys that project to be available early in the 2nd round that look like really good prospects:

Rank
36
Steve Avila
Steve Avila
TCU · IOL · Senior (RS)
Avila is a physically imposing guard prospect with quick feet and power. In pass protection, he is quick out of his stance, chops his feet and delivers a strong two-hand punch. He anchors easily and looks for work when he's uncovered. He is very aware and has a nasty streak. In the run game, he runs his feet on contact and drives opponents off the line of scrimmage. He does a good job staying attached to blocks. If he loses his hand placement, he is quick to replace and recover. He is sudden as a puller and can unload when he stays on a single track. He has some issues when he has to adjust and redirect his feet in space. Overall, I love the size and temperament Avila possesses. He's going to be a solid starting guard right away at the next level.

Rank
37
O'Cyrus Torrence
O'Cyrus Torrence
Florida · IOL · Senior
Torrence is a massive offensive guard with ideal instincts and play strength. In pass protection, he can bend his knees and play with balance. He has an immediate anchor and provides plenty of space for his QB to climb up into the pocket. He has strong hands to latch and control. He is very aware versus twists and stunts. In the run game, he can create movement with defenders over his nose and has surprising quickness to reach and cut off foes. He is quick to the second level, but he struggles to redirect and adjust in space. That should improve if he can drop 10-to-15 pounds. Teams that want to run downhill and create a firm interior in the pass game will really appreciate Torrence.

This could allow the Bengals to acquire some extra draft capital by trading out of the first round and choose one of these guys in the 2nd round.  

I am just spit balling, but I really like the idea of giving him a shot at RT, his natural position.  Thoughts?

Torrence likely doesnt make it to 28, he is the #1 OG in the draft.  Very doubtful Avila is available at #60 and I dont see any way Schmitz is either, he is likely the next Creed Humphrey, except bigger.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-18-2023, 11:08 AM)Synric Wrote: I get you wanted to highlight a couple of interior guys and I agree I would rather take a guy like John Michael Schmitz than any of the later day 1 or day 2 tackles  but Volson's below average foot speed would be likely be bad on the outside and why he moved inside in the NFL. Although I did watch Matthew Bergeron a couple of days ago and I came away impressed.

I was looking for testing and I didn't see that his foot speed looked deficient.  Look at guys like Orlando Brown.  Footspeed sucks, but he knows how to play the position.  I think Volson is really smart and since he played most of his 5 years at RT it might make some sense.  

Make no mistake, it was our tackles that lost it for the Bengals last year, not the guards.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-18-2023, 08:53 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Torrence likely doesnt make it to 28, he is the #1 OG in the draft.  Very doubtful Avila is available at #60 and I dont see any way Schmitz is either, he is likely the next Creed Humphrey, except bigger.

Well, Jeremiah's ranking had them in mid 30s and they are guards.  I don't see teams taking them over similarly ranked WR, CB, DE, or even DTs.  

[casear2727]

(02-19-2023, 11:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Well, Jeremiah's ranking had them in mid 30s and they are guards.  I don't see teams taking them over similarly ranked WR, CB, DE, or even DTs.  

With all due respect, someone's Top 50 doesnt always relate to where they will be drafted.  And even if it did mid 30's to 60 is 25 picks....

Schmitz is a center.  Dont care what Jeremiah says, the guy is the #1 center by far, and he is almost absolutely taken before the end of the 2nd.  

Avila is listed primarily as a center but can play guard.

Im not big on Jeremiah's initial top 50 or mock 1.0.  He has Kincaid ahead of Mayer, Quinton Johnston not even in the 1st round, no WR's until pick 25, Smith-Njogba at pick 30....

Keep in mind the 1.0 Top 50 and mocks have things out of place purposely so they cna come out with 2.0, 3.0 and then their FINAL list... content, content, content.

[casear2727]

(02-19-2023, 11:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Well, Jeremiah's ranking had them in mid 30s and they are guards.  I don't see teams taking them over similarly ranked WR, CB, DE, or even DTs.  

PFN's mock that came out yesterday has Schmitz at #17.  I see no way we get a chance at 60.  Neither does anyone else it appears.

The guy is mocked as high as 17 and as low as 31 in over 30 mock drafts.  The Seahawks are the huge favorites to take him at #20.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-19-2023, 12:28 PM)casear2727 Wrote: With all due respect, someone's Top 50 doesnt always relate to where they will be drafted.  And even if it did mid 30's to 60 is 25 picks....

Schmitz is a center.  Dont care what Jeremiah says, the guy is the #1 center by far, and he is almost absolutely taken before the end of the 2nd.  

Avila is listed primarily as a center but can play guard.

Im not big on Jeremiah's initial top 50 or mock 1.0.  He has Kincaid ahead of Mayer, Quinton Johnston not even in the 1st round, no WR's until pick 25, Smith-Njogba at pick 30....

Keep in mind the 1.0 Top 50 and mocks have things out of place purposely so they cna come out with 2.0, 3.0 and then their FINAL list... content, content, content.

I just see this draft as weak on a number of positions (like WR, for instance) but has a strong class at OT and Guard.  There could be a real talent in the top of round 2 (assuming a trade back) and they could gain an additional 3rd by doing so.  

And I get top 50 rankings, but I will be shocked if there is more than 1 or maybe 2 guards taken in round 1.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-19-2023, 12:39 PM)casear2727 Wrote: PFN's mock that came out yesterday has Schmitz at #17.  I see no way we get a chance at 60.  Neither does anyone else it appears.

The guy is mocked as high as 17 and as low as 31 in over 30 mock drafts.  The Seahawks are the huge favorites to take him at #20.

Why do you keep saying #60?  In this scenario, the Bengals would trade their first rounder to allow a team to move up and get the 5th year option on someone they really covet, and the Bengals would get a pick around 33-40.  And an additional 3rd.  If Schmitz goes at #17, I will be shocked.  Just isn't value there.  

[casear2727]

(02-19-2023, 03:24 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Why do you keep saying #60?  In this scenario, the Bengals would trade their first rounder to allow a team to move up and get the 5th year option on someone they really covet, and the Bengals would get a pick around 33-40.  And an additional 3rd.  If Schmitz goes at #17, I will be shocked.  Just isn't value there.  

I totally missed your trade back line on that post.  I have no issue with an extra 2 & 3 or 4, depending on who the trade partner would be.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(02-18-2023, 10:52 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am sure people's first reaction to any mention of Volson being moved from his LG position is bound to bring some venom.  Hear me out:

Volson has exceptional length.  He played RT more than any other position at NDSU.  He showed how quickly he could adapt to playing LG and had a really good rookie season.  He has probably added 10 pounds or so since joining the Bengals, putting him at 6'7" and 325 lbs.  He has nearly 34" arms as well and huge 10.5" mitts.

I understand your train of thought and this did actually cross my mind, but after more thought---- Volson really started coming on at the LG position late in the year, and to change him to learn a new position in the NFL isn't the thing to do.  Really, I think the Tampa game is where Volson started turning the corner.  He's learned the position and we're better off going after Dwand Jones at ROT for our first pick.  I think Jones will go in the late 30s to early 40s, but to trade down and take a gamble on him not being there isn't a chance I'm willing to take.  Apply the old saying here, "A bird in the hand is as good as two in the bush."  Gamble and you just might end up empty-handed, ya know...  
Right now, it's looking like Jones is the best ROT but after the combine, we'll know more.   This is a good conversation over a beer or two. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-20-2023, 12:43 AM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: I understand your train of thought and this did actually cross my mind, but after more thought---- Volson really started coming on at the LG position late in the year, and to change him to learn a new position in the NFL isn't the thing to do.  Really, I think the Tampa game is where Volson started turning the corner.  He's learned the position and we're better off going after Dwand Jones at ROT for our first pick.  I think Jones will go in the late 30s to early 40s, but to trade down and take a gamble on him not being there isn't a chance I'm willing to take.  Apply the old saying here, "A bird in the hand is as good as two in the bush."  Gamble and you just might end up empty-handed, ya know...  
Right now, it's looking like Jones is the best ROT but after the combine, we'll know more.   This is a good conversation over a beer or two. 

If the Bengals take Dawand Jones, i quit. 

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(02-20-2023, 02:38 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If the Bengals take Dawand Jones, i quit. 

Well then, who do you think is the best fit for our Right Tackle need? 

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-20-2023, 03:30 AM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: Well then, who do you think is the best fit for our Right Tackle need? 

I'd like to get Darnell Wright.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(02-20-2023, 03:39 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'd like to get Darnell Wright.

Darnell Wright is my second choice if Jones gets drafted first.

Looking at pff grading
Jones Had an overall 2022 grade of 82 and Wright 71.  

Jones' grades are Run 85 and pass 78, Zone 91, and 62-Gap scheme.  

Wright Run 65, Pass 80, Zone 58, and 65 Gap scheme.  

Wright also had a Sr. Bowl grade out of all the OTs at 62.8, so it wasn't like he was a standout.  Jones didn't play but impressed everyone in the workouts. 

I'm taking Jones if both are available, but I wouldn't be disappointed with either one.  

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-20-2023, 04:05 AM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: Darnell Wright is my second choice if Jones gets drafted first.

Looking at pff grading
Jones Had an overall 2022 grade of 82 and Wright 71.  

Jones' grades are Run 85 and pass 78, Zone 91, and 62-Gap scheme.  

Wright Run 65, Pass 80, Zone 58, and 65 Gap scheme.  

Wright also had a Sr. Bowl grade out of all the OTs at 62.8, so it wasn't like he was a standout.  Jones didn't play but impressed everyone in the workouts. 

I'm taking Jones if both are available, but I wouldn't be disappointed with either one.  

Honestly, Jones has bad footwork and technique. He needs a lot of work.