Bates Overrated?

[J24]

He is criminally underrated on here maybe overrated Nationally. I think the Bengals are making a huge mistake in letting him go.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(02-28-2023, 05:38 PM)J24 Wrote: He is criminally underrated on here maybe overrated Nationally. I think the Bengals are making a huge mistake in letting him go.

Not really. 

He made a few big plays early in his career, but had TONS of missed tackles to go along with that.
He's had one good season, it got to his head a bit, and then, in a contract year, he flat out sucked. He looked completely lost in coverage at times, and at one point late in the season, opposing QBs had a perfect rating throwing to his man. He played great very late in the season and had an awesome post-season. IMO, his late turnaround was the only reason he earned the Franchise Tag. He played better this year than last, but he was still overpaid.

He's only 25 and has five seasons under his belt. If his goal on his 2nd contract is to cash-in because he may get injured and never see a 3rd contract, he'll have to play somewhere else. If he wants to win, he'll sign a two or three year, team friendly deal. Try to get a ring or two and then go get his payday at 27 or 28. Kind of a gamble and I wouldn't hold it against him at all if someone offered him a big contract and he jumped at it.

[jj22]

Browns clearing cap space and targeting Bates...

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2023/02/browns-safety-john-johnson-iii-will-be-released-by-march-15-barring-trade-bengals-s-jessie-bates-iii-on-their-radar.html

Same agent as Watson (and Higgins). Making it likely both Bates and Higgins will eventually be Browns.

[Housh]

(02-27-2023, 06:34 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Yes I think so. Not because his ceiling isn’t as high as people say, but because he has never been consistent enough to be considered a truly elite S.

We will miss him, but not at the price he is likely to command.

I think having 2 straight amazing post seasons in a row will help his case

[casear2727]

(03-01-2023, 11:10 AM)jj22 Wrote: Browns clearing cap space and targeting Bates...

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2023/02/browns-safety-john-johnson-iii-will-be-released-by-march-15-barring-trade-bengals-s-jessie-bates-iii-on-their-radar.html

Same agent as Watson (and Higgins). Making it likely both Bates and Higgins will eventually be Browns.

How do you figure Higgins is likely a Brown?  

[jj22]

That Agent know he can get what he wants from the Browns... You see that in the Watson contract he negotiated. Why would he not get all his clients to them.

[TecmoBengals]

(03-01-2023, 12:54 PM)jj22 Wrote: That Agent know he can get what he wants from the Browns... You see that in the Watson contract he negotiated. Why would he not get all his clients to them.

I don't think that suggests the agent is funneling his clients to the Browns to maximize their earnings but I do believe we can assume the agent will try to duplicate the Watson success by getting his other clients great deals with any team in the NFL willing to pay. Tee's agent is likely going to play hardball to maximize the $$$ for Tee.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-01-2023, 12:54 PM)jj22 Wrote: That Agent know he can get what he wants from the Browns... You see that in the Watson contract he negotiated. Why would he not get all his clients to them.

Last I read, the Browns were considering a restructure of Watson's deal, so that they could make room for Hopkins.  I've seen stuff alluding toward the Browns having interest in Bates, but nothing related to Higgins.

[*Nately120*]

(03-01-2023, 01:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Last I read, the Browns were considering a restructure of Watson's deal, so that they could make room for Hopkins.  I've seen stuff alluding toward the Browns having interest in Bates, but nothing related to Higgins.

Lordy, if the Browns get Higgins in any way we're going to need Gorilla Monsoon here in order to accurately declare the amount of pandemonium that would assail this board. 

[Sled21]

The Browns are NOT getting Higgins.... that's the most ridiculous thing posted this week.

[Housh]

(03-01-2023, 02:21 PM)Sled21 Wrote: The Browns are NOT getting Higgins.... that's the most ridiculous thing posted this week.

Idk why ppl are even discussing Higgins



The team all but flat out said f*** the rest of the league we are signing him. They didn’t say they were 100% signing him but the tone of how Tobin addressed the question was one that we aren’t trading him and we were gonna sign him at all costs

[XenoMorph]

(03-01-2023, 01:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Last I read, the Browns were considering a restructure of Watson's deal, so that they could make room for Hopkins.  I've seen stuff alluding toward the Browns having interest in Bates, but nothing related to Higgins.

Didnt the browns just cut a saftey to help with Cap... Bates would Cost More

[*Synric*]

The Browns still trying to follow the Rams model and it continues to fail.

[Sled21]

(03-01-2023, 02:33 PM)Synric Wrote: The Browns still trying to follow the Rams model and it continues to fail.

And wait until Watson either gets hurt or gets another massage, and they have to pay his fully guaranteed contract AND pay another QB...

[jj22]

(03-01-2023, 02:21 PM)Sled21 Wrote: The Browns are NOT getting Higgins.... that's the most ridiculous thing posted this week.

Not via trade, but the Agent has a great relationship with the Browns. 

[jj22]

(03-01-2023, 02:25 PM)Housh Wrote: Idk why ppl are even discussing Higgins



The team all but flat out said f*** the rest of the league we are signing him. They didn’t say they were 100% signing him but the tone of how Tobin addressed the question was one that we aren’t trading him and we were gonna sign him at all costs

Higgins agent has never worked well with the Brown Family. I think we have to be realistic here. MB might not be "in charge" anymore, but Katie still handles contract negotiations and that has been the case for decades. 

Only way Higgins is re-signed is if he changes agents.

[jj22]

For those thinking Higgins can control his agent...

From Bates in the above linked article.....

"“I’ve been drafted here. I became a man here,” Bates said after the Bengals’ AFC championship loss to the Chiefs. “I’d love to be here, but that’s out of my control. Whatever happens at the end of the day, I can say I love my brothers like no other. I played my heart out like no other. And that’s all you can really control, at the end of the day."

Sounds like he couldn't just tell his agent he'd accept an offer that only guarantees the first year... Unless you think the Bengals didn't even try to extend him the last 2 years. Ideally athletes should be able to dictate to their agent, but athletes pay agents for a reason, and tend to let them do their job.

[Hammerstripes]

(03-01-2023, 12:54 PM)jj22 Wrote: That Agent know he can get what he wants from the Browns... You see that in the Watson contract he negotiated. Why would he not get all his clients to them.

WRs and Safeties are a lot different than QBs.  

Lets also not pretend that the Browns don't have cap issues of their own.

[J24]

(03-01-2023, 02:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: Higgins agent has never worked well with the Brown Family. I think we have to be realistic here. MB might not be "in charge" anymore, but Katie still handles contract negotiations and that has been the case for decades. 

Only way Higgins is re-signed is if he changes agents.

You do realize the Bengals could trade Higgins if they can't come to a deal right?

[jj22]

(03-01-2023, 02:50 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: WRs and Safeties are a lot different than QBs.  

Lets also not pretend that the Browns don't have cap issues of their own.

No one has cap issues.... The Browns have always spent big in Free Agency. Overpaid for players. Teams other than the Bengals have always beat the system and figured a way around it. 

We see it every year with teams in supposed CAP hell make big time moves in Free Agency.