2023 NFL Combine

[*bfine32*]

The 2023 NFL Combine started this past Monday with DBs arriving. The first on-field activities start tomorrow AM. One of my favorite parts of the process is when the prospects make themselves available to the media.

I listened to Lukas Van Ness and Isaiah Foksey this AM. Only caught the end of Van Ness but the interviewers seemed impressed. He did mention his favorite rush move is the bull-rush and that he has a background in Hockey. IMO Foksey seemed a little too "cocky". He wasn't disrespectful and very articulate. It just seemed his theme was "I know I'm good, it's up to them to see it".

Please post any/all on-field/off-field observations from the next 5 days.

[Graphicguy]

Have heard all the interviews with Zac and Duke after the combine.

Observations….

-one source had Duke Tobin listed as the GM. First I had seen that.
-Tobin, talking about Higgins, says he’s not in the business of making other teams better. He says Tee is one of the best players in the league. He told other teams to draft their own WR1

-Zac stated he likes the locker room…he wants players to express themselves as that’s one thing that makes them special

-They like who they have on this team, now. FA isn’t where they’re looking this year to improve. Assuming they’re talking about doing so in the draft.

-They know the size ranges of the contracts for JB, Tee and Chase. They want to sign JB sooner than later to an extension. They know the numbers. It’s how they structure those numbers to allow the team to be SB bound every year

-Perrine was mentioned specifically for a role with this team. Mixon, was not.

-For some players (assuming Mixon, Boyd, Bates), the Bengals value them and know their value, but want a team friendly deal to be struck. I got the impression they would take Mixon back if he’s willing to restructure…probably true of Boyd, too. Bates I think is going to ATL, unless we’re all really shocked and he stays on a team friendly deal.


-They moved Hill around, but want to get him situated in one position to grow (assuming that’s as a Safety).

This draft will be interesting. If they’re not looking for major FAs, we’ll see what they think if Hurst and LC by the way they draft.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-01-2023, 12:32 PM)Graphicguy Wrote: Have heard all the interviews with Zac and Duke after the combine.

Observations….

-one source had Duke Tobin listed as the GM.  First I had seen that.
-Tobin, talking about Higgins, says he’s not in the business of making other teams better.  He says Tee is one of the best players in the league.  He told other teams to draft their own WR1

-Zac stated he likes the locker room…he wants players to express themselves as that’s one thing that makes them special

-They like who they have on this team, now.  FA isn’t where they’re looking this year to improve.  Assuming they’re talking about doing so in the draft.

-They know the size ranges of the contracts for JB, Tee and Chase.  They want to sign JB sooner than later to an extension.  They know the numbers.  It’s how they structure those numbers to allow the team to be SB bound every year

-Perrine was mentioned specifically for a role with this team.  Mixon, was not.  

-For some players (assuming Mixon, Boyd, Bates), the Bengals value them and know their value, but want a team friendly deal to be struck.  I got the impression they would take Mixon back if he’s willing to restructure…probably true of Boyd, too.  Bates I think is going to ATL, unless we’re all really shocked and he stays on a team friendly deal.


-They moved Hill around, but want to get him situated in one position to grow (assuming that’s as a Safety).

This draft will be interesting.  If they’re not looking for major FAs, we’ll see what they think if Hurst and LC by the way they draft.

To the bolded, that's not surprising, although it might be disappointing to some.
While the roster is championship-caliber, it's silly to not try to improve it with a FA or two, as not all spots have above-average starters.

But if this holds true, expect (to the sadness of some) for pretty much all the starters to stay the same and the draft to use as fill-ins for a starter or two, and the rest depth/future starters.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(03-01-2023, 01:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: To the bolded, that's not surprising, although it might be disappointing to some.
While the roster is championship-caliber, it's silly to not try to improve it with a FA or two, as not all spots have above-average starters.

But if this holds true, expect (to the sadness of some) for pretty much all the starters to stay the same and the draft to use as fill-ins for a starter or two, and the rest depth/future starters.

The first order of business is to try and get a Burrow extension done. Even if it is not, the should at least know the general contours of the deal. But if they can get it done and show it to other guys as an example of a guy sacrificing (some) for the greater good, it will go a long way to getting others to do the same. 

Which is the second order of business. Trying to retain our starter level FAs on deals we can handle under the cap: Bates, Bell, Pratt, & Hurst. Bates is all but gone, and we have D. Hill in house to take over. The others seem doable under the right circumstances. A Mixon restructure possible. 

Then try to get the integral reserves back: Perine & Apple. Maybe Flowers. The rest of the FAs are fringe guys who will either come cheap and/or will still be unsigned when the draft goes down. 

After the dust settles on the early stages of FA, we can re-assess & try to fill any starting holes (if there are any) via draft or FA (if we lose guys and have significant space as a result). If all goes well, we will be drafting for depth or possible upgrades with existing starters becoming depth pieces. 

Of the FAs, I'd go: Bell, Pratt, Hurst, Perine, Apple. 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-01-2023, 05:04 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: The first order of business is to try and get a Burrow extension done. Even if it is not, the should at least know the general contours of the deal. But if they can get it done and show it to other guys as an example of a guy sacrificing (some) for the greater good, it will go a long way to getting others to do the same. 

Which is the second order of business. Trying to retain our starter level FAs on deals we can handle under the cap: Bates, Bell, Pratt, & Hurst. Bates is all but gone, and we have D. Hill in house to take over. The others seem doable under the right circumstances. A Mixon restructure possible. 

Then try to get the integral reserves back: Perine & Apple. Maybe Flowers. The rest of the FAs are fringe guys who will either come cheap and/or will still be unsigned when the draft goes down. 

After the dust settles on the early stages of FA, we can re-assess & try to fill any starting holes (if there are any) via draft or FA (if we lose guys and have significant space as a result). If all goes well, we will be drafting for depth or possible upgrades with existing starters becoming depth pieces. 

Of the FAs, I'd go: Bell, Pratt, Hurst, Perine, Apple. 

Joe Mixon will have to be willing to take a pretty big pay cut, IMO, to deserve to stay on the team.

He was 17th in attempts last year but 27th in total rushing yards.

D'Onta Foreman was ahead of Mixon, and he was only on a 1-year, $2 mill contract.
Raheem Mostert was also ahead of Mixon, and he was on a 1-year, $2.125 mill contract.
Jeff Wilson also ahead of Mixon, and he was on a 1-year, $1.08 mill contract.
All of these guys also had less rushing attempts than Mixon despite still passing him in yardage.

The Bengals could find someone who can produce about the same as Mixon at a fraction of the cost.

I wonder what a guy like David Montgomery would cost?
He's had 1000-1500 yards from scrimmage every season the past 4 years, and he's set to hit Free Agency.
He's not one of the top RBs, but he can get some yards on the ground and he's a good receiver.
I'd be willing to bet he'll sign somewhere for $5 mill APY or under.

[*bfine32*]

Listened to PK and Milz talk to a couple LBs this evening.

Noah Sewell. Peneii fans can finally get a Sewell. Very professional in his interview but nothing dynamic other than he said he's beat Peneii in a fight.

Ivan Pace. Never tracked this guy at all; I'd imagine some of you UC fans have. Dynamic personally and I had no idea of his production. 34.5 TFL over the last 2 seasons, Reportedly the strongest "pound for pound" in the draft. 700 lbs seemed like a huge number to squat for PK and Milz. Pace said he's never maxed but his best was 635x3

[*Synric*]

(03-01-2023, 08:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Listened to PK and Milz talk to a couple LBs this evening.

Noah Sewell. Peneii fans can finally get a Sewell. Very professional in his interview but  nothing dynamic other than he said he's beat Peneii in a fight.

Ivan Pace. Never tracked this guy at all; I'd imagine some of you UC fans have. Dynamic personally and I had no idea of his production. 34.5 TFL over the last 2 seasons, Reportedly the strongest "pound for pound" in the draft.  700 lbs seemed like a huge number to squat for PK and Milz. Pace said he's never maxed but his best was 635x3

Ivan Pace reminds me of David Long Jr from a couple years back a very undersized linebacker that is used to attack gaps every snap run or pass. He needs a ton of work in coverage but his instincts as a run defender and pass rusher are outstanding. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Pace is a run stopper only. 2 downs, max.

Really interesting stuff today about not moving Jonah. I think that means we are not using taking a LT in Rd1. Williams & Carman. We will try to get a LT next year, assuming neither Jonah nor Carman take a leap.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(03-01-2023, 05:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Joe Mixon will have to be willing to take a pretty big pay cut, IMO, to deserve to stay on the team.

He was 17th in attempts last year but 27th in total rushing yards.

D'Onta Foreman was ahead of Mixon, and he was only on a 1-year, $2 mill contract.
Raheem Mostert was also ahead of Mixon, and he was on a 1-year, $2.125 mill contract.
Jeff Wilson also ahead of Mixon, and he was on a 1-year, $1.08 mill contract.
All of these guys also had less rushing attempts than Mixon despite still passing him in yardage.

The Bengals could find someone who can produce about the same as Mixon at a fraction of the cost.

I wonder what a guy like David Montgomery would cost?
He's had 1000-1500 yards from scrimmage every season the past 4 years, and he's set to hit Free Agency.
He's not one of the top RBs, but he can get some yards on the ground and he's a good receiver.
I'd be willing to bet he'll sign somewhere for $5 mill APY or under.

Mixon is fine. He's overpaid. But the line still sucks. We cannot run vs 2 deep safeties. I don't think we create another hole by waiving him....unless it helps us keep another guy. 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-01-2023, 11:04 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Mixon is fine. He's overpaid. But the line still sucks. We cannot run vs 2 deep safeties. I don't think we create another hole by waiving him....unless it helps us keep another guy. 

He frees up like $7 mill from releasing him, so yea it's worth it in my opinion.

[*Synric*]

(03-01-2023, 11:04 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Mixon is fine. He's overpaid. But the line still sucks. We cannot run vs 2 deep safeties. I don't think we create another hole by waiving him....unless it helps us keep another guy. 

Mixon has never been a top quality running back because he struggles with the two most important running back traits Vision and Contact Balance. Joe Mixon has been an average runner for most his career and that doesn't even consider receiving and blocking. 

[*bfine32*]

(03-01-2023, 09:23 PM)Synric Wrote: Ivan Pace reminds me of David Long Jr from a couple years back a very undersized linebacker that is used to attack gaps every snap run or pass. He needs a ton of work in coverage but his instincts as a run defender and pass rusher are outstanding. 

(03-01-2023, 10:57 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Pace is a run stopper only. 2 downs, max.

They discussed his pass coverage and both hosts and player agreed he looked good at The Senior Bowl (practice/game) in this aspect. Of course, they're both trying to sell the kid. I'm not sure I'd like to see him go man to man on Mark Andrews. 

[*Synric*]

(03-02-2023, 12:00 AM)bfine32 Wrote: They discussed his pass coverage and both hosts and player agreed he looked good at The Senior Bowl (practice/game) in this aspect. Of course, they're both trying to sell the kid. I'm not sure I'd like to see him go man to man on Mark Andrews. 

Less man more pattern matching zone coverages for a linebacker but I agree it will be all about how he develops instincts in zone coverages that tells how well he translates. 


I do wanna say that when David Long Jr from WVU came out everyone considered him Devin Bush lite....It turns out its the other way around Devin Bush is David Long lite. 

[007BengalsFan]

(03-01-2023, 11:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: He frees up like $7 mill from releasing him, so yea it's worth it in my opinion.

He frees up 10 million in cap space if the cut is designated a post June 1 cut.  There is no way you keep Mixon when you can save that much money by getting rid of him and getting somone else who can do just as good and only costs a fraction. 

The only way I would keep Mixon is if he took a big paycut and redid his contract to make his cap hit 5 million or less his last two years.  This would free up 7.5 - 8 million in additional cap space.  If he doesnt want to take a paycut then release him, save the 10 million in cap space, spend a couple million of that 10M on a free agent RB similar to the ones already mentioned so you end up with the 8 million you would have if Mixon would have taken a paycut.  

[NATI BENGALS]

(03-01-2023, 12:32 PM)Graphicguy Wrote: -For some players (assuming Mixon, Boyd, Bates), the Bengals value them and know their value, but want a team friendly deal to be struck.  I got the impression they would take Mixon back if he’s willing to restructure…probably true of Boyd, too.  Bates I think is going to ATL, unless we’re all really shocked and he stays on a team friendly deal.

A Boyd and Mixon restructure would free up enough to make me feel comfortable tagging Bates again. But we might be able to keep Pratt and Bell for the price of a Bates tag..?

(03-01-2023, 10:57 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Pace is a run stopper only. 2 downs, max.

Really interesting stuff today about not moving Jonah. I think that means we are not using taking a LT in Rd1. Williams & Carman. We will try to get a LT next year, assuming neither Jonah nor Carman take a leap.

Smoke screen for the incoming Jonah trade?

[WVUHomer]

(03-02-2023, 05:25 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: A Boyd and Mixon restructure would free up enough to make me feel comfortable tagging Bates again. But we might be able to keep Pratt and Bell for the price of a Bates tag..?


Smoke screen for the incoming Jonah trade?

If I'm not mistaken, since Boyd is in the final year of his contract, he can't be restructured. Only cut, trade or extending him to push the cap hit down the road is the options to reduce his cap number.

I still don't agree with bringing Bates back at his cost but maybe (as pointed out on the Locked On podcast) Juan Thornhill may come to us as a Bates-lite and have Hill replace Bell (their suggestion, not mine but I'd be willing to test that theory based on the contract numbers were hearing)

[TecmoBengals]

I'm interested in the TE position group since it is a position the Bengals might need to improve or add some depth. There appears to be many talented players in the '23 group. Perhaps the Bengals draft one of them.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-02-2023, 01:29 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: He frees up 10 million in cap space if the cut is designated a post June 1 cut.  There is no way you keep Mixon when you can save that much money by getting rid of him and getting somone else who can do just as good and only costs a fraction. 

The only way I would keep Mixon is if he took a big paycut and redid his contract to make his cap hit 5 million or less his last two years.  This would free up 7.5 - 8 million in additional cap space.  If he doesnt want to take a paycut then release him, save the 10 million in cap space, spend a couple million of that 10M on a free agent RB similar to the ones already mentioned so you end up with the 8 million you would have if Mixon would have taken a paycut.  

True, but that cap has to stay on the books until that date. Mixon can still be designated for that and let go prior, but the cap stays.
As such, waiting until June 1 for the cap to come off could limit what the Bengals do in FA.


But if the goal is to not spend to the cap in FA and use more money for extension to Burrow (and Higgins?), that extra $2.8 mill could come in handy.

[kalibengal]

(03-02-2023, 05:25 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: A Boyd and Mixon restructure would free up enough to make me feel comfortable tagging Bates again. But we might be able to keep Pratt and Bell for the price of a Bates tag..?


Smoke screen for the incoming Jonah trade?

I missed the "moving Jonah" stuff...
new position or trade?
I think Carman may have found his spot at LT.

[WVUHomer]

(03-02-2023, 11:38 AM)kalibengal Wrote: I missed the "moving Jonah" stuff...
new position or trade?
I think Carman may have found his spot at LT.

They said they won't move JW to RT but will test out Carman on that side.