Pollack "Comfortable with all those guys"

[BengalsBong]

(03-08-2023, 06:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This is my fear. It just doesn't seem like a smart idea to even be talking about moving Carman to RT honestly.

Now, Jonah has played RT in college and then they rule that out? I was like WTF?

The only thing I can see why they are wanting to try it is because Carman is stronger than Williams and drive blocks much better. Carman at RG was a disaster, so I do not see RT working out any better for him. The team and coaches need to draft guys for positions that they played in college at the very least keep them on the same side of the line that they played in college left side or right side.

[XenoMorph]

(03-08-2023, 10:05 PM)Emeritus Wrote:

As much as most would like to "Not" say it. Who has this guy really developed? I say that to ask the question. Do you trust him to rebuild this line for the future & develop young offensive line talent. Its a fair question. Who has he really made a "Better" player in his tenures here?

As much as we need OLine help don't be surprised if the pick goes to another room. Just saying.

Not at all...  would love a new OL coach

[SunsetBengal]

(03-09-2023, 11:09 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: What choice do we have we have a 2nd round pick and 12 million invested in LT already how many more resources can we push to LT this year.

Carman was not a Pollack pick. If Pollacks does not turn this run game around then Carman is most likely going to be on this team after Pollack is gone down the road to the next team.

Many people questioned Pollacks coaching methods last year standing on balls trying to balance. We have seen very little in way of development across the O-line with the second stringers. The starters was all already decent players when Pollack got his hands on them in Karras and Cappa. The one guy Pollack had any ties to Collins sucked and we are looking to upgrade at RT.

Pollack is on a short leash with me. Not the O-line players.

1.  Many alternate choices could be made, however there are 48 other roster spots that also need to be filled.

2.  Don't be so sure.  If Carman doesn't produce this year, the team can save $1.7M in cap space for 2024 by releasing him.

3.  Collins didn't "suck", he was playing injured all season long.  Funny how when people got on Williams for stinking it up, many said "but he was playing injured", but because Lael Collins tried to tough it out "he sucks".. 

FWIW most of us realized Lael Collins was a gamble, as we were all aware of his injury history.  The team gave him a shot, it didn't work out the way they wanted it to, time to release Collins and free up the cap space.

[coachmcneil71]

If I remember correctly, he drafted and developed some very young talent when he was with Dallas.

[Mike M (the other one)]

As long as he remains effective and communicates well, then yes. Can't always blame the coaches if a player doesn't improve, some have just already peaked, ala Billy Price, others might not reach their ceiling because of injuries (Ogy).

[jj22]

(03-09-2023, 11:40 AM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: If I remember correctly, he drafted and developed some very young talent when he was with Dallas.

They developed under Callahan. He ruined them and was fired for it.

[BengalsBong]

(03-09-2023, 11:32 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: 1.  Many alternate choices could be made, however there are 48 other roster spots that also need to be filled.

2.  Don't be so sure.  If Carman doesn't produce this year, the team can save $1.7M in cap space for 2024 by releasing him.

3.  Collins didn't "suck", he was playing injured all season long.  Funny how when people got on Williams for stinking it up, many said "but he was playing injured", but because Lael Collins tried to tough it out "he sucks".. 

FWIW most of us realized Lael Collins was a gamble, as we were all aware of his injury history.  The team gave him a shot, it didn't work out the way they wanted it to, time to release Collins and free up the cap space.

Fans from Dallas said he was lazy and would not practice last year he had tons of days off this year more than any other player. Players must pass a physical to get singed so I do not buy the injury excuse IMO he is a lazy bum. He will be right next to Pollack in the dog house until I see a change on the field. 

We are a Superbowl contender our standards have been raised and rightfully so across the board. Anything short of 4.5 yards per rush next year is a failure for Pollack and this is letting him off easy since the run game is about 35% to 40% of our offense if that much. They brought another coach in last year to help teach the o-line to pass block because Pollack sucks at that as well.

15 teams were 4.5 yards or better in yards per carry last year this is not asking too much. I care less about how many yards, we do not need 2000 yards from the run game.

[*Nately120*]

(03-09-2023, 10:02 AM)grampahol Wrote: Well, you did buy a damned guitar in the first place.. if you're not gonna sell a million records then don't go gettin all down on lil Justin even if sucks is his middle name.. ~Justin Sucks Beiber..  Apologies to everyone else with the name of Justin.. 

I'll have you know that my latest album, Full Contact Yodeling, went silver in Guam.

[Soonerpeace]

(03-08-2023, 07:58 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I totally understand not moving Jonah to RT.  Guy has been a LT for 7 straight years, we have no idea how he would do on the right side and we do not need that kind of uncertainty, hell we should be uncertain if he can handle LT this season.  The responsibility is on the personnel department to identify and draft, or sign, a RT.

Well they were forced to try Carman at LT. I disagree I think you at least try with Jonah.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-09-2023, 11:40 AM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: If I remember correctly, he drafted and developed some very young talent when he was with Dallas.

The only OL that was drafted in Dallas while Pollack was the OL coach and ended up performing well was La'el Collins, IIRC.

[casear2727]

(03-09-2023, 12:43 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Well they were forced to try Carman at LT. I disagree I think you at least try with Jonah.

I think every coach has been very clear that Jonah is not moving.

If Paris Johnson miraculously drops to 28, then MAYBE Jonah moves to the right, but after the combine interviews I'm not sure why anyone would think it would happen?

[*bfine32*]

(03-09-2023, 09:33 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I'll ask the question I always ask and rarely get an answer to. If you get rid of Pollack, who are you going to hire to replace him that is better than him?

Roy Istvan

[*bfine32*]

(03-09-2023, 02:31 AM)Joelist Wrote: They drafted a natural LT and tried to force him into RG. He's developing well just a little slower but when they finally put him in at LT he showed well. And contrary to your opinion so did Volson especially once the line had real reps as a unit. For a late round rookie to trend up all season and wind up playing at or a bit above the league average speaks well of the coaching. 

So yes Carman showing well in the playoffs at LT reflects well on Pollack and so does Volson developing into a solid starting Guard. He's had misses too (no doubt he also had a hand in the offense flipping back and forth in blocking schemes) but on the whole he can and has successfully developed OL talent. 

That's how you chose to start off your defense?

There were 66 OGs rated higher than Volson last year. Now I understand PFF is not perfect, but they can't get it THAT wrong. The best thing we can say about Pollack is that it appears he doesn't ruin veteran olinemen; although Karras is coming off his worse rated season of his career as a starter, Kappa had his worst season as a starter since his rookie season, and Collins just had his worst season ever. Hell so maybe I'm giving him too much credit by saying he doesn't ruin vets

[coachmcneil71]

(03-09-2023, 12:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The only OL that was drafted in Dallas while Pollack was the OL coach and ended up performing well was La'el Collins, IIRC.

I thought he drafted Fredericks the Center as well?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-08-2023, 09:00 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: There's almost always one, sometimes two guys that go in the top 20 that nobody had that high. NFL teams don't go by Mel Kipers draft board.

Damn rights. No one knows how the Draft will fall, there is always head scratching picks every single Draft and crazy trades.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-09-2023, 11:24 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: The only thing I can see why they are wanting to try it is because Carman is stronger than Williams and drive blocks much better. Carman at RG was a disaster, so I do not see RT working out any better for him. The team and coaches need to draft guys for positions that they played in college at the very least keep them on the same side of the line that they played in college left side or right side.

Or at least if you do Draft an OL and want to move him, he should of at least played on said side at one time.

Some OL cannot play on both sides, actually lots cannot. So you are correct, you don't draft Darnell Wright and put him at LT.

You draft him to play RT where he played at Tennessee.

Simple stuff really lol

(03-09-2023, 12:43 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Well they were forced to try Carman at LT. I disagree I think you at least try with Jonah.

You at the very least do not rule it out. All options should be on the table instead of painting yourself into a corner.

(03-09-2023, 12:55 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I think every coach has been very clear that Jonah is not moving.

If Paris Johnson miraculously drops to 28, then MAYBE Jonah moves to the right, but after the combine interviews I'm not sure why anyone would think it would happen?

Brian Callahan and Frank Pollack anyways...

Oh well, just have to hope beyond hope Darnell Wright falls to us and we take him and at the very least Carman becomes a
decent backup at both Tackle spots. Honestly don't see him being a good backup at RT from what we saw of him playing on
the right side.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-09-2023, 03:13 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I thought he drafted Fredericks the Center as well?

Pollack took over OL coach for Dallas 2015-2017.
Frederick was drafted 2013.
Zach Martin was drafted 2014.

Since Pollack took over as OL coach, here were the drafted OL:
2015 - Chaz Green (Rd 3), Laurence Gibson (Rd 7), La'el Collins (UDFA due to off-field reason)
2016 - none
2017 - none

With the Jets, here were his drafted OL:
2019 - Chuma Edoga (Rd 3)
2020 - Mekhi Becton (Rd 1), Cameron Clark (Rd 4)

And then his drafted OL with Bengals:
2018 - Price (Rd 1), Rod Taylor (Rd 7)
2021 - Carman (Rd 2), Smith (Rd 4), Hill (Rd 6)
2022 - Volson (Rd 4)

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-09-2023, 03:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Pollack took over OL coach for Dallas 2015-2017.
Frederick was drafted 2013.
Zach Martin was drafted 2014.

Since Pollack took over as OL coach, here were the drafted OL:
2015 - Chaz Green (Rd 3), Laurence Gibson (Rd 7), La'el Collins (UDFA due to off-field reason)
2016 - none
2017 - none

With the Jets, here were his drafted OL:
2019 - Chuma Edoga (Rd 3)
2020 - Mekhi Becton (Rd 1), Cameron Clark (Rd 4)

And then his drafted OL with Bengals:
2018 - Price (Rd 1), Rod Taylor (Rd 7)
2021 - Carman (Rd 2), Smith (Rd 4), Hill (Rd 6)
2022 - Volson (Rd 4)

I guess he did well with La'el Collins, Becton and Volson so not all bad. Carman finally coming around at his natural position etc.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-09-2023, 03:41 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I guess he did well with La'el Collins, Becton and Volson so not all bad. Carman finally coming around at his natural position etc.

I'm not sure sure, personally.
Becton has been in the league for 3 seasons and played only 739 offensive snaps, all but 48 of which came in 2020.
In that timespan, he's had 443 pass block snaps and allowed 25 total pressures including 7 sacks.
The jury is still out on whether he'll become a good player in his career, as he hasn't had much of an opportunity to see the field.

The pessimist in me wants to say just because Volson started at LG this past season, he still wasn't "good," but as a 4th round rookie coming from FCS school, he's coming along I guess. I hope he continues to ascend, as he's definitely one of the worst starters on the team right now.

Carman also is a question mark. He's looked decent at LT and even at LG for limited snaps in 2021. But he was a disaster at RG, no denying that.
This could be Carman's make-or-break season.

[TecmoBengals]

(03-09-2023, 03:41 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I guess he did well with La'el Collins, Becton and Volson so not all bad. Carman finally coming around at his natural position etc.

Oh man, don't type "Volson" that always leads to polarizing posts.