Why are the Bengals not clearing cap by restructuring deals?

[Au165]

The answer is because we need cash more than we need cap right now. The cash required for these big extensions is harder to have on hand than the cap to pull it off. Those restructures require cash and while the “Mike brown is greedy” narrative sounds fun the reality is they need to hoard cash right now because they have to put all the guaranteed money for these large deals in escrow.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-11-2023, 02:58 PM)Au165 Wrote: The answer is because we need cash more than we need cap right now. The cash required for these big extensions is harder to have on hand than the cap to pull it off. Those restructures require cash and while the “Mike brown is greedy” narrative sounds fun the reality is they need to hoard cash right now because they have to put all the guaranteed money for these large deals in escrow.

Well said.

[Nepa]

I see that the Charges went into the offseason $20.5 million over the cap, restructured contracts, lost none of key players, and now have $19 million in cap space and are looking to sign free agents.

A couple of quotes:

"The Los Angeles Chargers have solved their salary cap woes without having to release any formidable playmakers ahead of the new league year that starts on Wednesday."

" the Bolts restructured the contracts of edge rushers Joey Bosa and Khalil Mack and receivers Keenan Allen and Mike Williams, a league source told ESPN's Field Yates, which created a combined $40.37 million in salary cap space."

"Despite the team's cap compliance, roster moves remain a possibility as the Chargers prepare to fill needs in free agency."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35835340/sources-chargers-rework-joehttp://thebengalsboard.com/images/icons/smile.pngy-bosa-khalil-mack-deals-save-26m

Yeah, it is indeed frustrating every year to see teams with "salary cap woes," solve the problems by reworking contracts and then signing free agents to become stronger. I appreciate the explanations above, but every year I look at teams with salary cap issues and think, "well, they'll suffer now," only to see them magically end up with a lot of cap space and plan to sign free agents.

Oh, and the Bolts still have to sign a long-term deal with Herbert, like the Bengals need to do with Burrow.

[NATI BENGALS]

(03-11-2023, 03:32 PM)Nepa Wrote: I see that the Charges went into the offseason $20.5 million over the cap, restructured contracts, lost none of key players, and now have $19 million in cap space and are looking to sign free agents.

A couple of quotes:

"The Los Angeles Chargers have solved their salary cap woes without having to release any formidable playmakers ahead of the new league year that starts on Wednesday."

" the Bolts restructured the contracts of edge rushers Joey Bosa and Khalil Mack and receivers Keenan Allen and Mike Williams, a league source told ESPN's Field Yates, which created a combined $40.37 million in salary cap space."

"Despite the team's cap compliance, roster moves remain a possibility as the Chargers prepare to fill needs in free agency."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35835340/sources-chargers-rework-joehttp://thebengalsboard.com/images/icons/smile.pngy-bosa-khalil-mack-deals-save-26m

Yeah, it is indeed frustrating every year to see teams with "salary cap woes," solve the problems by reworking contracts and then signing free agents to become stronger. I appreciate the explanations above, but every year I look at teams with salary cap issues and think, "well, they'll suffer now," only to see them magically end up with a lot of cap space and plan to sign free agents.

Oh, and the Bolts still have to sign a long-term deal with Herbert, like the Bengals need to do with Burrow.

And right now they are projected to be 52 million over the cap next year.

[Nepa]

(03-11-2023, 04:58 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: And right now they are projected to be 52 million over the cap next year.

Good point. I went to spotrac and see where you are getting that. I guess there is a point where you have to pay the piper.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2024/

[Joelist]

(03-11-2023, 05:26 PM)Nepa Wrote: Good point. I went to spotrac and see where you are getting that. I guess there is a point where you have to pay the piper.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2024/

Yep! That's the flip side of restructuring. Ultimately the bill does come due - all you've done is push it off a bit. 

Another thing to remember is the Bengals typically front load their contracts. As such restructuring usually is a lot less of a help because the big monies in the deal are paid early instead of late. 

[Housh]

(03-11-2023, 03:32 PM)Nepa Wrote: I see that the Charges went into the offseason $20.5 million over the cap, restructured contracts, lost none of key players, and now have $19 million in cap space and are looking to sign free agents.

A couple of quotes:

"The Los Angeles Chargers have solved their salary cap woes without having to release any formidable playmakers ahead of the new league year that starts on Wednesday."

" the Bolts restructured the contracts of edge rushers Joey Bosa and Khalil Mack and receivers Keenan Allen and Mike Williams, a league source told ESPN's Field Yates, which created a combined $40.37 million in salary cap space."

"Despite the team's cap compliance, roster moves remain a possibility as the Chargers prepare to fill needs in free agency."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35835340/sources-chargers-rework-joehttp://thebengalsboard.com/images/icons/smile.pngy-bosa-khalil-mack-deals-save-26m

Yeah, it is indeed frustrating every year to see teams with "salary cap woes," solve the problems by reworking contracts and then signing free agents to become stronger. I appreciate the explanations above, but every year I look at teams with salary cap issues and think, "well, they'll suffer now," only to see them magically end up with a lot of cap space and plan to sign free agents.

Oh, and the Bolts still have to sign a long-term deal with Herbert, like the Bengals need to do with Burrow.

Just ewww


They could’ve just cut Mack and Allen. Or at least Allen.



They are gonna be screwed later

[George Cantstandya]

Question for the whole restructuring thing, what Bengals players would even be considered for restructuring if that were to happen? I see the term thrown out there as something that maybe should be done but no names mentioned. Or is it one of those, "I heard other teams are doing it so why not us?" things.

[Housh]

(03-11-2023, 07:39 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Question for the whole restructuring thing, what Bengals players would even be considered for restructuring if that were to happen? I see the term thrown out there as something that maybe should be done but no names mentioned. Or is it one of those, "I heard other teams are doing it so why not us?" things.

99% chance is the latter.

When you hear crazy stories like the Chargers freeing up all that space you get anxious as a fan

[Bengalholic]

(03-11-2023, 07:39 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Question for the whole restructuring thing, what Bengals players would even be considered for restructuring if that were to happen?  I see the term thrown out there as something that maybe should be done but no names mentioned.   Or is it one of those, "I heard other teams are doing it so why not us?" things.

The restructure that saves the most is Trey at about 5.9m, with Hubbard next at 4.46m.

[*Nately120*]

(03-11-2023, 10:21 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Is a Super Bowl win the only thing that matters? From a financial standpoint as an owner you want a solid sustainable team. The Rams are losing Bobby Wagner, Jalen Ramsey, Lost Von Miller, and are shopping Matt Stafford. Tampa Bay? How’d you like to be their prognosis?

Six of one, half dozen of another, I guess.  The Rams may have to stink for years thanks to going all in to win the 2021 SB, but in order for the Bengals to become what they are now we had to sit through 5 losing seasons in a row which included a 2-14 season and 4-win season where we got to see our shiny new rookie QB's knee get caved in.

Seems like you either pay now or pay later.

[Soonerpeace]

(03-12-2023, 01:03 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Six of one, half dozen of another, I guess.  The Rams may have to stink for years thanks to going all in to win the 2021 SB, but in order for the Bengals to become what they are now we had to sit through 5 losing seasons in a row which included a 2-14 season and 4-win season where we got to see our shiny new rookie QB's knee get caved in.

Seems like you either pay now or pay later.

Answer me this? Staying competitive and keeping Joe Burrow happy…is that important? The Bengals past history is just that. Staying competitive and having a shot each year at an AFC Championship & SB is pretty important. We had 3 OL starters out and lost to KC at the last due to an unlikely special teams lapse on a punt return and ill timed PF penalty. We beat KC with no sacks the first game this year w/ a healthy OL. Injuries derailed us. KC & Philly were healthy.

[*Nately120*]

(03-12-2023, 04:34 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Answer me this? Staying competitive and keeping Joe Burrow happy…is that important? The Bengals past history is just that. Staying competitive and having a shot each year at an AFC Championship & SB is pretty important. We had 3 OL starters out and lost to KC at the last due to an unlikely special teams lapse on a punt return and ill timed PF penalty. We beat KC with no sacks the first game this year w/ a healthy OL. Injuries derailed us. KC & Philly were healthy.

I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying we had to do a whole buttload of losing in order to get Burrow and Chase and to move on from Marvin.  We lost BEFORE being championship-caliber and the Rams are going to lose AFTER being championship-caliber.

I hate the Steelers, but they are a franchise that has found a way to win (or at least not lose a lot) year in and year out, while most other teams have to pay now or pay later for their success.

[Soonerpeace]

(03-12-2023, 05:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying we had to do a whole buttload of losing in order to get Burrow and Chase and to move on from Marvin.  We lost BEFORE being championship-caliber and the Rams are going to lose AFTER being championship-caliber.

I hate the Steelers, but they are a franchise that has found a way to win (or at least not lose a lot) year in and year out, while most other teams have to pay now or pay later for their success.

The Ravens and the Steelers both fit that. The past is the past. Frankly I believe Mike Brown has been the problem. I don’t know the whole history. He held onto Marvin too long and stifled Tobin. It’s obvious with the indoor facility, Paycor stadium deal, and free agency the last several years that there’s been some changes. It’s obvious that the combination of Taylor, Tobin, and Burrow has put the franchise on a great level and trajectory. Hopefully they have a great plan and solid decision making going forward.

[THE PISTONS]

Restructuring isn't magic. You create cap space now at the expense of later. The Bengals will be ok this year. Their issues will come later.

Reason 2 is I doubt they plan on spending much in free agency. When they have a good roster, they are typically conservative.

[*Go Cards*]

(03-12-2023, 05:45 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Restructuring isn't magic. You create cap space now at the expense of later. The Bengals will be ok this year. Their issues will come later.

Reason 2 is I doubt they plan on spending much in free agency. When they have a good roster, they are typically conservative.

Agree completely 

[Chezaugie]

How do you know they are not? Do you have some insider information?

Amazing how people will jump to conclusions about affairs that are behind closed doors.

Chill. Que sera, sera.

[Soonerpeace]

Looks like we have details on the Jalen Davis and Joe Bachie deals. Both come in well south of the RFA tags they were eligible for, Davis at ~1.2M/year for 2 years, Bachie at ~1.1M.

Neither contract features a big signing bonus or guarantees, as expected.

— Jake Liscow (@JakeLiscow) March 12, 2023

Looks to me like we played hard ball here and both guys wanted to stay.

[Graphicguy]

(03-10-2023, 07:29 PM)Housh Wrote: Brown loves to let guys play their contract out. He always misses out on cutting guys he should’ve probably cut.

I think he values honoring the deals he signs

YEP…MB has said as much many times.

[THE PISTONS]

Cap space will be needed most in 2-3 years when a Chase extension kicks in. Not now.

Many of our core guys are on rookie deals still.