Keeping Tee Will Have Some Consequences

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-09-2023, 10:55 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: And Chase has a different agent and mindset IMO

Different agent, yes. Mindset? Not sure about that. He’s going to want top dollar just like Tee. He basically said as much when asked about the JJ contract.

Unless you meant that he’s already a #1, so he doesn’t have that motivation to want to play somewhere else.

[Soonerpeace]

(09-09-2023, 11:14 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Different agent, yes. Mindset? Not sure about that. He’s going to want top dollar just like Tee. He basically said as much when asked about the JJ contract.

Unless you meant that he’s already a #1, so he doesn’t have that motivation to want to play somewhere else.

I’d expect Tee wants top 5 money. I don’t think he’s top 5. Chase wants top 5 money but won’t demand #1 money. He wants to stay with Burrow. That’s just my own speculation

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-09-2023, 07:34 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: People are so quick to say just draft a new RB when the deal is up. I like Tee a lot and if I could choose and money wasn't an issue I'd keep him. But we can draft a #2 wide receiver in the 2nd round most years. 

Yep. 

This is a business and as much as we all love Tee and would rather keep him, it's not a sound financial decision to pay an elite QB and 2 #1 WRs at the same time, i don't care how it's structured (because that structure only works for the first couple years). 

It's unfair to Tee to ask/expect him to take less than he's worth. If he ends up on another team, i'll still be a fan and appreciate what he did for the Bengals. 

Only 1 team pays 2 WRs 20M+ and they just signed their QB to a monster deal so when the time comes, one of them will most likely be gone.

Yoshi and Jones are good WRs who will do well with Burrow throwing them the ball and while they likely will not match Higgins output, his numbers will be covered by committee and as you said, there's always quality WRs available in rd2 of the draft and the Bengals have a long history of drafting really good ones in the 2nd.

Chase has been, and should always be the priority. He's a legit top 2 WR in the NFL.

[Bengalitis]

Tee deserves every penny, pay the man! fire the cheerleaders.. we dont need no stinking' cheerleaders..

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-09-2023, 11:21 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’d expect Tee wants top 5 money. I don’t think he’s top 5. Chase wants top 5 money but won’t demand #1 money. He wants to stay with Burrow. That’s just my own speculation

This was his comment when asked about JJ.

“I hope he sets the market for me," Chase told the media on Thursday. "That's what I'm hoping he does, but other than that congratulations to what he has going on. Proud of him, congratulations brother.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-09-2023, 11:28 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It's unfair to Tee to ask/expect him to take less than he's worth. If he ends up on another team, i'll still be a fan and appreciate what he did for the Bengals. 

I just hope he goes somewhere tolerable. Maybe the Bears? It sucks there’s so many WR needy teams in the AFC. Including probably our biggest rival at this point in the Chiefs.

But I do think we probably tag him next season, and a lot can change in a year.

[Essex Johnson]

(09-09-2023, 11:35 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I just hope he goes somewhere tolerable. Maybe the Bears? It sucks there’s so many WR needy teams in the AFC. Including probably our biggest rival at this point in the Chiefs.

But I do think we probably tag him next season, and a lot can change in a year.

I'm not sure we tag him  at probably over 26 to 28  m especially if it has been decided to  not sign him, I would hope the team is thinking progress for  now and future and trade him before draft . Then draft WR 1st round with added draft capital could move up or us extra pick to build depth.  

Then take the 26 m towards resigning Boyd or sign a solid veteran on a 1 year friendly to chase a title with Burrow and  give a buffer to rookie WR 1st yr growth. They can then  use say 15 m left for another contract. These seem better options  for a mix to help both short and long term than spending 26 to 28 m for 1 year with little hope of any true trade value and locks you out of any Boyd signing hope 

[Soonerpeace]

(09-09-2023, 11:35 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I just hope he goes somewhere tolerable. Maybe the Bears? It sucks there’s so many WR needy teams in the AFC. Including probably our biggest rival at this point in the Chiefs.

But I do think we probably tag him next season, and a lot can change in a year.

Well there you go I missed that … thanks

[tms]

Dynamics between agent and player are something we're not privy to, but surely dictate how these things go. I wouldn't be surprised if it were spelled out in the client agreement that their mutual goal was to take the best offer (i.e., most money). Which renders this nice guy stuff kinda moot. Also explains why so many players are in the dark around their negotiations, like Tee this week, "I have no clue." I guess a player could always hire a new agent willing to take a lesser deal, but that seems like a drastic step that most people- forget about millionaires- would be reluctant to take. After all, at the end of the day they are in it for the money. Also makes the player look bad and breaks a cardinal rule in the industry, which most business partners are reluctant to do and would defeat the purpose of their agreement.

"Forget those bigger offers, i'm staying here to win football games." Like, "No you're not. You wouldn't be honoring your end of our bargain. I wouldn't have added you as a client if I knew you were willing to leave $10 million on the table. That is real money, dude. We're going- we're going- wherever the work takes us. It'll be a new start and great journey in its right. You can win football games there too." I know we tend to see player/agent relationships like Jerry Maguire and Rod Tidwell but they're surely less emotional than that- by design. They are partners first and foremost. And even in jerry Maguire, I don't think name "Arizona Cardinals" was uttered by anybody at any time lol. It was the furthest thing from their minds.

[Soonerpeace]

(09-09-2023, 12:15 PM)tms Wrote: Dynamics between agent and player are something we're not privy to, but surely dictate how these things go. I wouldn't be surprised if it were spelled out in the client agreement that their mutual goal was to take the best offer (i.e., most money). Which renders this nice guy stuff kinda moot. Also explains why so many players are in the dark around their negotiations, like Tee this week, "I have no clue." I guess a player could always hire a new agent willing to take a lesser deal, but that seems like a drastic step that most people- forget about millionaires- would be reluctant to take. After all, at the end of the day they are in it for the money. Also makes the player look bad and breaks a cardinal rule in the industry, which most business partners are reluctant to do and would defeat the purpose of their agreement.

"Forget those bigger offers, i'm staying here to win football games." Like, "No you're not. You wouldn't be honoring your end of our bargain. I wouldn't have added you as a client if I knew you were willing to leave $10 million on the table. That is real money, dude. We're going- we're going- wherever the work takes us. It'll be a new start and great journey in its right. You can win football games there too." I know we tend to see player/agent relationships like Jerry Maguire and Rod Tidwell but they're surely less emotional than that- by design. They are partners first and foremost. And even in jerry Maguire, I don't think name "Arizona Cardinals" was uttered by anybody at any time lol. It was the furthest thing from their minds.

Since none of us likely here have much true insight in agents and players we are all guessing and surmising. And I definitely think yours is a solid post. But agents have to truly have their clients best interest. They must follow their wishes. But they also have to do their job. I believe players that care about their current team and the salary cap won’t demand unreasonable salaries. Not sure how many of those guys exist lol. But we’ve seen players restructure deals to accommodate Free Agents. I think that Tee’s negotiations are just that. I don’t think it’s a lost cause or very optimistic but it’s fluid. I can see Joe and Chase restructure down the road but doesn’t look like now.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-08-2023, 08:33 PM)TheFan Wrote: You'd be happy with a 6th round pick who hasn't even caught a ball in an NFL game as your #2 weapon? 

Why not? Many seem to think you can replace a 2nd rounder with a 5th. (Mixon-Brown)
He shows good potential and has 2 years to develop before possibly taking over. 
If he shows good growth, might be worth taking the chance. If not, you can spend a high draft pick in two years on a WR.

What happened to the Burrow will make the WR's better narrative?

[kevin]

(03-15-2023, 03:43 PM)GodFather Wrote: Obviously we are keeping Joe, so that is a no brainer. But keeping Tee with Joe and soon Chase, thats going to cost us alot of money. I know people aren't happy with so many players leaving in FA but this is what happens when we sign the big contracts coming up. Something will have to give.

I am just ECSTATIC we still have Lou and the other coaches. That is key. Those guys are going to find people to fit the system. Let them work their magic. They haven't let us down yet so let just let the process play out this offseason with FA and the draft.

We will be back on top competing for the ring this upcoming year...and the guys who left most likely wont but they will be getting whats most important to them..their money.

However Joe Burrow entire style of play at LSU and Bengals is to have many targets to throw to, and let Joe go into a Hurry Up when he is Hot and D can't keep up with how fast the plays are coming.   For that Bengals need Chase and Higgins and I like having Boyd.  There is no point keeping Burrow if you do not give him enough targets to do the Joe Burrow Attack.  We do not want to go back to the days of every pass to a Chad Johnson or every pass to AJ Green.  Defenses can cover that way to easy.  What defenses can't cover is a Joe Burrow with all these great receivers.  You know why Montana beat us in last seconds to Taylor ?  Because too many Bengals had to cover Rice.  Too many WR's to cover. 

As for salary cap, I look for salary cap in NFL to go way up due to all the Quarterbacks getting such a pay increase.  Not just Quarterbacks either, many positions are seeing player salaries sky rocket through the roof.   So the Salary Cap on NFL teams is going to have to go way up,  and that opens up cap space to keep Chase and Higgins and still keep other needed players on Offense and Defense. 

With Montana, Allen, Burrow and all these QB's greatly increasing what an NFL Teams Quarterback now makes, plus the money Nick Bosa just got on Defense, Salary Caps will go UP.  They have to.  The NFL can't keep the caps low if salaries are going up.  The room to keep Chase AND Higgins will be there, and if you want Joe Burrow LSU and Bengals style, you have to give Burrow many top targets to spread the ball around and wear Defenses out. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-09-2023, 12:41 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: What happened to the Burrow will make the WR's better narrative?

He has got 2 TE’s in a row paid. Just sayin.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-09-2023, 12:41 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Why not? Many seem to think you can replace a 2nd rounder with a 5th. (Mixon-Brown)
He shows good potential and has 2 years to develop before possibly taking over. 
If he shows good growth, might be worth taking the chance. If not, you can spend a high draft pick in two years on a WR.

What happened to the Burrow will make the WR's better narrative?

Sources, please. 

There were a lot of people saying that Zeke and Brown could replace Mixon for less money and better pass blocking (I was one of them). I don't recall "many" saying that Brown alone straight up could replace Mixon. It was always a cheap vet and a late pick, or a 2nd/3rd round pick being proposed, never just a 5th round pick alone.

- - - -

I do agree that it is strange the Burrow makes people around him better narrative has mysteriously vanished and been replaced by him needing to keep arguably the best WR trio in the league or two extremely highly paid WRs to be successful narrative. I don't think any of the guys on the roster now are probable replacements, but if they use a 2nd round pick on a WR to go with with Chase and the rest, they'll be okay.

[pdub2005]

I love Chase, and I was a Chase guy when it was the ole Sewell v. Chase debate, but I do have to say that Tee comes across as more mature. Tee just seems to get it, and I really hope we find away to keep him, because I think he is a big boon to our locker room(hey, I rhymed lol).

[tms]

(09-09-2023, 12:30 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Since none of us likely here have much true insight in agents and players we are all guessing and surmising. And I definitely think yours is a solid post. But agents have to truly have their clients best interest. They must follow their wishes. But they also have to do their job. I believe players that care about their current team and the salary cap won’t demand unreasonable salaries. Not sure how many of those guys exist lol. But we’ve seen players restructure deals to accommodate Free Agents. I think that Tee’s negotiations are just that. I don’t think it’s a lost cause or very optimistic but it’s fluid. I can see Joe and Chase restructure down the road but doesn’t look like now.

Yeah, restructuring is a good point. It doesn't need to be done right now. Who knows the market will look like when Tee comes up. They're also not all negotiating at once around the same table. In a sense, they don't have to necessarily share the same "pie"- they can eat at different times and to some extent take from different pies. Now whether one of them has to leave the "kitchen" remains to be seen...

This analogy is awful lol

[impactplaya]

It's apparent the Bengals undervalue Tee Higgins
They want to pay a top 10 WR like he is the 18th best WR
On a list of the Top 25.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-09-2023, 09:39 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Ok but Mixon’s contract is still too big for what he brings to the team.

Getting rid of his contract would be ideal

Didn't take long to find that Perfect Example, guy who said a 6th round can't replace a 2nd rounder but a 5th can replace a 2nd? 

[Soonerpeace]

(09-09-2023, 01:10 PM)impactplaya Wrote: It's apparent the Bengals undervalue Tee Higgins
They want to pay a top 10 WR like he is the 18th best WR
On a list of the Top 25.

I don’t think that’s true. My understanding is that Zac desperately wants to keep Tee but I’m sure he’s realistic. I don’t know that a hard line stance toward Tee fits with the important people of Zac,Joe, Chase, Callahan etc.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-09-2023, 01:10 PM)impactplaya Wrote: It's apparent the Bengals undervalue Tee Higgins
They want to pay a top 10 WR like he is the 18th best WR
On a list of the Top 25.

That’s not apparent at all.