Katie Blackburn-State of the Team

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-01-2023, 01:18 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Why?

What do we gain by cutting him before the draft? 

way to ignore the "sign someone else" part Fred. 

[Bengalholic]

(04-01-2023, 03:41 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: And once his contract is up, we'd have to replace him as he would get priced out of our range. I'd much rather draft a player that we could get into a 2nd contract with at a valuable position and not have to over pay for a position that is by everyone's standards cheaply replaceable.  

Now I'm personally hoping he's there, just so we can see what the Bengals do. 

I understand what you're saying and I would usually agree, but I just think Bijan is a different cat and is the one back that could change that approach. I think Bijan would make this offense scary as hell because of what he brings as a runner, receiver and pass blocker. Just my opinion though.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-01-2023, 04:12 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: I understand what you're saying and I would usually agree, but I just think Bijan is a different cat and is the one back that could change that approach. I think Bijan would make this offense scary as hell because of what he brings as a runner, receiver and pass blocker. Just my opinion though.

And i understand what you are saying as well, but it's not the right time. 
Maybe another 6-7 years from now when we want to give Joe's arm a rest lol. Til then, if Darnell Wright is there, just get him and hopefully he's the answer at RT for the next 10 years, if so, then sit back and relax and watch Burrow Level up.

[Brownshoe]

(04-01-2023, 04:31 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: And i understand what you are saying as well, but it's not the right time. 
Maybe another 6-7 years from now when we want to give Joe's arm a rest lol. Til then, if Darnell Wright is there, just get him and hopefully he's the answer at RT for the next 10 years, if so, then sit back and relax and watch Burrow Level up.

RBs can help QBs a ton. It's not really "give Joe Burrow's arm a rest". It's giving him another weapon and making the offense less predictable. Less predictable offenses help keep pressure off the QB. Plus it can open up the passing game even more. A RB isn't just a tool to run the ball. It helps open up the whole offense.

[Stewy]

(04-01-2023, 12:35 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: yeah, ever heard Mike Brown speak? 
If they were going to cut him, they would have done so by now and signed someone else.

You guys reaching HARD.

*BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*

Try again.  Cutting him after June 1 saves 10 million dollars.

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-01-2023, 04:12 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: I understand what you're saying and I would usually agree, but I just think Bijan is a different cat and is the one back that could change that approach. I think Bijan would make this offense scary as hell because of what he brings as a runner, receiver and pass blocker. Just my opinion though.

Just as a counter point, when he hits that 5th year option, the Bengals will be right in the meat of the big Burrow, Chase and Tee contracts and then you're looking at paying a QB, 2 WRs and a RB big money. Currently there's no model where a championship team is paying big contracts in that way. IF you could draft him and win a ring or two on his rookie deal, it would obviously be very worth it. If you can't, you've passed up a possiblity to draft a guy that could solidify a position of need for a decade, while also providing quality you need to chase a ring and you will have done it in a way where other models have worked.

Expanding on that, i love Tee as much as the next Bengals fan but i don't think signing him and drafting a RB in rd 1 is the way to go. You're basing your plan on a lot of hope and hope never won anything. Tee should be traded, the Bengals should go with RBBC with what they have and a guy like Gibbs or Spears in 2 or 3 and they should use their resources on moving up in rd 1 to get a RT and look for quality depth in the IOL in mid-rounds. 

The model should be QB (which we have), pay 1 elite weapon (Chase), RRBC (doable with what we have and what we can get), make Oline a #1 priority and then be able to pay an elite ED, some very good CBs and solid S and LBs. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-01-2023, 05:24 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: RBs can help QBs a ton. It's not really "give Joe Burrow's arm a rest". It's giving him another weapon and making the offense less predictable. Less predictable offenses help keep pressure off the QB. Plus it can open up the passing game even more. A RB isn't just a tool to run the ball. It helps open up the whole offense.

Sure they can help an offense. 
This offense is built for Joe and everything will go thru him. 

Less predictable? Any team that has an elite QB is going to pass first, run second. 
Elite RB? Run first, pass second. Can't get much more predictable than that.
Hardly any team has both. 

Do me a favor, look over the stats of the top 10 rushing RB's and top 10 passing QB's and see which group had more playing in the Post Season last year.

(04-01-2023, 12:56 PM)Stewy Wrote: *BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*

Try again.  Cutting him after June 1 saves 10 million dollars.

They could sign someone else, cut him now and mark him as a post June 1 cut and save the same. 
No more point in arguing this, let's just wait and see.

[Brownshoe]

(04-01-2023, 01:31 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Just as a counter point, when he hits that 5th year option, the Bengals will be right in the meat of the big Burrow, Chase and Tee contracts and then you're looking at paying a QB, 2 WRs and a RB big money. Currently there's no model where a championship team is paying big contracts in that way. IF you could draft him and win a ring or two on his rookie deal, it would obviously be very worth it. If you can't, you've passed up a possiblity to draft a guy that could solidify a position of need for a decade, while also providing quality you need to chase a ring and you will have done it in a way where other models have worked.

Expanding on that, i love Tee as much as the next Bengals fan but i don't think signing him and drafting a RB in rd 1 is the way to go. You're basing your plan on a lot of hope and hope never won anything. Tee should be traded, the Bengals should go with RBBC with what they have and a guy like Gibbs or Spears in 2 or 3 and they should use their resources on moving up in rd 1 to get a RT and look for quality depth in the IOL in mid-rounds. 

The model should be QB (which we have), pay 1 elite weapon (Chase), RRBC (doable with what we have and what we can get), make Oline a #1 priority and then be able to pay an elite ED, some very good CBs and solid S and LBs. 

You're looking too far in the future. 5 years is a long ass time in the NFL. A lot of things can happen. I would be happy with a super dynamic offense for 5 years and then look for a replacement or a stop gap. Plus, it's hard to tell whose going to be on the team in 5 years. Higgins might be gone by then. Hell, Chase could be gone by then. Honestly, I really doubt that Robinson gets to us. He's too good of a player. If he does there's no reason IMO that we pass up a player like that.

[Brownshoe]

(04-01-2023, 02:50 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Sure they can help an offense. 
This offense is built for Joe and everything will go thru him. 

Less predictable? Any team that has an elite QB is going to pass first, run second. 
Elite RB? Run first, pass second. Can't get much more predictable than that.
Hardly any team has both. 

Do me a favor, look over the stats of the top 10 rushing RB's and top 10 passing QB's and see which group had more playing in the Post Season last year.


They could sign someone else, cut him now and mark him as a post June 1 cut and save the same. 
No more point in arguing this, let's just wait and see.

Yes, no matter who we get at RB the offense will go through Joe. There's no question about that. It seems very silly to me to pass up legit one of the best players in the draft just because... we don't want to run the ball as much?? Letting Joe be able to confidently audible into a run play, or opening the offense up to more play action isn't a bad thing.

Just FYI 8 of the top 12 RBs in yards were in the playoffs last year. The ones that missed the playoffs just barely missed the playoffs. Having a good running back isn't something to be frowned upon.

[Stewy]

(04-01-2023, 08:01 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Just FYI 8 of the top 12 RBs in yards were in the playoffs last year. The ones that missed the playoffs just barely missed the playoffs. Having a good running back isn't something to be frowned upon.

Note:  The following is not me disagreeing with you......I'm just kinda talking out loud here.

______________________
Certainly an interesting stat, but not all situations are the same.  Our backs benefited from Joe B being here and opening things up for them.  Samje looked pretty good when he filled in for Mixon.  The Titans Off obviously goes through their RB.  Dallas' running game sets up their Off.  See Dak's stats when the running game isn't working.....they're not good.

My summary:  Successful teams have successful running games, even if they are pass focus.  But is that the RB or the team?  I don't think it automatically means the top 12 rb's in yards are the best 12rb's in the league, they could just be a product of having a good team.  

Best example was Barry Sanders.  That guy was an elite back on perennially crap teams.  His production obviously wasn't a product of the situation.

[Leon]

(04-01-2023, 01:31 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Just as a counter point, when he hits that 5th year option, the Bengals will be right in the meat of the big Burrow, Chase and Tee contracts and then you're looking at paying a QB, 2 WRs and a RB big money. Currently there's no model where a championship team is paying big contracts in that way. IF you could draft him and win a ring or two on his rookie deal, it would obviously be very worth it. If you can't, you've passed up a possiblity to draft a guy that could solidify a position of need for a decade, while also providing quality you need to chase a ring and you will have done it in a way where other models have worked.

Expanding on that, i love Tee as much as the next Bengals fan but i don't think signing him and drafting a RB in rd 1 is the way to go. You're basing your plan on a lot of hope and hope never won anything. Tee should be traded, the Bengals should go with RBBC with what they have and a guy like Gibbs or Spears in 2 or 3 and they should use their resources on moving up in rd 1 to get a RT and look for quality depth in the IOL in mid-rounds. 

The model should be QB (which we have), pay 1 elite weapon (Chase), RRBC (doable with what we have and what we can get), make Oline a #1 priority and then be able to pay an elite ED, some very good CBs and solid S and LBs. 

hate to say it but when burrow starts gettin 50 a year we aint gonna have chase either. you cant pay burrow an chase 80 million a year. so no chase. just to much for 2 players

[Sled21]

(04-01-2023, 02:50 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: They could sign someone else, cut him now and mark him as a post June 1 cut and save the same. 
No more point in arguing this, let's just wait and see.

Mixon and the NFLPA might have something to say about that. They can't cut him now and not pay him the extra money, period.

[Big_Ern]

(04-02-2023, 10:30 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Mixon and the NFLPA might have something to say about that. They can't cut him now and not pay him the extra money, period.

I think each team has 2 cuts they can designate as a post June 1 cut.  So they wouldn't owe him anything not guaranteed 

[THE PISTONS]

(04-01-2023, 08:59 PM)Leon Wrote: hate to say it but when burrow starts gettin 50 a year we aint gonna have chase either. you cant pay burrow an chase 80 million a year. so no chase. just to much for 2 players

Oh you can, it just impacts other areas of the roster.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-01-2023, 01:19 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: If Robinson is there at 28 Mixon can say goodbye

While I usually hate the idea of a RB in round 1, at pick 28 and that 5th year option is pretty dang attractive.  He is a top 10, and in some circles, a top 5 talent.  With Orlando Brown manning the LT position, I like the idea of having a beast at RB more than a versatile TE.  Irv Smith will be just fine and have his best season ever.  

TEs around the league will want to sign one-year deals with the Bengals, have a great year, and then get a bigger contract elsewhere.  

"Come on down to Cincy and catch passed from Joe Burrow for a year.  Next contract will be a lot bigger".  

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-01-2023, 07:46 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: You're looking too far in the future. 5 years is a long ass time in the NFL. A lot of things can happen. I would be happy with a super dynamic offense for 5 years and then look for a replacement or a stop gap. Plus, it's hard to tell whose going to be on the team in 5 years. Higgins might be gone by then. Hell, Chase could be gone by then. Honestly, I really doubt that Robinson gets to us. He's too good of a player. If he does there's no reason IMO that we pass up a player like that.

I'm looking at the end game "ifs". If during the RBs rookie contract, you get a ring(s), then it's worth it. If at the end of the contract you haven't won a ring, it's been a waste and a missed opportunity to follow a model that actually has had results. 

It's a stupid roll of the dice and "hope", which i'm not really excited at all about. 

We needed shiny new toys a couple years ago at the expense of blocking but now that we have the toys...we don't need MOAR toys. We need really good guys to block up front so those toys can do their thing. 

I mentioned before, the HC/QB combos and how if they haven't won a championship within their first 5 years together, they don't win one. Not a single one. The Bengals are going into year 4 of the Zac/Joe combo, this year. 

[THE PISTONS]

(04-03-2023, 10:16 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: While I usually hate the idea of a RB in round 1, at pick 28 and that 5th year option is pretty dang attractive.  He is a top 10, and in some circles, a top 5 talent.  With Orlando Brown manning the LT position, I like the idea of having a beast at RB more than a versatile TE.  Irv Smith will be just fine and have his best season ever.  

TEs around the league will want to sign one-year deals with the Bengals, have a great year, and then get a bigger contract elsewhere.  

"Come on down to Cincy and catch passed from Joe Burrow for a year.  Next contract will be a lot bigger".  

Yep. RB, DE, DT, CB, RT would all be positions I looked at.

IF Addison fell, that would tempt me. We'd have to trade Tee in that scenario.

I'm not interested in a TE in the 1st.

[THE PISTONS]

(04-03-2023, 11:22 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'm looking at the end game "ifs". If during the RBs rookie contract, you get a ring(s), then it's worth it. If at the end of the contract you haven't won a ring, it's been a waste and a missed opportunity to follow a model that actually has had results. 

It's a stupid roll of the dice and "hope", which i'm not really excited at all about. 

We needed shiny new toys a couple years ago at the expense of blocking but now that we have the toys...we don't need MOAR toys. We need really good guys to block up front so those toys can do their thing. 

I mentioned before, the HC/QB combos and how if they haven't won a championship within their first 5 years together, they don't win one. Not a single one. The Bengals are going into year 4 of the Zac/Joe combo, this year. 

Your last paragraph is intriguing. And probably a lot to it for discussion.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(04-01-2023, 12:56 PM)Stewy Wrote: *BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*

Try again.  Cutting him after June 1 saves 10 million dollars.

You can cut him now with a post-June 1 designation. There is nothing magical about waiting until June 1 to do it. 

But they are not gonna cut him just to cut him. Right now, there are no starting quality RBs available in FA. The only one in the draft is Robinson. And no real other FAs worthy of using $10 mil on. The only real starting spots we have open are TE1 and maybe punter. The rest is depth and future roster planning. Again, not big splash FA territory.

RT could become one, but if it does, you have Jonah's $12.6 mil free. And a more pressing need to draft an OT. Which makes drafting a Mixon replacement, or cutting him, LESS likely in my view. 

CB could become one with Chido's injury. At the moment, we have 4 boundary corners signed + Hilton, Davis, & Hill can play slot. Apple & Flowers remain FAs. If we feel uncertain about Chido's recovery/future, we can bring those guys back and/or draft a replacement early. But drafting a CB pushes RB back, and signing Apple or Flowers would necessitate freeing up additional cap space. 

[gman657]

RB plays a big part of our offense and Bijan would be an amazing fit but he won't reach ua.

Our play absolutely completely goes through burrow but mixon had more receptions than Boyd last year and 210_rushing attempts so a better back could improve our offence hugely and hate not even taking in to account his better blocking

Mixon
210 rushing attempts 810 yards (3.9 yards per attempt)
Receptions 441 yards (7.3 per reception)

Bijan
258 rushing attempts 1580 yards (6.9 yards per attempt)
19 Receptions 314 yards (16.5 per reception)

He obviously but would almost certainly not repeat his average in the NFL but as a very crude projection if he is used as much as mixon and that he loses 1.5 yards per rushing attempt and say 4 yards per reception...

Mixon total:: 1251 yards
Robinson crude projection : 1884 yards

I know those numbers are meaningless but just provided as am example of how overpaid mixon is. I don't think Robinson falls to us and I think we could find a day 2 or 3 rb but mixon has to be cut. I also think traveon could be a big part of offence if he stays fit. But drafting a rb that will earn less over 4 years than mixon earns in one year is an obvious move