Vs Series: Ken Anderson vs Boomer Esiason

[Shake n Blake]

As Bengals fans, we all (should) be very familiar with the resumes of our legends. These are the top 2 QBs in Bengals' history for now.

Who do you think had the better career as a Bengal?

I think most will probably vote for Ken, but I'd be interested to hear any arguments for Boomer.

[Danimal]

I am a huge fan of both. That being said, Ken Anderson was the more impactful QB for the organization. He weathered a lot of bad times and was able to become a winner. I still enjoy listening to him, very humble and enlightening. I still hate his face mask though.

[Stewy]

This has been the most difficult on thus far.

[Clark W Griswold]

Burrow (too soon?)

This is tough because Boomer was my favorite player when I was young(er) along with Munoz. Heart would say Boomer but my head says Kenny.
Anderson was the better player but Boomer had that strong arm. Also extra credit to him for being left handed. Just makes good QBs look better because it’s “different” I guess.

Kenny but it’s really close for me.

[*bengalfan74*]

Ken Anderson

However, Boomer will always be near the top of my favorite Bengals.

[Mer]

Boomer was the king of play action. I remember a few times a game the camera man would be fooled and follow the running back just to zoom back to Boomer as he was throwing the ball. That is a skill I'd love to see JB learn.

I'll vote Boomer, but partially because I didn't watch a lot of Anderson due to being too young during his career.

[TecmoBengals]

I grew up watching Boomer and like him better but I voted Anderson because I think he's a HoF worthy QB.

[dxdtdemon]

Ken was putting up completion percentages and passer ratings that other quarterbacks didn't put up until the changed a lot of rules to make things more passer friendly. If Bill Walsh had been kept around after Paul Brown retired, he probably would have been the first to throw 5,000 yards in a season.

[SladeX]

I’ve watched them both. Kenny

[*Go Cards*]

Both were very good but it's Kenny all day for me

Yet Boomer's play action fake was a thing of beauty.  Studying it should be a prerequisite before taking QB 101 classes even.

[Frank Booth]

The only people who vote Boomer are the people who saw Boomer but missed out on Anderson .

If you saw and remember both, it’s Anderson. And if you’re young enough to where you saw neither of them play, it’s still Anderson

[Shake n Blake]

Fun fact about Boomer. He would probably be a HOF lock if he'd spent his entire career with Coslet. He was a different player without him.

With Coslet:
7 seasons
51-43 record
22,719 yards
152 TDs to 86 INTs
89.0 passer rating (top tier for the era)

Without Coslet:
7 seasons
29-50 record
15,201 yards
95 TDs to 98 INTs
71.5 passer rating

This went for his time with the Jets as well. He made the Pro Bowl with Coslet, then fell off hard when Coslet left.

Then after looking completely washed for several years, he comes back to Cincy and plays like an MVP with Coslet.

[J24]

1 is going to the Hall of Fame and that is Kenny Anderson.

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-01-2023, 12:50 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Fun fact about Boomer. He would probably be a HOF lock if he'd spent his entire career with Coslet. He was a different player without him.

With Coslet:
7 seasons
51-43 record
22,719 yards
152 TDs to 86 INTs
89.0 passer rating (top tier for the era)

Without Coslet:
7 seasons
29-50 record
15,201 yards
95 TDs to 98 INTs
71.5 passer rating

This went for his time with the Jets as well. He made the Pro Bowl with Coslet, then fell off hard when Coslet left.

Then after looking completely washed for several years, he comes back to Cincy and plays like an MVP with Coslet.

Ken Anderson had a HoF career, no doubt. Against his peers he never lead the league in pass attempts but in completions, completion %, yards, TDs, YPA, YPG and passer rating, Anderson lead the leauge in one or more of those categories 15 times. Only Dan Fouts can exceed that during Anderson's career. In Boomer's career, he only did that 3 times. 

In argument for Boomer, who i picked regardless of any ignorant comments about how the only way someone would pick him was if they didn't see Anderson or either, he had a 6 year stretch ('85-'90) where he was an elite QB against tougher, HoF QBs. Boomer's Bengals career was much shorter but his overall numbers are comparable to Anderson's, in a different era. 

From '85 to '90 Boomer was:
#5 in Completions, behind Marino, Elway, Montana and O'Brien
#17 in Completion % (this is where Anderson has a huge advantage over Boomer)
#2 in Yards, behind Marino 20,851 to 24,122
#2 in TDs, behind Marino 147 to 173
#1 in YPA 8.1
#7 in YPG, behind Marino, Montana, Fouts, Moon, Everett and Rypien
#2 in Passer rating, behind Montana 86.7 to 94.0

Anderson had 8 winning seasons out of 13 where he had at least 9 starts. 61.5%
Boomer had 3 winning seasons out of 8 where he had at least 9 starts. 37.5%

Anderson had 4 pro bowls, 1 all pro, 1 MVP and 1 SB appearance.
Boomer had 4 pro bowls, 1 all pro, 1 MVP and 1 SB appearance. 

Anderson had 10 comebacks and 14 game winning drives.
Boomer had 16 comebacks and 22 game winning drives. 

In the post season:
Anderson was 2-4 with 9 TDs, 6 INTs and a 93.5 rating.
Boomer was 3-2 with 4 TDs, 3 INTs and a 71.1 rating. 

"Better career as a Bengal" is pretty subjective and requires a lot of context and who you saw or didn't see isn't the only reason you would pick one or the other. 

[Gary Milne]

Ken Anderson was superior in every way to Boomer expect for arm strength and play action.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-01-2023, 02:24 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Ken Anderson had a HoF career, no doubt. Against his peers he never lead the league in pass attempts but in completions, completion %, yards, TDs, YPA, YPG and passer rating, Anderson lead the leauge in one or more of those categories 15 times. Only Dan Fouts can exceed that during Anderson's career. In Boomer's career, he only did that 3 times. 

In argument for Boomer, who i picked regardless of any ignorant comments about how the only way someone would pick him was if they didn't see Anderson or either, he had a 6 year stretch ('85-'90) where he was an elite QB against tougher, HoF QBs. Boomer's Bengals career was much shorter but his overall numbers are comparable to Anderson's, in a different era. 

From '85 to '90 Boomer was:
#5 in Completions, behind Marino, Elway, Montana and O'Brien
#17 in Completion % (this is where Anderson has a huge advantage over Boomer)
#2 in Yards, behind Marino 20,851 to 24,122
#2 in TDs, behind Marino 147 to 173
#1 in YPA 8.1
#7 in YPG, behind Marino, Montana, Fouts, Moon, Everett and Rypien
#2 in Passer rating, behind Montana 86.7 to 94.0

Anderson had 8 winning seasons out of 13 where he had at least 9 starts. 61.5%
Boomer had 3 winning seasons out of 8 where he had at least 9 starts. 37.5%

Anderson had 4 pro bowls, 1 all pro, 1 MVP and 1 SB appearance.
Boomer had 4 pro bowls, 1 all pro, 1 MVP and 1 SB appearance. 

Anderson had 10 comebacks and 14 game winning drives.
Boomer had 16 comebacks and 22 game winning drives. 

In the post season:
Anderson was 2-4 with 9 TDs, 6 INTs and a 93.5 rating.
Boomer was 3-2 with 4 TDs, 3 INTs and a 71.1 rating. 

"Better career as a Bengal" is pretty subjective and requires a lot of context and who you saw or didn't see isn't the only reason you would pick one or the other. 

These 2 stats are very much linked. Boomer had a much lower completion % and a much higher YPA because he was taking way more deep shots.

I've been trying to avoid giving my opinion in these, but I think this is much closer than the Ken guys are saying. Had Boomer stayed with Coslet (or an offense suited to his strengths) for his entire career, he would've surpassed 40,000 yards pretty easily, and the stats you posted show that his peak was HOF worthy. Bad teams and offenses not suited to his strengths held him back a bit, IMO.

[KillerGoose]

I voted Ken and I'm in the "not really that close" department. For instance, I have Boomer as #3 in my Bengals QB list, already surpassed by Burrow. Ken will be harder to get by, though. As with a lot of these comparisons, we have to respect the fact that the game evolved between these guys. So, we can do a quick comparison using era adjusted stats. These are the passer+ metrics from PFR.

YPA - Ken, 3% better
NY/A - Ken, .5% better. Basically a wash. 
AY/A - Ken, 7% better
ANY/A - Ken, 5% better
Cmp% - Ken, 17% better
TD% - Boomer, 7% higher
INT % - Ken, 15% better
Sack% - Boomer, 8% lower
Rating - Ken, 9% higher

To put these into 2022 numbers, here is what an "average" adjusted season would look like for these two guys, based on Joe Burrow's attempts...

Ken - 7.5 YPA, 4,505 yards, 68.3 completion percentage, 27 TDs, 10 INTs, 99 rating
Boomer - 7.4 YPA, 4,484 yards, 64.9% completion percentage, 30 TDs, 15 INTs, 93 QB rating

This is based off seasons where they had more than 200 passing attempts. I think that not only did Ken have the better career, but he had the higher peak. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-03-2023, 08:36 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: These 2 stats are very much linked. Boomer had a much lower completion % and a much higher YPA because he was taking way more deep shots.

I've been trying to avoid giving my opinion in these, but I think this is much closer than the Ken guys are saying. Had Boomer stayed with Coslet (or an offense suited to his strengths) for his entire career, he would've surpassed 40,000 yards pretty easily, and the stats you posted show that his peak was HOF worthy. Bad teams and offenses not suited to his strengths held him back a bit, IMO.

Yessir.

[*bfine32*]

Ken Anderson. A part of his game that doesn't get enough love is his running with the ball, Few during his era did it better

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-03-2023, 09:55 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I voted Ken and I'm in the "not really that close" department. For instance, I have Boomer as #3 in my Bengals QB list, already surpassed by Burrow. Ken will be harder to get by, though. As with a lot of these comparisons, we have to respect the fact that the game evolved between these guys. So, we can do a quick comparison using era adjusted stats. These are the passer+ metrics from PFR.

YPA - Ken, 3% better
NY/A - Ken, .5% better. Basically a wash. 
AY/A - Ken, 7% better
ANY/A - Ken, 5% better
Cmp% - Ken, 17% better
TD% - Boomer, 7% higher
INT % - Ken, 15% better
Sack% - Boomer, 8% lower
Rating - Ken, 9% higher

To put these into 2022 numbers, here is what an "average" adjusted season would look like for these two guys, based on Joe Burrow's attempts...

Ken - 7.5 YPA, 4,505 yards, 68.3 completion percentage, 27 TDs, 10 INTs, 99 rating
Boomer - 7.4 YPA, 4,484 yards, 64.9% completion percentage, 30 TDs, 15 INTs, 93 QB rating

This is based off seasons where they had more than 200 passing attempts. I think that not only did Ken have the better career, but he had the higher peak. 

I went back and tweaked my previous numbers, to compare each to their peers in their "prime" years. For Anderson it was '73 to '78. For Boomer is was still '85 to '90 but i adjusted my filters to make it at least 10 TDs and 1100 pass attempts for Anderson and 10 TDs and 1500 pass attempts for Boomer to weed out the guys who would only have a couple years worth of stats in that time frame. These are the results i got vs. their peers in that time period. 

I'm not sure exactly how this correlates to 'better Bengals QB' but it's something to look at, along the 'adjusted' line. I'm 100% on board with the era adjusted numbers you posted but i still don't believe that "it's not really close" because they're competing against their peers in an attempt to win rings.

From '73 to '78 Anderson was:
#4 in Completions, behind Tarkenton, Staubach and Hart
#5 in Completion % behind Tarkenton, Stabler, Griese and Staubach 
#4 in Yards, behind Staubach, Tarkenton and Hart
#5 in TDs, behind Stabler, Staubach, Tarkenton and Hart
#4 in YPA, behind Stabler, Griese and Staubach
#5 in YPG, behind Tarkenton, Staubach, Hart and Zorn
#6 in Passer rating, behind Griese, Staubach, Tarkenton, Jones and Stabler
------------------------
33/7 = 4.7 average vs peers

From '85 to '90 Boomer was:
#5 in Completions, behind Marino, Elway, Montana and O'Brien
#8 in Completion %, behind Montana, Kelly, O'Brien, Marino, Krieg, Kosar and Lomax
#2 in Yards, behind Marino 20,851 to 24,122
#2 in TDs, behind Marino 147 to 173
#1 in YPA 8.1
#5 in YPG, behind Marino, Montana, Moon and Everett
#2 in Passer rating, behind Montana 86.7 to 94.0
------------------------
25/7 = 3.6 average vs peers

Granted, these are only a portion of the available statistical comparison.