The Fundamental Question going forward

[*Go Cards*]

(04-03-2023, 06:54 PM)jason Wrote: Pretty sure Chase has to play out his rookie contract regardless of being extended after next year... Right?

Yes but won't the cap hit be much higher ? 

Don't know and just asking, seems to me it would yet not positive.

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-03-2023, 10:46 PM)impactplaya Wrote: OK so that means you were against the Bengals drafting Chase over Sewell.
OK to each his own . No problem. 

You're not paying attention. You can't ask a hypothetical question then say that's what i prefer. A previous post even explained this. 

I was for drafting Chase and then dealing Tee because Chase is a clear upgrade. I'm against signing a QB and 2 WRs to big money but not against signing a QB, a WR and a T to big money.

I can't make it any clearer. One way has a proven track record and the other doesn't.

[THE PISTONS]

(04-03-2023, 05:11 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I never bought into that theory that just because you
Have a elite QB then you can simply sign bargain bin
WRs and poof he makes them look that much better
It's funny I never heard Colts fans wanting to 
Show Reggie Wayne the door even though they 
Had Dallas Clark and Marvin Harrison.

I swear some of you want Higgins gone even though 
Duke Tobin wants him here and TEE HIGGINS WANT TO REMAIN A BENGAL. 
have any of you paranoid armchair GMs ever considered that maybe Joe Burrow himself 
Insists that the Bengals both retain Chase and Higgins. Joe has a unique chemistry with both 
And unshakeable trust. 

There is no rule that says just because you have 
A elite QB it doesn't mean you can't elite WRs to go
With him. 

I'd love to have kept Bates, Bell, and every good free agent. With a salary cap, you can't do that.

[THE PISTONS]

(04-03-2023, 06:30 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Those three will be paid. i am just not sure I agree with your assumption on how much they will be paid. I would estimate something like this for all 3: Right now, in 2023 they account for 24 million in cap hits already.

2023 - Burrow extended for 10 years at 450 million with 70% or 315 million guaranteed. Deal includes a 200 million signing bonus which they will pro rate over the additional 10 years, years 2024 through 2033. So, in 2023 cap hit does not change for Burrow. So they will have paid 200 million +11.5 salary for 2023 or 211.500 of the guarantee in 2023.
2024 - 20 million to signing bonus (yearly cap hit for 10 years) + 10 million i base salary = 30 million cap hit
2025 - 20 million to signing bonus + 10 million to salary for 30 million cap hit 
Guarantees paid in 1st 3 years = 231,500 of the 315,000 million
2026- 18 million in salary + 20 million bonus = 38 million cap hit
2027 - 20 million in salary + 20 million cap hit = 40 million
2028 - 25 million in salary + 25 million cap hit = 45 million
After 2029 majority of guarantee is paid off
2029 - 20 million bonus cap + 35 million in salary = 55 million
2030 - 20 million bonus cap + 35 million in salary = 55 million


2031 - 20 million in bonus signing cap + 48 million = 68 million
2032 - 20 million signing bonus + 48million = 68million

This does assumes Joe agrees to on average 45 million a year versus 50 million or higher. But, as you can see, the key is the guaranteed money and the amount of any signing bonus. The signing bonus can be spread over the life (number of years) of the contract which reduces the early year cap hits, but still gives team flexibility in later years to convert and lower the cap to create cap space.


Some fans believe if I guy is pad 450 million over 10 years, then the cap hit is 45 million a year for 10 years. It can be, but huge contracts are not structured this way, the cap hit are smaller in the earlier years and then heavier in the layer years.


The same can be done for Chase and Higgins, we have Chase locked up for a total of five years, so 3 more years. We have Higgins locked up through 2024. My point is we have time to sign them to extensions, the key is does the team have the cash to pay big upfront bonuses to help manage the cap easier.

Even Burrow is locked into us until after the 2024 season, they want to extend him to get him locked in at 2023 prices versus 2025 prices, same for Higgins and Chase.

That's a nice post that shows the cap hits.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-03-2023, 04:54 PM)Nepa Wrote: My prediction is that as soon as the Bengals let a sure-thing go in Higgins, they will fail to find suitable replacements for the money saved and the Bengals will decline. So many posters are just assuming that the money saved will translate into quality defensive and offensive players. Did fans forget the Bengals once used a 9th overall pick on John Ross? Or David Pollack getting injured? Higgins is a sure thing. Draft picks and free-agents (Waynes) don't always work out the way dreamed.

The other thing is this continual comparison to the Chiefs letting Tyreek Hill go and still winning a Super Bowl. The Chiefs had homefield advantage based on quite a fortuitous schedule, including 6 wins in their relatively easy division.  And still they probably would have lost had the Bengals not lost 3/5 of their OL. The Chiefs lost to their two biggest opponents in the regular season (Bills and Bengals), and had quite a few very close wins over poor opponents, or they might have had their first away game postseason game with Mahomes.

And the Chiefs also have the most unique weapon in Travis Kelce, with his 110 receptions and 1338 yards. I would not be using their model for the Bengals.

Nor do I want to spend the next ten years watching Higgens playing for some competitor. Try not to let the sure thing go. Higgins, Chase, and Joe have been the cornerstone of what is a passing offense.

That is the thing, you have to look at all sides of the equation. If we want to spend that money on OL, who is out there at this 
moment that can be an upgrade to what we currently have? What can we do NOW. Honestly, the best way to keep this team 
competitive at this very moment is the extend our current proven players. I could also see us declining if we let Tee go which 
honestly doesn't seem like it is going to happen.

We will extend Burrow, Tee, DJ and Wilson this Offseason pretty sure and in 2026 we should have the money for Ja'Marr. Alternating
the contracts of Tee and Ja'Marr makes it possible to keep both and Burrow, DJ and Logan.

[*Synric*]

Need to put together a Tee Higgins highlight video with Sam Hunt's Gonna Make You Miss Me lol.

Blessing the TL today

Catch or no catch this was ridiculous pic.twitter.com/UyhSDyBSrE

— Just Another Bengals Fan (@JustaBengalsFan) April 4, 2023

[impactplaya]

(04-04-2023, 07:37 PM)Synric Wrote: Need to put together a Tee Higgins highlight video with Sam Hunt's Gonna Make You Miss Me lol.

Blessing the TL today

Catch or no catch this was ridiculous pic.twitter.com/UyhSDyBSrE

— Just Another Bengals Fan (@JustaBengalsFan) April 4, 2023

Yeah we really need to let this kind of talent
Go to another team cause " oh no cause paying
2 WRs top dollar will paralyze this franchise
For years to come. " 
No big thing cause WRs of his caliber are
A dime a dozen in college. The Bengals front can find
Another Tee Higgins. 
That's why half the league has inquired
About trading for him cause , right?

[Ell Prez]

(04-04-2023, 01:41 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is the thing, you have to look at all sides of the equation. If we want to spend that money on OL, who is out there at this 
moment that can be an upgrade to what we currently have? What can we do NOW. Honestly, the best way to keep this team 
competitive at this very moment is the extend our current proven players. I could also see us declining if we let Tee go which 
honestly doesn't seem like it is going to happen.

We will extend Burrow, Tee, DJ and Wilson this Offseason pretty sure and in 2026 we should have the money for Ja'Marr. Alternating
the contracts of Tee and Ja'Marr makes it possible to keep both and Burrow, DJ and Logan.

I doubt we resign DJ reader. He’ll be on his 3rd contract. I agree on keeping tee chase and burrow

[Daddy-O]

(04-03-2023, 07:51 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Honestly if Tee hits the market I think KC snatches him up immediately and they continue to win the AFC. They really haven't replaced T. Hill, and they would love to take one of our weapons away from us. Keep Tee at all costs.

Agree.  If we don't make it work some other team will and we'll regret it.

[*Nately120*]

(04-05-2023, 10:37 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: Agree.  If we don't make it work some other team will and we'll regret it.

Make it work or make it happen?  Sounds good, but lordy if we have a top paid QB and two #1 WRs making mad bucks this front office is going to have to show that it is elite beyond drafting Burrow and Chase and Tee, because we will have a very high priced offense and not a lot of cap room and (ideally) no draft picks in the top 30 of the draft for years to come.

This is where our FO has to prove they're elite for the first time in decades. 

[THE PISTONS]

(04-05-2023, 11:34 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Make it work or make it happen?  Sounds good, but lordy if we have a top paid QB and two #1 WRs making mad bucks this front office is going to have to show that it is elite beyond drafting Burrow and Chase and Tee, because we will have a very high priced offense and not a lot of cap room and (ideally) no draft picks in the top 30 of the draft for years to come.

This is where our FO has to prove they're elite for the first time in decades. 

Yes. There's risk either way.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-03-2023, 07:51 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Honestly if Tee hits the market I think KC snatches him up immediately and they continue to win the AFC. They really haven't replaced T. Hill, and they would love to take one of our weapons away from us. Keep Tee at all costs.

You really think so?  After letting T. Hill go, all they did was throw a handful of affordable vets at the position, and went on to win the Superbowl.  If anything, the Chiefs should be looked at as the model of "how to keep your team stocked while supporting a mega QB contract".  So far, that model would appear to me to be that your QB gets to keep one super weapon, invest big in OL, keep your defense strong.  

[*Synric*]

The Chiefs traded Tyreek Hill and it worked out for them. How about the other WR trades... 

Ravens could have used Hollywood Brown back. The Titans tried to draft and replace the production of AJ Brown but damn was their receiving core ugly. QB play was a part of that but the receivers were bad or injured too. Calvin Ridley was suspended but the Falcons definitely need receivers and they got really nothing for him. I'm on the side of the Cowboys screwed up trading Amari Cooper and like Falcons & Ridley they didnt get anything.

[Eraserhead]

(04-05-2023, 01:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You really think so?  After letting T. Hill go, all they did was throw a handful of affordable vets at the position, and went on to win the Superbowl.  If anything, the Chiefs should be looked at as the model of "how to keep your team stocked while supporting a mega QB contract".  So far, that model would appear to me to be that your QB gets to keep one super weapon, invest big in OL, keep your defense strong.  

The Eagles with Hurts went and added AJ Brown,, even though they already had DaVonta Smith and Dallas Goedert. They went to the SB and will probably be right there in contention for another one this year too. More than one way to skin the ole cat.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-05-2023, 09:23 AM)Ell Prez Wrote: I doubt we resign DJ reader. He’ll be on his 3rd contract. I agree on keeping tee chase and burrow

Defense might fall apart without DJ Reader. Mazi Smith better be in our thoughts if this is the case.

I would give DJ a 2 year extension and have him here being The Gravedigger myself.

(04-05-2023, 01:41 PM)Synric Wrote: The Chiefs traded Tyreek Hill and it worked out for them. How about the other WR trades... 

Ravens could have used Hollywood Brown back. The Titans tried to draft and replace the production of AJ Brown but damn was their receiving core ugly. QB play was a part of that but the receivers were bad or injured too. Calvin Ridley was suspended but the Falcons definitely need receivers and they got really nothing for him. I'm on the side of the Cowboys screwed up trading Amari Cooper and like Falcons & Ridley they didnt get anything.

(04-05-2023, 01:50 PM)Eraserhead Wrote: The Eagles with Hurts went and added AJ Brown,, even though they already had DaVonta Smith and Dallas Goedert. They went to the SB and will probably be right there in contention for another one this year too. More than one way to skin the ole cat.

Good points as Sunset has a good point as well. We are different than the Chiefs, we have our own way, they have theirs with Kelce.

Tee makes doubling Chase a questionable proposition. I also think we will bring back Tee, so just going off of what it looks like.

No need for me to doubt this FO in keeping their proven players. We all know how we have drafted OL, been bad in the first round 
for awhile. We could use Tee's money on a stud RT next FA, so I understand Sunset's point entirely. Also the AJ Brown comparison I 
think is a fair one when seeing how the Titans passing Offense pretty much fell apart and the Eagles Offense exploded.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-05-2023, 01:50 PM)Eraserhead Wrote: The Eagles with Hurts went and added AJ Brown,, even though they already had DaVonta Smith and Dallas Goedert. They went to the SB and will probably be right there in contention for another one this year too. More than one way to skin the ole cat.

The difference being that Hurts is on a rookie contract, and the point of what I was writing about was how the Chiefs are managing a roster with a franchise QB on a mega contract.  So, not really a good comparison, at all.

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-05-2023, 01:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You really think so?  After letting T. Hill go, all they did was throw a handful of affordable vets at the position, and went on to win the Superbowl.  If anything, the Chiefs should be looked at as the model of "how to keep your team stocked while supporting a mega QB contract".  So far, that model would appear to me to be that your QB gets to keep one super weapon, invest big in OL, keep your defense strong.  

They're not gonna pay 15M+ for a #1 WR. 

[Eraserhead]

(04-05-2023, 03:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The difference being that Hurts is on a rookie contract, and the point of what I was writing about was how the Chiefs are managing a roster with a franchise QB on a mega contract.  So, not really a good comparison, at all.

It wasn't a direct comparison to the Chiefs. It was to show there's more than one way to do things for the Bengals in their current situation.

The Eagles have a QB up for a huge extension. They also have a WR on a rookie contract who will eventually get paid and another on a 20+ contract,, which will be Tee's area if he gets a deal. Neither the Eagles or Bengals are into the mega deals yet,, so we'll see how they handle things in the next few years and if they follow more of the Chiefs style or do it their own way and create their own models.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-05-2023, 03:47 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: They're not gonna pay 15M+ for a #1 WR. 

How much do they pay Kelce?

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-05-2023, 06:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: How much do they pay Kelce?

Looks like he's a 14.8M hit this year. I don't know what they would have been willing to pay Hill but they won't pay OBJ 20M right now. Looks like they're more, pay Mahomes and Kelce then go committee with RBs and WRs. 

Apparently, OBJ recently said he doesn't need 20M but i have a hard time believing he will take less than 10-15 and they haven't offered him yet.