Cody Ford - A top 'under the radar' signing

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(04-03-2023, 02:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Not sure exactly who Kenneth Teape is, or if his opinion should be strongly valued, but I'll take all of the positive press we can get when it comes to the Bengals.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bengals-signing-cody-ford-named-top-under-the-radar-move/ar-AA19qepg?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7b2045e7e62d4c6694315eabd7a38e91&ei=65

That article is linking another artcle from ESPN where the local NFL writer (Ben Baby for us) picked an under the radar move FOR EACH team. He oicked Ford. 

1) The entire premise that for is a "top" under the radar move is false. Every team got one. 

2) Baby is a dope. Irv Smith, Sidney Jones, and Nick Scott are ALL better under the radar signings than Ford in my view. All those guys will play. Ford won't unless there are tons of injuries. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-04-2023, 12:25 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Well with an almost unanimous board decision on Mixon going forward the meltdown will be epic. Problem of course is convincing Justin Hill, Zac, Brian, and Pollard. Much less his teammates lol

Mixon brings a lot of positives to the team. He's always there, works hard, great teammate and locker room leader and can produce, with volume. He's just not an efficient back, doesn't block well and he's not a threat to break a long run any time soon. His vision and contact balance isn't very good and he tends to do just enough, sporadically, to keep himself in the starting lineup because the Bengals aren't known for simply replacing guys that don't produce as much as you'd like vs expectations, if they're all of those other things. 

I think the things he brings are things the FO and coaches like. Burrow is the focal point. If Mixon were the focal point, i think there's more likelihood he would be replaced sooner. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-04-2023, 06:44 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Mehhhhh

Pass rush win percentage doesn't matter eh TLL?

All about sacks?

(04-04-2023, 07:39 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: There's nothing wrong with a Power Gap rushing attack.  They've tried ad-nauseum to do the Wide Zone, and for one reason or another it just hasn't worked well with any consistency.  The best rushing attack is the one that your players can execute well, over and over again.

Being able to line up and move your opponent off of the ball is a great thing to be able to do.

These OL besides Adeniji just aren't built for the Wide Zone, they are power guys without athleticism.

(04-04-2023, 10:10 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I liked Cody Ford coming out of college.
He had sufficient length and size to stay outside, but he does lack some lateral athleticism.
We might see him not being able to consistently stay with guys who try to rush outside around him.
Ford reportedly prefers to play RT over guard anyway, which should be a motivating factor for him.
We'll see if he actually ends up being any kind of decent, but I'll honestly take anyone over Adeniji at this point.

Completely agree with everything you say Ochocincos. We will see if Ford finally settles down and plays well here.

I also liked Ford in that Draft and was for us drafting him in the mid rounds. He was solid at Oklahoma, nothing like he has been 
in the NFL. I thought Adeniji played well at one point in the season, but once again when we needed him to play his best in the 
Playoffs he sucked and this was at Tackle which is his only position he should play.

(04-04-2023, 11:30 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Nathan, you keep saying this but teams want to run a mixture of schemes. They don't want to be tied down to one or the other. It makes them easier to defend.

Of course, but if we run the Wide Zone the majority of the time with these players we will struggle. They aren't athletic at all.

The least liked guy in Adeniji is the most athletic.

(04-04-2023, 11:31 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Mixon doesn't have the traits to run a good zone scheme. 

Funny, I remember a couple years ago analysts saying how Mixon is built for the wide zone. Then, when we ran the gap scheme he 
actually ran well. I agree, Mixon just doesn't fit what we are running on Offense anymore. Need good pass pro and good vision in all
schemes. Really warming up on Charbonnet in this draft, he fits.

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-04-2023, 01:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Pass rush win percentage doesn't matter eh TLL?

All about sacks?


These OL besides Adeniji just aren't built for the Wide Zone, they are power guys without athleticism.


Completely agree with everything you say Ochocincos. We will see if Ford finally settles down and plays well here.

I also liked Ford in that Draft and was for us drafting him in the mid rounds. He was solid at Oklahoma, nothing like he has been 
in the NFL. I thought Adeniji played well at one point in the season, but once again when we needed him to play his best in the 
Playoffs he sucked and this was at Tackle which is his only position he should play.


Of course, but if we run the Wide Zone the majority of the time with these players we will struggle. They aren't athletic at all.

The least liked guy in Adeniji is the most athletic.


Funny, I remember a couple years ago analysts saying how Mixon is built for the wide zone. Then, when we ran the gap scheme he 
actually ran well. I agree, Mixon just doesn't fit what we are running on Offense anymore. Need good pass pro and good vision in all
schemes. Really warming up on Charbonnet in this draft, he fits.

Gimme Gibbs. He gives me James Brooks vibes.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-04-2023, 01:47 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Gimme Gibbs. He gives me James Brooks vibes.

I could see that. He can work on his pass protection, he can do everything else great. If we pick him, the coaches would have talked to 
him about pass pro prior pretty sure.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-03-2023, 04:15 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree

I'm not getting my hopes to high that Ford is anything other than (hopefully) a decent backup. Carman on the other hand showed a bit of promise late last season. Crossing fingers he can finally develop into a good starter.

I hope so, but flipping guys from Left to Right and vice versa doesn't always work, a scout once said, it's like switching hands to wipe!

[Soonerpeace]

(04-04-2023, 12:51 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Mixon brings a lot of positives to the team. He's always there, works hard, great teammate and locker room leader and can produce, with volume. He's just not an efficient back, doesn't block well and he's not a threat to break a long run any time soon. His vision and contact balance isn't very good and he tends to do just enough, sporadically, to keep himself in the starting lineup because the Bengals aren't known for simply replacing guys that don't produce as much as you'd like vs expectations, if they're all of those other things. 

I think the things he brings are things the FO and coaches like. Burrow is the focal point. If Mixon were the focal point, i think there's more likelihood he would be replaced sooner. 

The bottom line is they would have not let Perine leave if they knew Joe was going to be cut. And most all the posters know that the Brown’s are very gracious when they do it. They’d have already done it so he could land somewhere before FA and the draft. If they were going to release him and free up a large amount of cap space they’d have got a DT or someone else. Releasing him now benefits them very little.

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-04-2023, 01:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I could see that. He can work on his pass protection, he can do everything else great. If we pick him, the coaches would have talked to 
him about pass pro prior pretty sure.

That's not gonna keep me from drafting him. I'm not bringing him in to protect Burrow. I'm bringing him in for the potential to take it to the house on any down. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-04-2023, 01:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Pass rush win percentage doesn't matter eh TLL?

All about sacks?

We had a guy who was good with pass rush win rate (which is determined by a random person watching film and determining if they "won" within a certain period of time regardless of if they actually make an impact on the play, who knows what exactly "winning" means either and how consistent that criteria is) and we moved on from him FOR Hendrickson because he had sacks. A pass rush win isn't even a pressure which is already a fractional value of a sack.

Hendrickson had 1.5 sacks in the KC playoff game in 2021 and they won. Do we think that if Hendrickson had that in the 2022 KC playoff game rather than 0.0 and leading the NFL in "pass rush win ratio" that they would have still lost?

Just don't care much about non-tangible stats that rely on a third party's judgement calls to calculate and even if calculated correctly don't ensure there was an actual impact on the game.

[bengals1969]

(04-03-2023, 02:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Not sure exactly who Kenneth Teape is, or if his opinion should be strongly valued, but I'll take all of the positive press we can get when it comes to the Bengals.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bengals-signing-cody-ford-named-top-under-the-radar-move/ar-AA19qepg?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7b2045e7e62d4c6694315eabd7a38e91&ei=65

The Bengals have made RT a position with the deepest depth on the line with Carman, Williams, Ford and Collins vying for spots. I really don't see the need to draft a RT this month.  They need depth at LT maybe upgrade at center.  I know nothing about Ford but doubt he will beat out either Carman or Williams.  If Williams leaves via trade they still have good RT depth.  The Bengals ought to focus on the rushing and corners in this draft.  Deep draft on Dline and corners so they ought to go 1,2 in the draft.  Then go RB/TE/LT in the other rounds, in whatever order fits.

[Joelist]

The sacks falloff has been more about lack of interior pass rush than anytthing else. We're stopping the inside run but not consistently pressuring on the inside.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-04-2023, 02:18 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That's not gonna keep me from drafting him. I'm not bringing him in to protect Burrow. I'm bringing him in for the potential to take it to the house on any down. 

I get that. We haven't had that at RB since Brooks.

(04-04-2023, 02:28 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: We had a guy who was good with pass rush win rate (which is determined by a random person watching film and determining if they "won" within a certain period of time regardless of if they actually make an impact on the play, who knows what exactly "winning" means either and how consistent that criteria is) and we moved on from him FOR Hendrickson because he had sacks. A pass rush win isn't even a pressure which is already a fractional value of a sack.

Hendrickson had 1.5 sacks in the KC playoff game in 2021 and they won. Do we think that if Hendrickson had that in the 2022 KC playoff game rather than 0.0 and leading the NFL in "pass rush win ratio" that they would have still lost?

Just don't care much about non-tangible stats that rely on a third party's judgement calls to calculate and even if calculated correctly don't ensure there was an actual impact on the game.

Fair enough, definitely understand that, but you can see with your own eyes when Hendrickson is really giving a LT a lot to handle.

My point stands, Trey is still a premier pass rusher, especially when he is healthy and not playing with a broken wrist IMO.

[Joelist]

(04-04-2023, 07:39 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: There's nothing wrong with a Power Gap rushing attack.  They've tried ad-nauseum to do the Wide Zone, and for one reason or another it just hasn't worked well with any consistency.  The best rushing attack is the one that your players can execute well, over and over again.

Being able to line up and move your opponent off of the ball is a great thing to be able to do.

With the current OL lineup they better be using Power Gap as the line is now maulers all across. Make Power Gap the base scheme and run it often enough that everyone is comfortable using it. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-04-2023, 03:29 PM)Joelist Wrote: The sacks falloff has been more about lack of interior pass rush than anytthing else. We're stopping the inside run but not consistently pressuring on the inside.

We need Zach Carter to either really step up or need to add a 3-tech than can do the job no question.

(04-04-2023, 03:32 PM)Joelist Wrote: With the current OL lineup they better be using Power Gap as the line is now maulers all across. Make Power Gap the base scheme and run it often enough that everyone is comfortable using it. 

Yes, I could understand it if all the guys we have been adding were athletic OL, but they are not. Like you say, they are maulers.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-04-2023, 03:29 PM)Joelist Wrote: The sacks falloff has been more about lack of interior pass rush than anytthing else. We're stopping the inside run but not consistently pressuring on the inside.

Here's the thing, interior DL that can both stop the run and rush the passer are hard to find, and become super expensive once those abilities have went on display.  When you have a team with an expensive franchise QB and a pair of top contract WRs, it cuts into the budget of what you can do at other positions.  You can have a mixed stable of moderately priced interior DL, but eventually rotating in the pass rush specialists in likely situations will become a tip to the offense that it's time to pull the surprise gut check.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-04-2023, 01:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: These OL besides Adeniji just aren't built for the Wide Zone, they are power guys without athleticism.

Check out the video clips highlighting the movement of our interior 3, prior to Cappa getting injured.  Watch those clips and then decide if they are just "power guys without athleticism".

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2023/1/24/23569178/2023-nfl-playoffs-bengals-chiefs-mahomes-burrow-mixon

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-04-2023, 04:56 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Check out the video clips highlighting the movement of our interior 3, prior to Cappa getting injured.  Watch those clips and then decide if they are just "power guys without athleticism".

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2023/1/24/23569178/2023-nfl-playoffs-bengals-chiefs-mahomes-burrow-mixon

Cool Sunset.

Well, I meant more of the new guys in Orlando Brown and Cody Ford, but yeah, Cappa and Karras can move. Volson is more of a power
guy though, as is LC when healthy. Jonah is pretty athletic at times when he is in shape, but I doubt he is still around. Need to run both 
schemes it just really stood out to me when the OL was healthy when we were running more of the power Gap in a good way.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-04-2023, 05:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Cool Sunset.

Well, I meant more of the new guys in Orlando Brown and Cody Ford, but yeah, Cappa and Karras can move. Volson is more of a power
guy though, as is LC when healthy. Jonah is pretty athletic at times when he is in shape, but I doubt he is still around. Need to run both 
schemes it just really stood out to me when the OL was healthy when we were running more of the power Gap in a good way.

Volson shows some good athletic burst, especially when asked to pull across the formation, in front of the RB.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-04-2023, 05:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Volson shows some good athletic burst, especially when asked to pull across the formation, in front of the RB.

Love it when he pulls and does it well, no question. Volson blocks mean. 

A lot of people's biggest critique of Volson (Ochocincos) is that he is a bit stiff and is not the most athletic OL. But yeah, he can do it.

[Gary Milne]

(04-04-2023, 05:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Love it when he pulls and does it well, no question. Volson blocks mean. 

A lot of people's biggest critique of Volson (Ochocincos) is that he is a bit stiff and is not the most athletic OL. But yeah, he can do it.

He's not athletic enough to be a starting LG. That's painfully obvious. I admire what the kid did last year being thrown into the fire and at least surviving, but his limitations are very real.