Update On Burrow's Extension

[Soonerpeace]

(05-17-2023, 01:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Same way I feel about Herbert. We got the right guy.


Agree on the Offense not reaching its potential yet. I don't even think they have scratched the surface of what they can do with a 
decent OL in front of Burrow and imagine a running game to go along with all these weapons? The greatest show on turf is a fair 
comparison on what they can become.

Also, pretty sure we only have 2 new starters in the Secondary in Dax Hill and Nick Scott. Dax I have high hopes for and Lou brought
in Scott for a reason, he is smart, likes to hit and is fast. Chido, CTB and Hilton are most likely the rest of the starters in the Secondary.

CTB got his feet wet and played well once the pro game slowed down for him and played in his natural position as the Left Corner. He 
isn't a new starter, he started games as a rookie.


Same way I feel Harley. Proud of my QB, he just wants to win and believes he needs his weapons to win. That is why Tee will be here
along with Ja'Marr, plus their contracts won't be at the same time. They offset each other which makes it all possible. I just hope we can
extend DJ Reader in all of this extension talk. I think we will, as we didn't draft a run stopping DT.

CTB did start what? A 1/2 dz games? I should have said 2 1/2 starters lol. It’s still has some inexperience and chemistry issues.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-17-2023, 01:53 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: CTB did start what? A 1/2 dz games? I should have said 2 1/2 starters lol. It’s still has some inexperience and chemistry issues.

Yeah, but he got some damn good experience though for 1/2 a dozen games. Couldn't get better experience...

There should be some issues early though, as you say, especially with the new Safeties.

[Housh]

(05-17-2023, 02:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, but he got some damn good experience though for 1/2 a dozen games. Couldn't get better experience...

There should be some issues early though, as you say, especially with the new Safeties.

Dax being here last year is definitely damage control but i actually expect us to struggle in the secondary.


Healing Awuzie, new safeties.



I think everyone we have is solid so they’ll get it together but i do think we give up long TDs and i do feel it’ll be a narrative here that the secondary isn’t up to par.

[brian5562]

Didn't CTB start 9 regular season games plus 3 playoff games. All of which were W's with the lone exception being the final game.

[Ell Prez]

I’m listening to locked on bengals, and seeing all the recent JB quotes on his future contract, there’s a lot of speculation that he’s going to do a team friendly deal, so he can keep his weapons around him.

While this would be great, you have to ask if that was the case, why isn’t the deal done? The bengals would be rushing to the desk to get that paper inked if they could get a team friendly deal. What’s taking so long?

Two viable explanations. 1.) JB made it clear he will take a discount but he wants Higgins signed to X years and they’re negotiating with Higgins. But looking at Higgins quotes, it doesn’t look like much contract conversation has been happening. 2.) he’s not doing a team friendly deal, he’s going to reset the market and the bengals and Burrows agent are negotiating bqcj and forth.

Which one seems more plausible?

[Luvnit2]

(05-18-2023, 09:47 AM)Ell Prez Wrote: I’m listening to locked on bengals, and seeing all the recent JB quotes on his future contract, there’s a lot of speculation that he’s going to do a team friendly deal, so he can keep his weapons around him.

While this would be great, you have to ask if that was the case, why isn’t the deal done? The bengals would be rushing to the desk to get that paper inked if they could get a team friendly deal. What’s taking so long?

Two viable explanations. 1.) JB made it clear he will take a discount but he wants Higgins signed to X years and they’re negotiating with Higgins. But looking at Higgins quotes, it doesn’t look like much contract conversation has been happening. 2.) he’s not doing a team friendly deal, he’s going to reset the market and the bengals and Burrows agent are negotiating bqcj and forth.

Which one seems more plausible?

3. Maybe Burrow or team is close, but they want until wait until after June 1, FA's after June 1, do not impact future compensatory picks. Team may have someone in mind which would impact cap for 2023.

[KillerGoose]

(05-18-2023, 09:47 AM)Ell Prez Wrote: I’m listening to locked on bengals, and seeing all the recent JB quotes on his future contract, there’s a lot of speculation that he’s going to do a team friendly deal, so he can keep his weapons around him.

While this would be great, you have to ask if that was the case, why isn’t the deal done? The bengals would be rushing to the desk to get that paper inked if they could get a team friendly deal. What’s taking so long?

Two viable explanations. 1.) JB made it clear he will take a discount but he wants Higgins signed to X years and they’re negotiating with Higgins. But looking at Higgins quotes, it doesn’t look like much contract conversation has been happening. 2.) he’s not doing a team friendly deal, he’s going to reset the market and the bengals and Burrows agent are negotiating bqcj and forth.

Which one seems more plausible?

I think #2 is the most viable. In my opinion, it is almost certain that Burrow is going to reset the market. However, that doesn't mean it won't be team friendly. I think Burrow is going to be around $55MM APY, but the team friendliness of the contract will be in how it is structured. I think that it will be a contract we look back on here in three or four years and say "man, this is a bargain". We have to keep in mind that whatever contract he signs doesn't hit the cap until 2025. With cap increases and inflating QB contracts, $55MM (or whatever he signs for) is going to seem good, relatively speaking. 

[BleedNOrange]

This idea that Burrow is going to take a "discount" is absurd. He is going to get paid, and rightfully so. The questions will be around structure. How much is guaranteed vs. signing bonus vs. incentives & the corresponding CAP impacts. I do not know all the subtleties in contracts. I do think Burrow is willing to work with them on being one of the highest if not the highest paid but also structuring the contract as to not hamstring them so they can't resign others.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(05-18-2023, 09:57 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: 3. Maybe Burrow or team is close, but they want until wait until after June 1, FA's after June 1, do not impact future compensatory picks. Team may have someone in mind which would impact cap for 2023.

I thought the magic date for this was after the draft? I could be wrong on that, though. 

[*ochocincos*]

(05-18-2023, 09:47 AM)Ell Prez Wrote: I’m listening to locked on bengals, and seeing all the recent JB quotes on his future contract, there’s a lot of speculation that he’s going to do a team friendly deal, so he can keep his weapons around him.

While this would be great, you have to ask if that was the case, why isn’t the deal done? The bengals would be rushing to the desk to get that paper inked if they could get a team friendly deal. What’s taking so long?

Two viable explanations. 1.) JB made it clear he will take a discount but he wants Higgins signed to X years and they’re negotiating with Higgins. But looking at Higgins quotes, it doesn’t look like much contract conversation has been happening. 2.) he’s not doing a team friendly deal, he’s going to reset the market and the bengals and Burrows agent are negotiating bqcj and forth.

Which one seems more plausible?

I would imagine that if Burrow is adamant about wanting Higgins to stay a Bengal, he wants that deal done first before signing a deal of his own.

Personally, I'd love to re-sign Higgins, but not for a crazy amount. Bengals should be able to draft a 800+ yard WR to replace him if he chooses to walk for more money. I get that it's easier to say than do though.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-17-2023, 06:10 PM)Housh Wrote: Dax being here last year is definitely damage control but i actually expect us to struggle in the secondary.


Healing Awuzie, new safeties.



I think everyone we have is solid so they’ll get it together but i do think we give up long TDs and i do feel it’ll be a narrative here that the secondary isn’t up to par.

I am preparing for that early in the season, but I think they will get it figured out and Dax will be stud down the road.

Also once Chido is completely 100% and in game shape we should be fine. CTB just got better and better and Hilton is still a
top Slot Corner even if he had a bad game against the Chiefs. DJ Turner I think will be a damn good cover corner in the future
and there is a reason Lou brought in Brick Scott. We are incredibly fast in the Secondary and Lou is great at working with these 
guys. I don't expect us to struggle long. Hopefully the Offense carries us through in the early games while they gain chemistry.

(05-17-2023, 07:32 PM)brian5562 Wrote: Didn't CTB start 9 regular season games plus 3 playoff games. All of which were W's with the lone exception being the final game.

Yes. That is some valuable experience no question.

[Housh]

(05-18-2023, 05:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am preparing for that early in the season, but I think they will get it figured out and Dax will be stud down the road.

Also once Chido is completely 100% and in game shape we should be fine. CTB just got better and better and Hilton is still a
top Slot Corner even if he had a bad game against the Chiefs. DJ Turner I think will be a damn good cover corner in the future
and there is a reason Lou brought in Brick Scott. We are incredibly fast in the Secondary and Lou is great at working with these 
guys. I don't expect us to struggle long. Hopefully the Offense carries us through in the early games while they gain chemistry.


Yes. That is some valuable experience no question.

CTB did it alot last year but i suspect we value fast corners for their recovery abilities when they get beat. Playing like that worked when you had Jesse abates utterly erasing 1/3 of the field but idk how it’s gonna work now

[casear2727]

(05-21-2023, 03:41 AM)Housh Wrote: CTB did it alot last year but i suspect we value fast corners for their recovery abilities when they get beat. Playing like that worked when you had Jesse abates utterly erasing 1/3 of the field but idk how it’s gonna work now

Is this how Bates is going to be remembered?  "Jesse Bates utterly erasing 1/3 of the field",  I like him and he was a solid player but the last game I watched he was too late giving help on the only deep WR that luckily dropped a TD pass, and saw him play a role in both TDs that KC did score.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-21-2023, 03:41 AM)Housh Wrote: CTB did it alot last year but i suspect we value fast corners for their recovery abilities when they get beat. Playing like that worked when you had Jesse abates utterly erasing 1/3 of the field but idk how it’s gonna work now

Fast Corners can keep up with the fastest Receivers and cover them better. If you are deficient speed wise you are much more likely to 
get beat. Don't understand where you are going there. Dax Hill and Nick Scott are overall much faster than Jessie Bates and Vonn Bell.

It is true that Bates when playing his best is a very good rangy 1 high Safety, but that doesn't mean he didn't suck at times too as Casear
here says. Plus the tackling should be better with Dax Hill who is a very good tackler. Also must add that Nick Scott had to play with Ramsey
who just did what he felt like doing and it made the entire Rams secondary struggle at times in coverage.

This won't happen here, we won't have a Corner doing his own thing. Lou's secondary's work as a team.

(05-21-2023, 11:42 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Is this how Bates is going to be remembered?  "Jesse Bates utterly erasing 1/3 of the field",  I like him and he was a solid player but the last game I watched he was too late giving help on the only deep WR that luckily dropped a TD pass, and saw him play a role in both TDs that KC did score.

Yep, dude was bad against the Chiefs. Not saying Bates is a bad player, but Dax Hill could certainly end up being better overall.

[phil413]

(05-18-2023, 09:47 AM)Ell Prez Wrote: I’m listening to locked on bengals, and seeing all the recent JB quotes on his future contract, there’s a lot of speculation that he’s going to do a team friendly deal, so he can keep his weapons around him.

While this would be great, you have to ask if that was the case, why isn’t the deal done? The bengals would be rushing to the desk to get that paper inked if they could get a team friendly deal. What’s taking so long?

Two viable explanations. 1.) JB made it clear he will take a discount but he wants Higgins signed to X years and they’re negotiating with Higgins. But looking at Higgins quotes, it doesn’t look like much contract conversation has been happening. 2.) he’s not doing a team friendly deal, he’s going to reset the market and the bengals and Burrows agent are negotiating bqcj and forth.

Which one seems more plausible?

Let's play along with scenario 1.  I don't think he takes a discount, but maybe he takes the current top QB rate rather than wait for Mahomes to reset it again and then top that.  So, we pay Higgins top 8-10 WR money on say a short term deal and Burrow then signs.  It's a win win as it allows Tee to cash in even more later.  

If there is any connection to Burrow taking the current #1 rate (or a little less which I highly doubt) it remains to be seen how ownership will look at Burrow in terms of leverage for the 2026 lease expiration. That may play into it either way.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-21-2023, 11:42 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Is this how Bates is going to be remembered?  "Jesse Bates utterly erasing 1/3 of the field",  I like him and he was a solid player but the last game I watched he was too late giving help on the only deep WR that luckily dropped a TD pass, and saw him play a role in both TDs that KC did score.

Bates had games where that bolded was true.  However at the same time, we should not remember him only for a couple of mistakes, either.  The truth lies in his body of work, which earned him a very lucrative contract in Atlanta.  Fact is, I wish he was still a Bengal, though I understand the economics of the situation.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-21-2023, 07:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Bates had games where that bolded was true.  However at the same time, we should not remember him only for a couple of mistakes, either.  The truth lies in his body of work, which earned him a very lucrative contract in Atlanta.  Fact is, I wish he was still a Bengal, though I understand the economics of the situation.

You should remember everything. He was pretty damn great when he played hard, but not that good when he didn't and was playing
for an extension. He was a great cover Safety a lot of the time, but a poor tackler at times and made plenty of mistakes.

We should also remember that we wouldn't have Daxton Hill here if Jessie Bates was still a Bengal. I like Dax's upside much more than
I did Jessie's before we drafted either one and still stand by this big time. Dax can do everything that Jessie does well, we just have yet
to see him truly get a chance like Jessie had.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-21-2023, 08:56 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You should remember everything. He was pretty damn great when he played hard, but not that good when he didn't and was playing
for an extension. He was a great cover Safety a lot of the time, but a poor tackler at times and made plenty of mistakes.

We should also remember that we wouldn't have Daxton Hill here if Jessie Bates was still a Bengal. I like Dax's upside much more than
I did Jessie's before we drafted either one and still stand by this big time. Dax can do everything that Jessie does well, we just have yet
to see him truly get a chance like Jessie had.

I agree with most of what you said, Nate.  I'm as excited for our new players as you are.  However, last year's secondary was like a great pot of soup.  All of the ingredients were good or fit well, the pot had been stirred (coached well) and basically it satisfied well.  This year, we're looking at "new soup", new players that we aren't sure how they will respond to the coaching.

I have a strong feeling that come the end of the season, all will be well with our feelings on the secondary, but I really feel like the first half of the season will be vulnerable on the back end.  The second half of the season should be quite exciting to see all of these new play makers in action.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-21-2023, 09:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree with most of what you said, Nate.  I'm as excited for our new players as you are.  However, last year's secondary was like a great pot of soup.  All of the ingredients were good or fit well, the pot had been stirred (coached well) and basically it satisfied well.  This year, we're looking at "new soup", new players that we aren't sure how they will respond to the coaching.

I have a strong feeling that come the end of the season, all will be well with our feelings on the secondary, but I really feel like the first half of the season will be vulnerable on the back end.  The second half of the season should be quite exciting to see all of these new play makers in action.

Yes, it will be a growing experience, especially for Dax Hill and Nick Scott at Safety. All I know is there were times last year when Bates
clearly was playing not to get hurt. That will not be the case with these guys at Safety.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-21-2023, 09:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, it will be a growing experience, especially for Dax Hill and Nick Scott at Safety. All I know is there were times last year when Bates
clearly was playing not to get hurt. That will not be the case with these guys at Safety.

Agreed, there were those times.  In the big picture, I really can't blame him.  The team that spent a 2nd round draft pick on him, that he proved to be a worthy pick, was unable to pony up the 2nd contract that his abilities clearly said he was worth.  It hurts to not have his skills and experience on the team, but I'm also hopeful for the new guys being able to pick up the slack.  I just wish it weren't both Safety positions, as well as working a new CB into the mix.  (I'm not counting on Awuzie until he looks good in full game action)