Line of Communication- Mega QB’s

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-16-2023, 08:29 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Idk man, you're taking another team's situation and attempting to tie it to the Bengals, as if we should be weary that Joe B. might pull the same sort of stunt as Jackson.  It's a bit far fetched and to call it a reach for "Jungle Noise" is an understatement. Then, I see you in another thread alluding toward the idea that you might have some sort of inside info on a potential Jonah Williams trade.

After all that the elder members of this board have seen over the years, are you f***ing kidding me??

To me, requesting a trade and as soon as they signed Cody Ford, made Jonah expendable.

Not sure why people balking or whining about someone having insider info, it's not impossible. And seems like a good thing to me to learn how the players/coaches feel about each other and the organization.

EDIT: after looking it up, Jonah's message happened on same day, March 17, coincidentally same day we signed Ford.

[Soonerpeace]

(04-16-2023, 08:42 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If you paid attention you would know the Lamar Jackson contract is not a failure to communicate situation, Cool Hand. It’s a show me a NFL record amount of guaranteed money situation.

The recent addition of OBJ shows there was a disconnect. Mgt is scrambling to appease him. But yes the guaranteed money was too.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-16-2023, 08:56 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The recent addition of OBJ shows there was a disconnect. Mgt is scrambling to appease him. But yes the guaranteed money was too.

Did signing OBJ appease Lamar Jackson? No, because that isn’t the issue. Just like communication isn’t the issue. The guaranteed money is the issue.

[Soonerpeace]

(04-16-2023, 09:17 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Did signing OBJ appease Lamar Jackson? No, because that isn’t the issue. Just like communication isn’t the issue. The guaranteed money is the issue.

The guaranteed money was the issue. They are past that. It’s not happening. Hey I’m okay if you think the Ravens would go out and sign OBJ without it being a factor in negotiations.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-16-2023, 09:27 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The guaranteed money was the issue. They are past that. It’s not happening. Hey I’m okay if you think the Ravens would go out and sign OBJ without it being a factor in negotiations.

Obviously, they aren’t passed the issue of guaranteed money because the two sides haven’t signed a long term deal. And despite signing OBJ, Lamar Jackson remains unsigned. Thus far, signing OBJ has had zero affect Jackson signing a long term contract. If something has zero impact, how much of a factor could it be?

[Soonerpeace]

(04-16-2023, 10:32 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Obviously, they aren’t passed the issue of guaranteed money because the two sides haven’t signed a long term deal. And despite signing OBJ, Lamar Jackson remains unsigned. Thus far, signing OBJ has had zero affect Jackson signing a long term contract. If something has zero impact, how much of a factor could it be?

You can believe what you want. I think that signing OBJ will impact the signing. It’s obviously something that Lamar requested.
https://twitter.com/sgellison/status/1646966829250691074?s=46&t=oRdMuHpC2b0Xldr1TrExDA

Your welcome

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-16-2023, 10:42 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: You can believe what you want. I think that signing OBJ will impact the signing. It’s obviously something that Lamar requested.
https://twitter.com/sgellison/status/1646966829250691074?s=46&t=oRdMuHpC2b0Xldr1TrExDA

Your welcome

Looks like to me the Ravens have been trying to negotiate from a Position of power, but if LJ is making demands and they are fulfilling them, then it's the other way around and clearly they don't want to lose him.

Can't blame LJ, he's probably tired of having to run all the time cause his WR/TE are both covered.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-16-2023, 08:51 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: To me, requesting a trade and as soon as they signed Cody Ford, made Jonah expendable.

Not sure why people balking or whining about someone having insider info, it's not impossible. And seems like a good thing to me to learn how the players/coaches feel about each other and the organization.

EDIT: after looking it up, Jonah's message happened on same day, March 17, coincidentally same day we signed Ford.

I don't think Cody Ford makes ANYONE expendable.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-15-2023, 11:17 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Bateman was actually two drafts ago.  Neither Bateman or OBJ are great 1st or 2nd options.  ObJ, at one point, was (arguably) the best receiver I have ever seen. Injuries have seriously derailed him.  

I think OBJ will have sone moments, but I just don’t foresee consistency.

OBJ and Bateman don't have to be 1st option. That's Mark Andrews.
OBJ and Bateman can be fine 2nd and 3rd options.
Maybe Bateman needs to be the 2nd and OBJ the 3rd, but still fine I think.
Bateman averaged 47.5 YPG last year, which is just over 800 yards if he plays the full season. That's sufficient for a 2nd option in a run-oriented offense.
They can also draft a guy.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-15-2023, 11:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I wonder how much of that is a chicken and egg situation.

-They had Marquise Brown, but he demanded a trade and he put up 80.8 yards per game before getting hurt.
-They had Willie Snead who had 2 very good seasons with the Saints before some off-field stuff and then went to the Ravens and gradually vanished.
-They had Hayden Hurst and he put up his 3rd and 5th lowest totals of his 5 year career.
-They had John Brown (Lamar had him for half a year) but Brown put up 117 yards in 7 games with Lamar after 601 yards in 9 games with Flacco, and then went to Buffalo and put up 1,060 yards the next year.

I'm not saying they've had amazing options in the passing game with Lamar, they haven't. The Ravens seem to be terrible at drafting WRs... but I think some QBs elevate pass catchers, some QBs have pass catchers produce exactly as they are, and some QBs bring the pass catchers down. Lamar is in the third category.

Mahomes just put up 5,250 passing yards and won a SB and his top-3 WRs were Juju Smith-Schuster, Marquez Valdes-Scantling, and Justin Watson. I know Kelce is better than Andrews, but Lamar has never even thrown for 3,250, let alone 5,250....

Fair point.
It could be playcalling and/or QB that is resulting in the WRs not doing as well.

[Bengalbug]

(04-17-2023, 09:44 AM)ochocincos Wrote: OBJ and Bateman don't have to be 1st option. That's Mark Andrews.
OBJ and Bateman can be fine 2nd and 3rd options.
Maybe Bateman needs to be the 2nd and OBJ the 3rd, but still fine I think.
Bateman averaged 47.5 YPG last year, which is just over 800 yards if he plays the full season. That's sufficient for a 2nd option in a run-oriented offense.
They can also draft a guy.

I disagree.

Just look at the niners or eagles as run first team and then look at their weapons.

AJ brown - 88/1496/11
Devonta - 95/1196/7
Goedart - 55/702/3

Aiyuk - 78/1015/8
Kittle - 60/765/12
Deebo - 56/632/2 (playing through injuries and missed 4 games)

Andrews -73/847/9
OBJ - TBD
Bateman - TBD

———-

I just don’t see it. I also don’t think andrews is 2021 andrews, I believe that was an outlier. His average over 5 years is 67/862/6.8.

Andrews is NOT kelce. There has never been another kelce, not the the WR form.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-16-2023, 08:51 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: To me, requesting a trade and as soon as they signed Cody Ford, made Jonah expendable.

Not sure why people balking or whining about someone having insider info, it's not impossible. And seems like a good thing to me to learn how the players/coaches feel about each other and the organization.

EDIT: after looking it up, Jonah's message happened on same day, March 17, coincidentally same day we signed Ford.

I'm not saying that Jonah didn't ask for a trade, he did.  The team has been portraying that Williams is switching to RT.  Personally, I see the best opportunity for the team to get out from under the 5th year option guarantee, is by making an in-draft trade to a team that misses out on the 1st round Tackle that they're hoping for.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-17-2023, 09:58 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: I disagree.  

Just look at the niners or eagles as run first team and then look at their weapons.

AJ brown - 88/1496/11
Devonta - 95/1196/7
Goedart - 55/702/3

Aiyuk - 78/1015/8
Kittle - 60/765/12
Deebo - 56/632/2 (playing through injuries and missed 4 games)

Andrews -73/847/9
OBJ - TBD
Bateman - TBD

———-

I just don’t see it.  I also don’t think andrews is 2021 andrews, I believe that was an outlier.  His average over 5 years is 67/862/6.8.

Andrews is NOT kelce.  There has never been another kelce, not the the WR form.

If you don't feel like OBJ, Bateman, and Andrews are enough, you still have the 22nd pick of the draft to take another receiving threat.
I'm not sure trading for an almost-31-year-old Hopkins is the better move over drafting a guy.
OBJ is over 30 years old too, so they need someone younger who can be there more long-term.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-17-2023, 10:01 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not saying that Jonah didn't ask for a trade, he did.  The team has been portraying that Williams is switching to RT.  Personally, I see the best opportunity for the team to get out from under the 5th year option guarantee, is by making an in-draft trade to a team that misses out on the 1st round Tackle that they're hoping for.

I'm with you on that, unless he's told the coaches he will play RT. Then I'd keep him and give him that chance. If he can't do it, then trade him during the season next year. But we don't know the behind the scenes stuff so all we can go by is what is public.

[THE PISTONS]

(04-16-2023, 08:41 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’m saying the opposite that our line of communication is very good with Joe and don’t see us going down their paths.

I think Joe having input is good.

But, it's dangerous having players making personnel decisions. I've seen it blow up in sports and then the player leave.

I really like Tee, but I don't know that we can win a SB with Burrow, Tee, and Chase heavily paid. It's just going to hinder other parts of the roster. I think a player can't understand those team building/cap ramifications.

ie What are the odds that a 26 year old QB is capable of being a great GM?

[Soonerpeace]

(04-17-2023, 10:24 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think Joe having input is good.

But, it's dangerous having players making personnel decisions. I've seen it blow up in sports and then the player leave.

I really like Tee, but I don't know that we can win a SB with Burrow, Tee, and Chase heavily paid. It's just going to hinder other parts of the roster. I think a player can't understand those team building/cap ramifications.

ie What are the odds that a 26 year old QB is capable of being a great GM?

It’s a fine line how much input you give mega stars. But there’s a huge difference between communicating and acquiescence to them. And we don’t know you can’t win a SB with Joe/Tee/Chase. The numbers matter of course. KC didn’t know they could win w/o Tyreek Hill. If we’d had our entire OL ( KC was healthier) I like our chances. Are their fans then questioning letting him go? Funny how that works. That’d be 2 straight years of losing in the regular season and AFC Championship. Might they want to be following our model? Just saying?

[Bengalbug]

(04-17-2023, 09:44 AM)ochocincos Wrote: OBJ and Bateman don't have to be 1st option. That's Mark Andrews.
OBJ and Bateman can be fine 2nd and 3rd options.
Maybe Bateman needs to be the 2nd and OBJ the 3rd, but still fine I think.
Bateman averaged 47.5 YPG last year, which is just over 800 yards if he plays the full season. That's sufficient for a 2nd option in a run-oriented offense.
They can also draft a guy.

I disagree.

Just look at the niners or eagles as run first team and then look at their weapons.

AJ brown - 88/1496/11
Devonta - 95/1196/7
Goedart - 55/702/3

Aiyuk - 78/1015/8
Kittle - 60/765/12
Deebo - 56/632/2 (playing through injuries and missed 4 games)

Andrews -73/847/9
OBJ - TBD
Bateman - TBD

———-

I just don’t see it. I also don’t think andrews is 2021 andrews, I believe that was an outlier. His average over 5 years is 67/862/6.8.

Andrews is NOT kelce. There has never been another kelce, not the the WR form.

[grampahol]

I can appreciate Burrows influence in who gets signed and who doesn't, but long ago I realized it's primarily business and who's bringing the money to the table first and foremost. I'm sure the Bengals want to keep Joe and for him to be in Cincinnati, but the dollars and cents still have to align with the stars. Otherwise it's us, the fans all sitting around in one big kumbya session and someone going elsewhere for the money then our kumbya turns into one big complaint department saying how terrible the team is for not signing X.. 
Never forget the money talks and the BS walks.. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-17-2023, 10:24 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think Joe having input is good.

But, it's dangerous having players making personnel decisions. I've seen it blow up in sports and then the player leave.

I really like Tee, but I don't know that we can win a SB with Burrow, Tee, and Chase heavily paid. It's just going to hinder other parts of the roster. I think a player can't understand those team building/cap ramifications.

ie What are the odds that a 26 year old QB is capable of being a great GM?

Joe doesn't give the diva vibes like some of the other qb's do.

Asking him about players is a no harm no foul the way i look at it. Makes him feel like his opinion is important (and it is to an extent). We won't always be able to do what joe wants, but we will at least listen. Right now, he should be quite happy with the work the FO has been putting in so far. Building that OL to protect him. Injuries derailed us last year, but that's not something that you can predict, especially when it's 60% of your OL in the last few weeks of the season. 

[depthchart]

(04-17-2023, 10:24 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think Joe having input is good.

But, it's dangerous having players making personnel decisions. I've seen it blow up in sports and then the player leave.

I really like Tee, but I don't know that we can win a SB with Burrow, Tee, and Chase heavily paid. It's just going to hinder other parts of the roster. I think a player can't understand those team building/cap ramifications.

ie What are the odds that a 26 year old QB is capable of being a great GM?

.

It can be a tough situation when QBs have this much Power. Palmer just flat out decided that he wanted out.

Aaron Rodgers appears to react negatively to moves made by the Packers Front Office and that disconnect may be costing them Championships. Moves made by the Front Office (like QB Jordan Love in round 1) upset Rodgers but maybe Rodgers was upset before that move which led the Packers to make it. The two sides are not on the same page and tensions build.

I would lean towards having Burrow heavily involved but letting him know that he is not the final decision maker. Anything he wants to know about or say about bigger decisions being made down to Cap implications. A Partnership so to speak. He may have some Great ideas. I assume that he would be allowed to watch film on rookies and discuss say the top 3 tight ends in this year's draft with Zac and Duke. I think that he would respect having this input and react much better during the times that he does not get exactly what he wants.