Line of Communication- Mega QB’s

[THE PISTONS]

(04-17-2023, 02:00 PM)depthchart Wrote: .

It can be a tough situation when QBs have this much Power. Palmer just flat out decided that he wanted out.

Aaron Rodgers appears to react negatively to moves made by the Packers Front Office and that disconnect may be costing them Championships. Moves made by the Front Office (like QB Jordan Love in round 1) upset Rodgers but maybe Rodgers was upset before that move which led the Packers to make it. The two sides are not on the same page and tensions build.

I would lean towards having Burrow heavily involved but letting him know that he is not the final decision maker. Anything he wants to know about or say about bigger decisions being made down to Cap implications. A Partnership so to speak. He may have some Great ideas. I assume that he would be allowed to watch film on rookies and discuss say the top 3 tight ends in this year's draft with Zac and Duke. I think that he would respect having this input and react much better during the times that he does not get exactly what he wants.

Yes. Some examples I can think of were in the NBA. A team hired the players coach. Brought in his friends. Then, the player left as a free agent when it didn't win.

[THE PISTONS]

(04-17-2023, 11:19 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: It’s a fine line how much input you give mega stars. But there’s a huge difference between communicating and acquiescence to them. And we don’t know you can’t win a SB with Joe/Tee/Chase. The numbers matter of course. KC didn’t know they could win w/o Tyreek Hill. If we’d had our entire OL ( KC was healthier) I like our chances. Are their fans then questioning letting him go? Funny how that works. That’d be 2 straight years of losing in the regular season and AFC Championship. Might they want to be following our model? Just saying?

So basically, the Bengals are going to have to do more with less to win with those 3 on large contracts.

So this past roster, take about 6-8 quality players off of it and replace them with guys on rookie contracts. What happens? The roster gets worse.

It's going to be a lot harder to win a SB with that.

That said, having an actual good offensive line could offset that and improve the team. You also might play guys on rookie deals and find out that they perform well.

I'd be shocked if Burrow doesn't win a SB at some point. That said, I think the Rams SB was there for the taking and hope that wasn't the shot.

[depthchart]

(04-17-2023, 02:42 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes. Some examples I can think of were in the NBA. A team hired the players coach. Brought in his friends. Then, the player left as a free agent when it didn't win.

.

NBA Rosters are small and Burrow will likely have to limit his input to the Offensive side of the Football more often than not.

That said, he could take resources from the Defense towards the Offense with his input.

I expect that Burrow would be very reasonable to work with and should mesh well with the personalities of Zac & Duke.

Bengals gotta walk a tight rope here to keep Burrow happy.  IMO

NBA Star egos versus say Aaron Rodgers ego. That is something to think about. 

Rodgers seems to get his way at times but no where near NBA Star levels.  They can easily wreck a Team and move on as you say.

The Jets are trying to roll out the Red Carpet for Rodgers, so NFL QBs may be catching up a slight bit in this area.

Hope Rodgers wrecks the Jets.  

[THE PISTONS]

(04-17-2023, 03:07 PM)depthchart Wrote: .

NBA Rosters are small and Burrow will likely have to limit his input to the Offensive side of the Football more often than not.

That said, he could take resources from the Defense towards the Offense with his input.

I expect that Burrow would be very reasonable to work with and should mesh well with the personalities of Zac & Duke.

Bengals gotta walk a tight rope here to keep Burrow happy.  IMO

NBA Star egos versus say Aaron Rodgers ego. That is something to think about. 

Rodgers seems to get his way at times but no where near NBA Star levels.  They can easily wreck a Team and move on as you say.

The Jets are trying to roll out the Red Carpet for Rodgers, so NFL QBs may be catching up a slight bit in this area.

Hope Rodgers wrecks the Jets.  

The Bengals won't give Burrow that amount of power. Not at this stage atleast.

[Soonerpeace]

(04-17-2023, 02:45 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So basically, the Bengals are going to have to do more with less to win with those 3 on large contracts.

So this past roster, take about 6-8 quality players off of it and replace them with guys on rookie contracts. What happens? The roster gets worse.

It's going to be a lot harder to win a SB with that.

That said, having an actual good offensive line could offset that and improve the team. You also might play guys on rookie deals and find out that they perform well.

I'd be shocked if Burrow doesn't win a SB at some point. That said, I think the Rams SB was there for the taking and hope that wasn't the shot.

Well like I said it depends on the dollars and it doesn’t rule out succeeding. My opinion is you need to draft well first then attract Hayden Hursts on one year prove it deals. But I think it’s going to come down to the OL vs WR position. KC and Cincy aren’t dissimilar. They are reaping benefits of stellar OL play on rookie contracts and Cincy on WR. They just signed Jewan Taylor for 4 years 80 million and Creed and Smith? How much will they cost them? I’d imagine both around 15 million each.So they’ve got their own issues looming. Our OL was ravaged with injuries in the AFC title game. They were healthier. I think this board overrates KC and underrates us.

[THE PISTONS]

(04-17-2023, 03:27 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Well like I said it depends on the dollars and it doesn’t rule out succeeding. My opinion is you need to draft well first then attract Hayden Hursts on one year prove it deals. But I think it’s going to come down to the OL vs WR position. KC and Cincy aren’t dissimilar. They are reaping benefits of stellar OL play on rookie contracts and Cincy on WR. They just signed Jewan Taylor for 4 years 80 million and Creed and Smith? How much will they cost them? I’d imagine both around 15 million each.So they’ve got their own issues looming. Our OL was ravaged with injuries in the AFC title game. They were healthier. I think this board overrates KC and underrates us.

I think here, it's going to come down to finding guys on defense.

They're going to protect Burrow. He's going to have Higgins and Chase. Then you get TE and RB's on the cheap. With a good line, the RB's can succeed.

On defense, they'll probably invest in DE's and moderately in LB and 1 CB spot. Then, the rest will be rookie deals.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-16-2023, 10:42 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: You can believe what you want. I think that signing OBJ will impact the signing. It’s obviously something that Lamar requested.
https://twitter.com/sgellison/status/1646966829250691074?s=46&t=oRdMuHpC2b0Xldr1TrExDA

Your welcome

LOL

First, you suggested the Ravens have failed to sign Lamar Jackson to a long term deal due to a lack of communication.

Now, you’re suggesting the Ravens may sign Jackson due to a lack of a lack of communication because of their ongoing conversations.

And in between those two suggestions, you admitted the money was a problem.

Jackson wants more than $230M fully guaranteed. He has turned down over $130M fully guaranteed. They have a $100M gulf in guaranteed money to bridge to reach an agreement.

Show me the NFL player who has taken a home town discount of $100M guaranteed because the boss decided to overpay a co-worker for one year.

[Soonerpeace]

(04-17-2023, 04:22 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: LOL

First, you suggested the Ravens have failed to sign Lamar Jackson to a long term deal due to a lack of communication.

Now, you’re suggesting the Ravens may sign Jackson due to a lack of a lack of communication because of their ongoing conversations.

And in between those two suggestions, you admitted the money was a problem.

Jackson wants more than $230M fully guaranteed. He has turned down over $130M fully guaranteed. They have a $100M gulf in guaranteed money to bridge to reach an agreement.

Show me the NFL player who has taken a home town discount of $100M guaranteed because the boss decided to overpay a co-worker for one year.

LMAO I’ve never said money and the guaranteed part wasn’t a factor pea brains know that. Reading comprehension and focus is a must. I’ve said that the late signing of OBJ shows a disconnect in the process on the part of their FO. If you’ve really been following the Raven FO looks bad today with the Hurts signing.

[Soonerpeace]

(04-17-2023, 04:18 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think here, it's going to come down to finding guys on defense.

They're going to protect Burrow. He's going to have Higgins and Chase. Then you get TE and RB's on the cheap. With a good line, the RB's can succeed.

On defense, they'll probably invest in DE's and moderately in LB and 1 CB spot. Then, the rest will be rookie deals.

Agreed 100%

[THE PISTONS]

(04-17-2023, 04:22 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: LOL

First, you suggested the Ravens have failed to sign Lamar Jackson to a long term deal due to a lack of communication.

Now, you’re suggesting the Ravens may sign Jackson due to a lack of a lack of communication because of their ongoing conversations.

And in between those two suggestions, you admitted the money was a problem.

Jackson wants more than $230M fully guaranteed. He has turned down over $130M fully guaranteed. They have a $100M gulf in guaranteed money to bridge to reach an agreement.

Show me the NFL player who has taken a home town discount of $100M guaranteed because the boss decided to overpay a co-worker for one year.

Well, I think when Lamar demanded a trade that he thought atleast 1 team would show interest in him. The Colts, Falcons, Patriots, Panthers, etc. But, not 1 did.

So he's kind of stuck. So he likely had to make up with the Ravens.

That said, he's a talent, but you have to run an antiquated college offense to utilize them.

The real question is why he Lamar wanted a WR who hasn't had a 1000 yard season since 2019. And a 1300 yard season since 2016.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-17-2023, 04:32 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: LMAO I’ve never said money and the guaranteed part wasn’t a factor pea brains know that. Reading comprehension and focus is a must. I’ve said that the late signing of OBJ shows a disconnect in the process on the part of their FO. If you’ve really been following the Raven FO looks bad today with the Hurts signing.

You think the Ravens look bad because they offered $21M more in guaranteed money to Jackson than the Eagles offered Hurts and Jackson refused? LOL

The Ravens only look bad if you think Jackson is worth more than $230M guaranteed. Do you think he is worth that much?

The Ravens and Jackson have been negotiating for over a year. The communication is not the issue. Signing OBJ four weeks into free agency isn’t a sign of a disconnect. The single most important matter holding up a deal is the guaranteed money. Period. Everything else are just distractions.

If the Bengals offer Burrow $100M guaranteed less than what he believes he is worth, then I can almost guarantee “communication” problems in Cincinnati, too. Because that’s a salary problem, not a communication problem. And I doubt it helps that Jackson is serving as his own agent during the negotiations.

[Bengal Dude]

(04-17-2023, 03:03 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I don't think Cody Ford makes ANYONE expendable.

Agreed. Ford signed a 1 year minimum deal. That screams depth. 

[Soonerpeace]

And this is what Joe’s said about the line of communication “ “I didn’t go in and say, ‘Hey, I’d love to have Ja’Marr,'” Burrow said. “I think the organization did a really good job of making me feel like I was at least kept in the loop about the process. I was in here doing my rehab, and Duke would come down and talk to me, like, ‘Hey, watch this guy. Tell me what you think. Hey, we’re meeting with this guy. I’ll let you know how the meeting goes.’

“As quarterbacks across the league, you see some guys getting frustrated. I think all we want is to have a line of communication in those processes. For me personally, I don’t need to feel like I made the decision. You could go with my opinion or go without my opinion. Doesn’t matter to me as long as I feel like I’m involved in the process, and I think the organization did a great job of that.” From the Athletic 2-8-22

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-19-2023, 12:59 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Agreed. Ford signed a 1 year minimum deal. That screams depth. 

And opportunity. 
Many OL don't usually come into their own until their 3rd year (exceptions being top guys in the class). 
He's young and hungry and that's what you want. There's not any high expectations on him right now. 

I'm not saying he's going to come in and be the next big Willie, or anything, but he will be a good quality reserve that can step in when needed.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-19-2023, 12:59 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Agreed. Ford signed a 1 year minimum deal. That screams depth. 

(04-19-2023, 11:14 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: And opportunity. 
Many OL don't usually come into their own until their 3rd year (exceptions being top guys in the class). 
He's young and hungry and that's what you want. There's not any high expectations on him right now. 

I'm not saying he's going to come in and be the next big Willie, or anything, but he will be a good quality reserve that can step in when needed.

Is this another Bobby Hart type of situation taking shape?

[THE PISTONS]

(04-18-2023, 07:20 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You think the Ravens look bad because they offered $21M more in guaranteed money to Jackson than the Eagles offered Hurts and Jackson refused?  LOL

The Ravens only look bad if you think Jackson is worth more than $230M guaranteed. Do you think he is worth that much?

The Ravens and Jackson have been negotiating for over a year. The communication is not the issue. Signing OBJ four weeks into free agency isn’t a sign of a disconnect. The single most important matter holding up a deal is the guaranteed money. Period. Everything else are just distractions.

If the Bengals offer Burrow $100M guaranteed less than what he believes he is worth, then I can almost guarantee “communication” problems in Cincinnati, too. Because that’s a salary problem, not a communication problem. And I doubt it helps that Jackson is serving as his own agent during the negotiations.

It's a tough situation.

Like say Franchise QB A wants $60 million a year and is willing to hold out. The Teams offense is built around him. He can threaten to hold out. Other teams may be interested in him.

Where Lamar's situation failed is no other teams made a play for him.

IF Burrow was in that situation, a bunch of teams would want him. Like Burrow could say he wants $65 million a year, and likely multiple teams would do it.

The other side of these guarantees, is how much is enough? With a $230 million guarantee, the contract may as well be fully guaranteed because they won't waive him and take that cap hit.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-19-2023, 12:38 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's a tough situation.

Like say Franchise QB A wants $60 million a year and is willing to hold out. The Teams offense is built around him. He can threaten to hold out. Other teams may be interested in him.

Where Lamar's situation failed is no other teams made a play for him.

IF Burrow was in that situation, a bunch of teams would want him. Like Burrow could say he wants $65 million a year, and likely multiple teams would do it.

The other side of these guarantees, is how much is enough? With a $230 million guarantee, the contract may as well be fully guaranteed because they won't waive him and take that cap hit.

I agree it is a tough situation. I think the Ravens have made a fair offer that can also protect them from overpaying long term.

I think Jackson has overvalued his worth based upon Cleveland overpaying for Watson. It’s further complicated by Jackson serving as his own agent and is without the counsel and experience of a professional sports agent.

That’s why, in my opinion, this is strictly a financial standoff and doesn’t have anything to do with a lack of communication and why overpaying for a WR for one season won’t have the impact some think it might.

It is as simple as “show me the money” despite how others might try overthink it. Classic Occam’s razor.

There are $100 million reasons why they haven’t reached an agreement and a lack of communication or OBJ ain’t one.

[Bengal Dude]

(04-19-2023, 12:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Is this another Bobby Hart type of situation taking shape?

That's been my fear. We don't draft an OT and then we get an uninspiring camp battle between Ford, Carmen, and possibly someone else.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-20-2023, 01:27 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: That's been my fear. We don't draft an OT and then we get an uninspiring camp battle between Ford, Carmen, and possibly someone else.

That's too funny.  I just read an article this morning, talking about how lean and in-shape that Carman is looking at OTA's.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

It is being reported Ravens and Jackson have agreed to 5 yr/$260M. It is amazing how an extra $100M+ improved their communication.