Is Zac Really Happy With Irv Smith & Drew Sample

[Frank Booth]

(04-19-2023, 08:11 PM)wanga Wrote: I thought you said pro bowls were a worthless evaluation of a player. 

That was part of his scouting report. Im just paraphrasing.

but I will say they hold a little more value to tight ends because those guys have actual stats you can see. What stats can you see with o-linemen? there's nothing on pro football reference..

[WrongVerb]

I pretty much figure everything that comes out of a team official's mouth within 2 weeks of the draft is disinformation. This falls into that category for me.

[Murdock2420]

I think the addition of Smith really does just open up the draft board completely. Don't have to take anything in round one specifically. With Smith here, as well as Sample and Wilcox they can take a TE day 2 or even day 3 and let him develop across the season. Love to see them get Whyle from UC, the kid just got better every single season as both a receiver and a blocker. There is still room to grow for him and a season in an NFL weight room learning the offense as a 3rd TE would be a huge benefit to him.

[TheFan]

(04-19-2023, 06:18 PM)jj22 Wrote: I just bolded where they said the same things I said about him...... Which they did. That's it.

So you chose willful ignorance. Got it. 

[TheFan]

(04-19-2023, 10:39 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I think the addition of Smith really does just open up the draft board completely. Don't have to take anything in round one specifically. With Smith here, as well as Sample and Wilcox they can take a TE day 2 or even day 3 and let him develop across the season. Love to see them get Whyle from UC, the kid just got better every single season as both a receiver and a blocker. There is still room to grow for him and a season in an NFL weight room learning the offense as a 3rd TE would be a huge benefit to him.

I like Whyle and think he could definitely be a productive player. That said, his production actually got worse each year instead of getting better. I don't think that was because of him though and more so the ineptitude of offense UC often times ran. 

[Murdock2420]

(04-19-2023, 11:36 PM)TheFan Wrote: I like Whyle and think he could definitely be a productive player. That said, his production actually got worse each year instead of getting better. I don't think that was because of him though and more so the ineptitude of offense UC often times ran. 

I was talking mainly about his skill set not as much the numbers. His blocking improved which is a very big factor for this team and his route running improved.

But I do agree, his numbers decline is more due to the offense just not being sharp versus something that he did as a player.

[Housh]

No but do you think he’s gonna say otherwise?

[jj22]

(04-19-2023, 10:51 PM)TheFan Wrote: So you chose willful ignorance. Got it. 

I mean you posted their opinion backing me up. I didn't. I just said he was slow, unathletic, and struggled to separate. You then said the experts disagreed, while proceeding to post where they said the exact same things. Which, I knew they would because I follow the draft and have been keeping a close eye on TE's. Are you mad I didn't elaborate? I'm struggling to understand your outrage.

[Weazzel80]

(04-18-2023, 09:00 PM)ah5 Wrote: Please stop the TE crap in the first... Grab a db or lineman and not waste it on someone getting 3 targets a game.

This is why I like Darnell Washington. Even if he's not getting the ball, he can dominate in run blocking and pass protection. 

[NUGDUKWE]

I would much rather wait until day 3 to draft a TE. But if Sam LaPorta is there in Rd 3 I wouldn't mind the pick.

[OSUfan]

(04-22-2023, 09:51 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I would much rather wait until day 3 to draft a TE. But if Sam LaPorta is there in Rd 3 I wouldn't mind the pick.

It would seem that you do not feel the TE carries any importance in the Bengals offense. The TE in this scheme must be able to block and be ready to produce when called upon in the passing game which often means contested catch situations. These are not area that LaPorta has shown strengths to this point in his game:

Quote:Overview

Highly targeted tight end whose playing style and physical abilities land somewhere between a connected (in-line or wing) and move tight end. LaPorta has the ability to threaten zone coverage and will make the basic catches. However, he lacks the desired elusiveness and ball skills to come away with the more challenging catches. LaPorta takes on run-blocking chores with inconsistent positioning but has the potential to improve with more work in that phase of the game. His catch production is splashy, but he appears to have average-starter potential at the next level.

 
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/sam-laporta/32004c41-5064-0235-3970-b5e5514839fc

[samhain]

If I knew Irv Smith was going to be available to play at least 15 games, I'd be absolutely fine with the guys they have. I'd draft another guy in the middle rounds to be a 2 or a 3, but that's about it.

The idea of getting one of the top guys in a stacked TE class is enticing, but I can't get over how little this offense actually uses one. They are still loaded at receiver. It's still highly unlikely that a TE will come into 2023 and be anything more than a 4th option at best. Maybe not even that.

if you're drafting one of these guys in the first because he can block, then that's kind of insane. You can get a TE who specializes in blocking much later.

At the end of the day, when we're talking about first and second round picks, I want to get players that are going to be on the field for the majority of the snaps. That makes it tough to want a running back or TE in the current offense. I might even consider taking a receiver if one I really liked fell. Joe can't become Aaron Rodgers when his prime hits, getting paid a gazillion dollars and making it impossible for the organization to pay the caliber of receivers we have now. You don't prevent that situation by drafting TEs and running backs. At some point, you need young, controllable receivers added to the mix to mitigate the loss when the current guys leave.

Unless you think you're getting Mark Andrews or Travis Kelce (caliber of player) to replace Tee, then you look to corner, DL, OL, or WR in 1. We will have needs at these spots sooner than we want to believe. Having controllable, high caliber young players at those spots will fix a lot of future headaches.

[*Synric*]

Brian Callahan said RB and TE who are receivers are very important in his offense because of the matchups created by Chase and Higgins. So I would start putting those middle of the field receivers higher on my board. Dalton Kincaid, Michael Mayer, Sam LaPorta, Josh Whyle, Dennis Allen. Then you have the could be's Washington, Strange, and Kraft.

[NUGDUKWE]

(04-22-2023, 10:36 AM)OSUfan Wrote: It would seem that you do not feel the TE carries any importance in the Bengals offense. The TE in this scheme must be able to block and be ready to produce when called upon in the passing game which often means contested catch situations. These are not area that LaPorta has shown strengths to this point in his game:

 
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/sam-laporta/32004c41-5064-0235-3970-b5e5514839fc

The blocking would be my concern. But I would think he has the potential to be an adequate blocker. I have watched limited highlights of LaPorta but I have liked what I saw. I trust goodberry's breakdown and he mentioned previously that LaPorta had bad QB play. So a lot of the "contested catches" he had were positioned badly to the point of not really having a chance. I'm inclined to believe that as Iowa had a terrible offense. 

[Soonerpeace]

Just my opinion but from watching the Bengals you can kinda see their vision. They have Smith and Sample on 1 year deals. They are in need of solving the TE position long term. No way they want to be a revolving door every year at that position. They like continuity. They also want to be less predictable by substituting Perine or Sample. As so many many draftniks are saying the TE class is the best in a decade. Don’t try categorize it as business as usual. There’s going to be at least 3 TE’s that make a long term impact for years for teams. The Bengals want to solve the TE spot and if that doesn’t work out maybe RB (Bijan) or RT. Possibly DT (Reader last year) or even CB. I’ve been steadfast I think they move up to guarantee they get someone who solves needs for a long time at a position

[casear2727]

(04-22-2023, 09:51 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I would much rather wait until day 3 to draft a TE. But if Sam LaPorta is there in Rd 3 I wouldn't mind the pick.

LaPorta would be a solid pick in Rd 2, Im very doubtful he makes it to us in Rd 3.

[Housh]

(04-19-2023, 02:06 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Mayer is the TE equivalent to Jonah Williams. Pro ready, very sound, but the high ceiling isnt there.

Solid when healthy, but will prob never make a pro bowl

You dont want to spend a 1st round pick on that

When the pick is #28 that’s a good pick.


You describe him as of being a solid day 1 do everything TE is a slight or something. If we are getting a starting caliber TE at 28 everyone in the front office will happily run to the podium to pick Michael Mayer imo.

Now I’m growing on Kincaid personally

[CJD]

I consider Irv Smith + Drew Sample to be approximately equivalent to Hayden Hurst + Mitchell Wilcox.

It could be upgraded, sure. But I don't think our offense relies on the TE for much.

[Bengalbug]

(04-19-2023, 03:53 PM)TheFan Wrote: It could be argued they have a much lower floor and may be out of the league in a couple years. All indicators point to Mayer being the most stable pick, at TE. If you can get a Gresham/Witten type player at pick 28 that's worth it imo. Again, I don't think we should pick him depending on who else is available but a solid TE for 5 years isn't the worst thing ever. 

You put Gresham and witten in the same sentence? Lol ?

I just can’t…

HOF vs not living up to first round pick

[TheFan]

(04-23-2023, 07:00 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: You put Gresham and witten in the same sentence? Lol ?

I just can’t…

HOF vs not living up to first round pick

In style of play they're fairly similar. Both more inline TEs who can block, catch, good athletes but not elite speed guys. Obviously Greshman didn't have the career Witten did but he's not as bad as some act. His first 3 years were very similar but then he started having injuries and wasn't able to improve/stay consistent like Witten. If Gresham stayed healthy and saw the volume Witten did who knows what his career would have been though. But our offense was always more WR based. 

In Wittens first 3 years he had 2100 yards, 13 touchdowns, and 2 PBs.

In Greshams first 3 years he had 1800 yards, 15 touchdowns, and 2 PBs. 

If we get either of those first 3 seasons we are feeling good about that at pick 28.