Bill Barnwell suggests trade partner for Jonah Williams

[*ochocincos*]

Bill Barnwell of ESPN released a mock draft that involves a trade for every team.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/story/_/id/36173214/2023-nfl-mock-draft-all-trades-deals-all-31-round-1-picks-aaron-rodgers-lamar-jackson-aaron-donald

In this mock, he specifically discusses an idea for a trade involving Jonah Williams.

Quote:Bengals get: 1-19, 3-82
Buccaneers get: 1-28, 3-92, OT Jonah Williams

This deal values Williams as being worth something close to the 65th pick in a typical draft, which feels right given his play a year ago and how much time is left on his deal.

So essentially, Bengals offload Jonah while getting to move up 9 spots in Rd 1 and 10 spots in Rd 3. No additional picks.

What are your thoughts on this potential idea for draft compensation?
About right?
Not enough?
Too much?

[leonardfan40]

That’s one I’d wait until pick 19 rolls around to make. If there is a guy there we really want, then it’s worthwhile and we move his salary off the books. I wouldn’t make that deal just to make it though.

Generally I’d prefer to add an extra day 2 pick over just moving up a few slots. The more players on rookie deals the better chance we’ll have at getting our stars locked up long term.

[SunsetBengal]

To answer the OP's question, to me that looks about right, so long as the Bengals aren't stuck picking up 2/3 of his salary. (like the Rams on the A. Robinson trade to Steelers)

[*ochocincos*]

(04-19-2023, 11:51 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: To answer the OP's question, to me that looks about right, so long as the Bengals aren't stuck picking up 2/3 of his salary. (like the Rams on the A. Robinson trade to Steelers)

The AR trade almost doesn't even make sense to me from the Rams perspective.
Like basically the Steelers got a starting caliber WR for 1 year for $5 mill, and they have $0 dead money next year if they choose to move on instead of paying him $15.75 mill.
All that to essentially save just $5 mill for the Rams? The swapping of 7th rounders is basically worthless.

[BenZoo2]

It feels about right. But I agree with Leonard’s take. If there’s someone they love at 19 then sure. I think I’d rather have an extra pick though


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[*ochocincos*]

(04-19-2023, 11:37 AM)leonardfan40 Wrote: That’s one I’d wait until pick 19 rolls around to make. If there is a guy there we really want, then it’s worthwhile and we move his salary off the books. I wouldn’t make that deal just to make it though.

Generally I’d prefer to add an extra day 2 pick over just moving up a few slots. The more players on rookie deals the better chance we’ll have at getting our stars locked up long term.

(04-19-2023, 12:30 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: It feels about right.  But I agree with Leonard’s take.  If there’s someone they love at 19 then sure.  I think I’d rather have an extra pick though


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FWIW, TB has Pick 50 in Rd 2 and Pick 82 in Rd 3. They do not have a 4th rounder.
I too would prefer an extra pick, but is Pick 82 enough? Is Pick 50 too much?
TB has 2 picks in Rd 5 (1 is a comp pick) and 3 picks in Rd 6 that might be able to be added to Pick 82 to sweeten the deal.

[Whatever]

(04-19-2023, 12:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The AR trade almost doesn't even make sense to me from the Rams perspective.
Like basically the Steelers got a starting caliber WR for 1 year for $5 mill, and they have $0 dead money next year if they choose to move on instead of paying him $15.75 mill.
All that to essentially save just $5 mill for the Rams? The swapping of 7th rounders is basically worthless.

Robinson is done.  He's missed 13 games, only has 749 receiving yards and 4 TD's, and his YPT has plummeted to less than 6.5 the past two years.  

[BenZoo2]

(04-19-2023, 12:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: FWIW, TB has Pick 50 in Rd 2 and Pick 82 in Rd 3. They do not have a 4th rounder.
I too would prefer an extra pick, but is Pick 82 enough? Is Pick 50 too much?
TB has 2 picks in Rd 5 (1 is a comp pick) and 3 picks in Rd 6 that might be able to be added to Pick 82 to sweeten the deal.

82 seems light, 50 feels like a bit much. I’d consider 82 and a fifth to get the cap space and move on from the distraction. Plus you’d have more picks for trade ammo if the opted to move around the board some.

If he’s pegging Jonah’s value around the 65th pick and that’s about where the bengals value him too, I don’t see them taking much, if anything less than that


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[Bengalholic]

(04-19-2023, 12:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: FWIW, TB has Pick 50 in Rd 2 and Pick 82 in Rd 3. They do not have a 4th rounder.
I too would prefer an extra pick, but is Pick 82 enough? Is Pick 50 too much?
TB has 2 picks in Rd 5 (1 is a comp pick) and 3 picks in Rd 6 that might be able to be added to Pick 82 to sweeten the deal.

The Bucs are in the same position with Devon White as we are with Jonah, both wanting to be traded and on 5th year options. They would have to find someone to trade for him and take on his 11.7m first.

[*Synric*]

The thing about trading up is not just the price but who your trading up to get. You could talk me into the Bucs passing on an Offensive Tackle to take Jonah and keep a first round pick but the most obvious position would be a tackle. Broderick Jones, Paris Johnson, Darnell Wright, Peter Skoronski. Jones hasn't been getting the buzz he was initially so maybe. Other than that who? Jalen Carter or Bijan Robinson?

[*ochocincos*]

(04-19-2023, 01:01 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: 82 seems light, 50 feels like a bit much.  I’d consider 82 and a fifth to get the cap space and move on from the distraction.  Plus you’d have more picks for trade ammo if the opted to move around the board some.

If he’s pegging Jonah’s value around the 65th pick and that’s about where the bengals value him too, I don’t see them taking much, if anything less than that


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True, but here's the problem with holding onto him.
If he sticks around this year and leaves next year, the best comp pick he can possibly return is the 97th pick in 2025.
Pick 82 and keep $12.6 mill (or some of it at least based on negotiation), or spend all that money for just this year and get a much lower comp pick two years from now (if any comp pick at all)?
I choose the former, but I know the Bengals have always put more value on their players than we sometimes do.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-19-2023, 01:02 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The Bucs are in the same position with Devon White as we are with Jonah, both wanting to be traded and on 5th year options. They would have to find someone to trade for him and take on his 11.7m first.

The difference being that Devon White has met all of the expectations of a 1st round draft pick.  62 starts in 4 seasons, fantastic stat lines, All-Pro once, Pro Bowl once (different year).  Unless Tampa is really greedy in what they would be asking for in return, I would think that several teams would be suitors for White.

[jj22]

I'd take it. We did trade up blindly when we swapped picks for...... I forgot Bills OT name that fast. But we have traded up not knowing who would be on the board before.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-19-2023, 01:18 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'd take it. We did trade up blindly when we swapped picks for...... I forgot Bills OT name that fast. But we have traded up not knowing who would be on the board before.

Cordy Glenn?
If that's who you meant, it was a trade-back (12th pick for Glenn and the 21st pick).
Bengals then traded back again when Ragnow went right before at Pick 20.

[jj22]

(04-19-2023, 01:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Cordy Glenn?
If that's who you meant, it was a trade-back (12th pick for Glenn and the 21st pick).
Bengals then traded back again when Ragnow went right before at Pick 20.

You right. It was a trade back... 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(04-19-2023, 11:34 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Bill Barnwell of ESPN released a mock draft that involves a trade for every team.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/story/_/id/36173214/2023-nfl-mock-draft-all-trades-deals-all-31-round-1-picks-aaron-rodgers-lamar-jackson-aaron-donald

In this mock, he specifically discusses an idea for a trade involving Jonah Williams.

So essentially, Bengals offload Jonah while getting to move up 9 spots in Rd 1 and 10 spots in Rd 3. No additional picks.

What are your thoughts on this potential idea for draft compensation?
About right?
Not enough?
Too much?

The only way that trade makes sense for us is to take a tackle at #19. Wright or B. Jones most likely. I don't think Jonah has much trade value, so I'd be OK with it on our end if that $12.6 mil is put to good use this year. Though I'd usually prefer getting an extra pick, the extra $$ serves the same purpose here. Heck, if we felt REALLY good about the OT we take at #19, we could release Collins as well, and have $20 mil more in space and $35 mil overall. IDK if there are FAs worth spending that on, or if we want to commit long term salary with our upcoming crunch. But 1 year deals for guys like Byard, Baker, Cook, etc would be realistic all of a sudden.

But it makes no sense for Tampa. They move down 10 spots in round 1 & 3, go no extra picks, and get an OT who is worse than a guy they could take at #19, more expensive than a #19 pick, coming off an injury, and can walk after this year to boot. 

[*ochocincos*]

(04-19-2023, 02:03 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: The only way that trade makes sense for us is to take a tackle at #19. Wright or B. Jones most likely. I don't think Jonah has much trade value, so I'd be OK with it on our end if that $12.6 mil is put to good use this year. Though I'd usually prefer getting an extra pick, the extra $$ serves the same purpose here. Heck, if we felt REALLY good about the OT we take at #19, we could release Collins as well, and have $20 mil more in space and $35 mil overall. IDK if there are FAs worth spending that on, or if we want to commit long term salary with our upcoming crunch. But 1 year deals for guys like Byard, Baker, Cook, etc would be realistic all of a sudden.

But it makes no sense for Tampa. They move down 10 spots in round 1 & 3, go no extra picks, and get an OT who is worse than a guy they could take at #19, more expensive than a #19 pick, coming off an injury, and can walk after this year to boot. 

Depends who is available at 19 for Tampa honestly.
They need a LT, not RT. If Broderick Jones, Paris Johnson, and Peter Skoronski are gone by 19, one could argue there isn't a LT who could be NFL-ready worthy to take at that point. They could then move back to get Jonah for this year and get someone like Anton Harrison to groom for a year before taking over the following year.

For Cincy, 19 could be a prime spot to get Darnell Wright, their choice in TE, a CB they really like, or Bijan Robinson.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(04-19-2023, 02:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Depends who is available at 19 for Tampa honestly.
They need a LT, not RT. If Broderick Jones, Paris Johnson, and Peter Skoronski are gone by 19, one could argue there isn't a LT who could be NFL-ready worthy to take at that point. They could then move back to get Jonah for this year and get someone like Anton Harrison to groom for a year before taking over the following year.

For Cincy, 19 could be a prime spot to get Darnell Wright, their choice in TE, a CB they really like, or Bijan Robinson.

True enough. The RT/LT point for Tampa is valid, and a good one. 

However, on our end, if we trade Jonah and don't get a plug & play OT, we just created an issue on the OL. I don't think we move UP to take Bijan or a #4 corner (Banks, Forbes) or a pass rusher. The CB class is pretty deep, as are DE & TE. Maybe Kancey or Forbes, but each has size issues that make every down play problematic. And either could still be there at #28. 

For me, that's why trading Jonah to move up only makes sense if we take a tackle with the pick. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-19-2023, 11:34 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Bill Barnwell of ESPN released a mock draft that involves a trade for every team.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/story/_/id/36173214/2023-nfl-mock-draft-all-trades-deals-all-31-round-1-picks-aaron-rodgers-lamar-jackson-aaron-donald

In this mock, he specifically discusses an idea for a trade involving Jonah Williams.

So essentially, Bengals offload Jonah while getting to move up 9 spots in Rd 1 and 10 spots in Rd 3. No additional picks.

What are your thoughts on this potential idea for draft compensation?
About right?
Not enough?
Too much?

Actually a realistic thought from an espn dude? I am shocked. Yeah, would like this if we are eyeing a guy right there.

Gives us some flexibility if we really like a player that fits our team.

Still would like to add a pick for Jonah, but I would understand this move if we really like a guy and he is still around at 19.

(04-19-2023, 11:37 AM)leonardfan40 Wrote: That’s one I’d wait until pick 19 rolls around to make. If there is a guy there we really want, then it’s worthwhile and we move his salary off the books. I wouldn’t make that deal just to make it though.

Generally I’d prefer to add an extra day 2 pick over just moving up a few slots. The more players on rookie deals the better chance we’ll have at getting our stars locked up long term.

Truth, spot on LF40. 

[Housh]

If that’s the deal on the table then I’d sit on it until pick 18. If Bijan is still there that may be our only shot to get him. I’m mocking Bijan to Lion, Ravens, Cowboys or Bills. All of those are before our pick. I am fairly confident that no other team needs Bijan. And if you are taking a RB in the 1st round then you NEED one. The Cowboys are mocked to prefer Gibbs which makes sense because he’s an immediate stand in for Pollard to get healthy and when you get Pollard back they have similar styles so you wouldn’t have to change your scheme for the back you have like they had to with Zeke. So I’m fairly confident Cowboys wouldn’t swoop in but you never know. I look at mocks and am getting growing hope that either Gibbs or Bijan will last. Too many teams need more valuable positions and i just can’t see a team who needs a LB or an OL picking a RB