Myles Murphy

[Jpoore]

(04-28-2023, 09:31 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You also wanted Tua or Jordan Love instead of Burrow because in your estimation Burrow didn’t have a single elite quality.

Remember proclaiming Will Hernandez not only the best OG in his draft class, but the best OL overall? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

I appreciate you marching to the beat of your own drummer, but some of your draft evaluations have been pretty bad.

I’m think in this case Imma trust the Bengals’ evaluation over yours.

Hernandez could be in the right offense…. And I still think the trade down would have been the right option(thought it’s hard to argue with the end results)

(04-28-2023, 10:10 AM)Stewy Wrote: So says the man, who didn't want Burrow.  You have zero credibility, so don't be surprised when no one listens, no one agrees, no one cares.

Trade down should have happened.

(04-28-2023, 10:46 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I feel that's a bit extreme.
I liked Rapien's and Liscow's take on LOB podcast that Murphy's floor is Sam Hubbard. That feels about right. Someone who would get 6-8 sacks a season typically and be a good run defender. His ceiling is double-digit sacks, but it's going to be hard to get that if he's playing in a rotation. We might not get to see the finished product until 2025 when Hendrickson (and Ossai) no longer a Bengal.

As for Adebawore, I feel like he's more project and risk than Murphy.

Career production:
Adebawore (36 games) - 97 tackles, 24.5 TFL, 12.5 sacks, 1 INT, 6 PD, 4 FF
Murphy (35 games) - 116 tackles, 36.0 TFL, 18.5 sacks, 0 INT, 5 PD, 6 FF

If you're talking about who had the better resume, it's Murphy.

Also, you can't really say Adebawore starts next year, as Hill is still a Bengal in 2024. Adebawore isn't taking Reader's spot.

As for Porter, he's not the kind of CB that fits the Bengals scheme.

Porter fits any scheme but yes he’s more presss heavy corner.adebawore immediately comes in and plays 600 snaps. You don’t draft Hubbard in rd1 that’s my issue. His pass rush win rate was 14% last year. His pff grade was 79. He’s a project just like the rest.

(04-28-2023, 12:10 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: And that’s why your not a nfl gm. Or work in an nfl front office. And got your scouting certificate from a cracker jacks box.

Your draft takes and player evaluations are bad and should stop posting them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My draft evaluations hit more often than not.

(04-28-2023, 04:53 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Murphy is an elite athlete and defender who slipped to 28 after being projected in the top 15 pretty consistently.

Elite athlete. Not a great player currently. 14% pass rush win rate, 79 pff grade

(04-28-2023, 05:06 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: This guy was swallowing Loves juices before the Burrow draft. Love has only started like 2 games in 3 years. You’d think that if Love was so talented, GB would have moved in from Rodgers at least a year ago and started Loves career. Instead? He HAS TO start because Rodgers wasn’t going to play for GB anymore.

Plus, he touts ISU players like they should always go in the top 10 every year. All of them.

Remind me how many years Rodgers sat behind favre? Was it 3? Yeah? Also who is isu? U mean osu? Yeah because the college with the most nfl players in the league I don’t want. Criminal.

(04-28-2023, 05:29 PM)JumboTron Wrote: Well that about sums it up.

End thread.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-05-2023, 06:43 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Hernandez could be in the right offense…. And I still think the trade down would have been the right option(thought it’s hard to argue with the end results)
Trade down should have happened.
Porter fits any scheme but yes he’s more presss heavy corner.adebawore immediately comes in and plays 600 snaps. You don’t draft Hubbard in rd1 that’s my issue. His pass rush win rate was 14% last year.  His pff grade was 79. He’s a project just like the rest.
My draft evaluations hit more often than not.
Elite athlete. Not a great player currently. 14% pass rush win rate, 79 pff grade
Remind me how many years Rodgers sat behind favre? Was it 3? Yeah?  Also who is isu? U mean osu? Yeah because the college with the most nfl players in the league I don’t want. Criminal.

The draft is over, son.  Time to start working on next year's..

[*ochocincos*]

(05-05-2023, 06:43 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Hernandez could be in the right offense…. And I still think the trade down would have been the right option(thought it’s hard to argue with the end results)
Trade down should have happened.
Porter fits any scheme but yes he’s more presss heavy corner.adebawore immediately comes in and plays 600 snaps. You don’t draft Hubbard in rd1 that’s my issue. His pass rush win rate was 14% last year.  His pff grade was 79. He’s a project just like the rest.
My draft evaluations hit more often than not.
Elite athlete. Not a great player currently. 14% pass rush win rate, 79 pff grade
Remind me how many years Rodgers sat behind favre? Was it 3? Yeah?  Also who is isu? U mean osu? Yeah because the college with the most nfl players in the league I don’t want. Criminal.

That's typically the gripe with some draft picks.
Do you draft for production, or do you draft for potential?
Often when picking in the later part of rounds, you start seeing teams gamble more on the potential.

With that said, back leading up to the 2018 draft, many analysts had Hubbard projected as a 2nd round pick. Some, like Lance Zierlein, actually had him project as a late 1st to early 2nd rounder.
I think it's fair to say that Hubbard was safely a 2nd rounder projection-wise, and he's produced like one. He's consistently good, but not elite.
Now take the fact that Murphy is ahead of Hubbard when it comes to athleticism, it makes sense that someone would gamble the 28th pick on him.
At worst, you're getting a consistent 2nd rounder type guy, but you might end up getting a double-digit sack guy if he can turn some of that potential into more production.

Looking at the other guys available at the spot, I dunno who else really was more worthy of the 28th pick.
There was no OT worth it.
Murphy's athletic ceiling plus playing a premium position was probably better value than taking one of the available TEs (even though I thought Bengals would take one at 28 based on how board fell).
Nolan Smith was even more projection than proven production than Murphy.
Murphy I think was a better, safer selection than someone like Bresee, who had no more than 4.0 sacks in a season.

[BenZoo2]

(05-05-2023, 06:43 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Hernandez could be in the right offense…. And I still think the trade down would have been the right option(thought it’s hard to argue with the end results)
Trade down should have happened.
Porter fits any scheme but yes he’s more presss heavy corner.adebawore immediately comes in and plays 600 snaps. You don’t draft Hubbard in rd1 that’s my issue. His pass rush win rate was 14% last year. His pff grade was 79. He’s a project just like the rest.
My draft evaluations hit more often than not.
Elite athlete. Not a great player currently. 14% pass rush win rate, 79 pff grade
Remind me how many years Rodgers sat behind favre? Was it 3? Yeah? Also who is isu? U mean osu? Yeah because the college with the most nfl players in the league I don’t want. Criminal.

Not from what I can tell based on what you post here. Seems you are fantasticly wrong most of the time.

Post one evaluation the you put up one here that “hit”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Yogo]

In my history on these forums, I've had some hits and a lot of misses. Go look them up.

Hits:
DE in the 1st this draft. Yay!
Lael Collins if he wasn't injured.
No John Ross III
G in 2012 draft, Decastro > Zeitler
Same draft DB Janoris Jenkins > Dre Kirkpatrick

Misses:
Chase Young over Burrow, snag a falling Tua later.
Pinei Sewell, Kyle Pitts over Jamarr Chase.
Wanting Devin Bush LB

The great thing about this forum community is that we can play speculative GM vs. Duke and the gang. To have a place to test where we stand as evaluators. I am glad that I've been really wrong in the Zac tenure. Like franchise altering wrong. Just be prepared to eat crow, crow these days are mighty tasty for me. Keep up the contributions Jpoore, we'll see in 2-3 years.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-07-2023, 06:44 PM)Yogo Wrote: In my history on these forums, I've had some hits and a lot of misses.  Go look them up.

Hits:
DE in the 1st this draft.  Yay!
Lael Collins if he wasn't injured.
No John Ross III
G in 2012 draft, Decastro > Zeitler
Same draft DB Janoris Jenkins > Dre Kirkpatrick

Misses:
Chase Young over Burrow, snag a falling Tua later.
Pinei Sewell, Kyle Pitts over Jamarr Chase.
Wanting Devin Bush LB

The great thing about this forum community is that we can play speculative GM vs. Duke and the gang.  To have a place to test where we stand as evaluators.  I am glad that I've been really wrong in the Zac tenure.  Like franchise altering wrong.  Just be prepared to eat crow, crow these days are mighty tasty for me.  Keep up the contributions Jpoore, we'll see in 2-3 years.

I dunno, I think all three are pretty damn good.
Sewell only allowed 2 sacks this past season and played every game, getting to the Pro Bowl.
Pitts showed in 2021 what he can do if used properly, putting up over 1000 yards at 15.1 YPR.
His career YPC after 2 years is 14.4, which is better than a lot of WRs.
Pitts can be that guy if used more/better in the passing game.

[depthchart]

(05-08-2023, 02:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I dunno, I think all three are pretty damn good.
Sewell only allowed 2 sacks this past season and played every game, getting to the Pro Bowl.
Pitts showed in 2021 what he can do if used properly, putting up over 1000 yards at 15.1 YPR.
His career YPC after 2 years is 14.4, which is better than a lot of WRs.
Pitts can be that guy if used more/better in the passing game.

.

If I remember right, Offensive Line was what a lot of Bengals Fans and Mock Drafts expected the Bengals to take and Penei Sewell was projected to end up being a Bengal by tons of people. Sewell went 7th to Detroit and Chase went 5th to the Bengals.

Chase exploded onto the NFL scene and I heard one Detroit fan on television complaining after that season that they took boring O-line while the Bengals took the flashy wide receiver and were having success while Detroit was going 3 - 13 and 1.  They were wishing that their Team would have got the chance to get Chase. 

I believe it was Jalen Rose (a Detroit fan) on his show called Jalen and Jacoby that was saying it.

They may be liking Sewell a lot more now since their Team is doing better and Sewell is playing well.

[Yogo]

Seems like Chase was what our team needed more than Sewell or Pitts to jumpstart our Championship run. He was the perfect fit. I was die-hard Team Sewell as the safest longevity pick for Joe's sake.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-08-2023, 03:08 PM)depthchart Wrote: .

If I remember right, Offensive Line was what a lot of Bengals Fans and Mock Drafts expected the Bengals to take and Penei Sewell was projected to end up being a Bengal by tons of people. Sewell went 7th to Detroit and Chase went 5th to the Bengals.

Chase exploded onto the NFL scene and I heard one Detroit fan on television complaining after that season that they took boring O-line while the Bengals took the flashy wide receiver and were having success while Detroit was going 3 - 13 and 1.  They were wishing that their Team would have got the chance to get Chase. 

I believe it was Jalen Rose (a Detroit fan) on his show called Jalen and Jacoby that was saying it.

They may be liking Sewell a lot more now since their Team is doing better and Sewell is playing well.

Yea now that the Lions have the OL pretty solid (PFF has their OL ranked 3rd in league), they can now start focusing on weapons.

Back in 2021, they didn't really have any true outside threats.
They had rookie Amon-Ra St. Brown in the slot and also TJ Hockenson, but no real outside WRs.

Then last year, they added Jameson Williams, but he was injured before the season even started. They also had DJ Chark, who was a fine 2nd or 3rd option in the passing game. But they still lacked some firepower to really have a good offense, as Jared Goff isn't an upper-echelon guy. He needs weapons.

But now this year to go along with Williams (after 6-game suspension), Marvin Jones back to cover the outside, and St. Brown in the slot, they got Sam LaPorta and Jahmyr Gibbs in the draft.
Maybe this is the year we finally see the Lions break that playoff win drought.

[Murdock2420]

(05-08-2023, 03:33 PM)Yogo Wrote: Seems like Chase was what our team needed more than Sewell or Pitts to jumpstart our Championship run.  He was the perfect fit.  I was die-hard Team Sewell as the safest longevity pick for Joe's sake.

What the team needed was Burrow to be healthy.

Guy went through the rookie stuggles that pretty much every QB does (look at Manning year 1) then came back year 2 and stayed healthy and took this team to the Super Bowl.

While Chase helps, a healthy Burrow succeeds with anyone out there at WR that isn't dropping the ball. The guy is elite and will elevate the play of anyone he is throwing the ball too.

Hell look at what he has done for the the two TE's that have left the team.

[depthchart]

(05-08-2023, 03:33 PM)Yogo Wrote: Seems like Chase was what our team needed more than Sewell or Pitts to jumpstart our Championship run.  He was the perfect fit.  I was die-hard Team Sewell as the safest longevity pick for Joe's sake.

.


Team Sewell was a very Large Team from what I remember versus drafting a wide receiver back then in part because the memory of the 

John Ross pick from 2017 at 9th overall left a bad taste in people's mouths.  2020 was John Ross's last year with the Bengals then Chase 

comes in 2021 at 5th overall. That last year with the Bengals, Ross played in 3 games recording only two receptions for 17 yards and zero TDs.

[DYT_Bengal]

I don't know what tape people are watching but Myles Murphy looks pretty damn good. Elite first step, very effective at running stunts, high motor, very effective at bull-rushing the tackle, active in the run game.

I think the reason why the advanced stats dipped were because he tried to beat the tackle on the outside too much which he didn't have the bend for - at the same time he also made some all-pro moves when he used his strength and athleticism to attack the inside.

I think this was a gift.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-10-2023, 02:16 AM)DYT_Bengal Wrote: I don't know what tape people are watching but Myles Murphy looks pretty damn good. Elite first step, very effective at running stunts, high motor, very effective at bull-rushing the tackle, active in the run game.

I think the reason why the advanced stats dipped were because he tried to beat the tackle on the outside too much which he didn't have the bend for - at the same time he also made some all-pro moves when he used his strength and athleticism to attack the inside.

I think this was a gift.

Yes, Murphy just wasn't able to quite get there as much as people would have liked.
Last year in 13 games, PFF credited Murphy with 6 sacks but 34 total pressures.

42 pressures in 2021, 20 pressures in 2020.

He's able to get pressure, just hasn't finished the job as much as people would have liked.

[XenoMorph]

(05-11-2023, 05:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yes, Murphy just wasn't able to quite get there as much as people would have liked.
Last year in 13 games, PFF credited Murphy with 6 sacks but 34 total pressures.

42 pressures in 2021, 20 pressures in 2020.

He's able to get pressure, just hasn't finished the job as much as people would have liked.

Pressure and disruption are good even if he doesnt get home all the time he will either be flushing the QB into someone else or forcing a throw on the move

[*ochocincos*]

(05-12-2023, 11:04 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Pressure and disruption are good even if he doesnt get home all the time he will either be flushing the QB into someone else or forcing a throw on the move

For sure, but actually getting those sacks is the cherry on top.
Remember how we debated keeping Lawson vs signing Hendrickson a couple years ago?
We looked at pressures, and Lawson was being argued just as good as Hendrickson, Hendrickson just got "lucky" to get the actual sacks.
Turns out, Hendrickson ended up being the better pass rusher after all.

[XenoMorph]

(05-12-2023, 02:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: For sure, but actually getting those sacks is the cherry on top.
Remember how we debated keeping Lawson vs signing Hendrickson a couple years ago?
We looked at pressures, and Lawson was being argued just as good as Hendrickson, Hendrickson just got "lucky" to get the actual sacks.
Turns out, Hendrickson ended up being the better pass rusher after all.

He did have 7 sacks last year but is he OLB for jets instead of a DE?

[*ochocincos*]

(05-12-2023, 02:32 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: He did have 7 sacks last year but is he OLB for jets instead of a DE?

From what I see online, Lawson is listed as DE.
But I haven't watched enough Jets games to know if they do a lot of 3-4 looks that put Lawson at OLB often.

[Whatever]

(05-08-2023, 02:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I dunno, I think all three are pretty damn good.
Sewell only allowed 2 sacks this past season and played every game, getting to the Pro Bowl.
Pitts showed in 2021 what he can do if used properly, putting up over 1000 yards at 15.1 YPR.
His career YPC after 2 years is 14.4, which is better than a lot of WRs.
Pitts can be that guy if used more/better in the passing game.

Honestly, it would've been pretty hard to miss at #5 that year.  Micah Parsons would have been a great pick.  Slater would have been a great pick.  Waddle would have been a great pick.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-18-2023, 12:45 PM)Whatever Wrote: Honestly, it would've been pretty hard to miss at #5 that year.  Micah Parsons would have been a great pick.  Slater would have been a great pick.  Waddle would have been a great pick.  

Yeah, that was one heck of a draft full of freak talent in the first.