Grade The Draft

[Soonerpeace]

(05-13-2023, 01:17 PM)Nepa Wrote: Have we heard anything definitively that the Bengals didn't want DW? They may have thought they could pick up another 6th round pick for a punter, move down a few spots, and still get DW. Pittsburgh picking him up may have surprised them, since they didn't seem to be in he market for a TE after having used a high pick on one last year. Or, maybe they had a couple of players with about the same grade, including DW, and decided to trade down, pick up the 6th, and take the one who was left at their pick.

What made this draft exciting for the Zac’s staff & Tobin’s staff was they got their favorite people. They had some talent's they really liked that had good character but then they had some talent’s that had phenomenal character. About half of their picks had off the charts high character and leadership.

“It happened that the best players were also good people,” Tobin said. “That makes the decisions easier.”
Great article in the Athletic: https://theathletic.com/4486780/2023/05/04/bengals-draft-scouts-duke-tobin/?source=user_shared_article

Battle was one. Saban on Battle:
“Well Jordan’s first of all a very bright guy, he’s got really good work ethic, he loves the game, he loves to play, he loves to practice, he sets a good example, he’s a good leader, he’s got a really really good understanding of everything that we’re doing in the secondary. Of course he’s got a lot of experience but he’s a bright guy and because he’s very conscientious to go with really good ability, he’s got really good size, he’s improved his ability to cover people I think a lot last year and this spring and this fall so far,” Saban said.

“I just really think he’s a complete player and I think he’s helping other players play better with his leadership. Communication is so important in the secondary and when you have confident guys that aren’t afraid to call out, it helps other the people around them play with more confidence as well and he’s certainly contributed to that in a very positive way,” Saban said.

Jeff Brohm on Jones : “He has been a great teammate and our players love him,” Brohm said. “He competes every day, has been injured quite a bit of the year and not able to practice as much as you like, but he comes out here and works.”

Dabo on Murphy: He is really, really, really special,” Swinney said. “With another year, he may have been the first pick in the draft. I think he has that type of talent. There’s not many people walking the planet that have first overall pick type of talent. But Myles Murphy does.”

The Bengals are getting him at a value because he’s still a developing player. He was at Clemson for three seasons — two-and-a-half years. He’s an incredibly smart kid, loves football. His dad played pro football. He’s been around it his whole life. But his best football is still in front of him,” said Swinney. “I’m just really excited about seeing him take that next step. He’s just a rare talent. A great kid, very smart and a very cerebral player. Incredibly strong and can fly, you know? You just don’t see guys that can move like him and bend. He’s going to be a great one.”

“They are getting a guy who is relentless, powerful, and loves the game. (Murphy) is a physical player, smart. He’s great off the field,” defensive ends coach Lemanski Hall added. “He’s a professional. And he’s going to come in every day with the mindset of getting better.”

Chase Brown and Sydney Brown his twin story:
https://youtu.be/XxeGyrkrolo
“The early life adversity this kid has gone through has made him extremely family-oriented and loyal and very mature,” Sarkisian said. “That’s what you are getting. An all-around great human who works his tail off and runs aggressively and violently.”

The bottom line is they hit a home run out of the park and still bouncing on the combinations of talent and character. I just think they had their favorite people there that fit this culture and they went there.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-13-2023, 02:37 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: What made this draft exciting for the Zac’s staff & Tobin’s staff was they got their favorite people. They had some talent's they really liked that had good character but then they had some talent’s that had phenomenal character. About half of their picks had off the charts high character and leadership.

“It happened that the best players were also good people,” Tobin said. “That makes the decisions easier.”
Great article in the Athletic: https://theathletic.com/4486780/2023/05/04/bengals-draft-scouts-duke-tobin/?source=user_shared_article

Battle was one. Saban on Battle:
“Well Jordan’s first of all a very bright guy, he’s got really good work ethic, he loves the game, he loves to play, he loves to practice, he sets a good example, he’s a good leader, he’s got a really really good understanding of everything that we’re doing in the secondary. Of course he’s got a lot of experience but he’s a bright guy and because he’s very conscientious to go with really good ability, he’s got really good size, he’s improved his ability to cover people I think a lot last year and this spring and this fall so far,” Saban said.

“I just really think he’s a complete player and I think he’s helping other players play better with his leadership. Communication is so important in the secondary and when you have confident guys that aren’t afraid to call out, it helps other the people around them play with more confidence as well and he’s certainly contributed to that in a very positive way,” Saban said.

Jeff Brohm on Jones : “He has been a great teammate and our players love him,” Brohm said. “He competes every day, has been injured quite a bit of the year and not able to practice as much as you like, but he comes out here and works.”

Dabo on Murphy: He is really, really, really special,” Swinney said. “With another year, he may have been the first pick in the draft. I think he has that type of talent. There’s not many people walking the planet that have first overall pick type of talent. But Myles Murphy does.”

The Bengals are getting him at a value because he’s still a developing player. He was at Clemson for three seasons — two-and-a-half years. He’s an incredibly smart kid, loves football. His dad played pro football. He’s been around it his whole life. But his best football is still in front of him,” said Swinney. “I’m just really excited about seeing him take that next step. He’s just a rare talent. A great kid, very smart and a very cerebral player. Incredibly strong and can fly, you know? You just don’t see guys that can move like him and bend. He’s going to be a great one.”

“They are getting a guy who is relentless, powerful, and loves the game. (Murphy) is a physical player, smart. He’s great off the field,” defensive ends coach Lemanski Hall added. “He’s a professional. And he’s going to come in every day with the mindset of getting better.”

Chase Brown and Sydney Brown his twin story:
https://youtu.be/XxeGyrkrolo
“The early life adversity this kid has gone through has made him extremely family-oriented and loyal and very mature,” Sarkisian said. “That’s what you are getting. An all-around great human who works his tail off and runs aggressively and violently.”

The bottom line is they hit a home run out of the park and still bouncing on the combinations of talent and character. I just think they had their favorite people there that fit this culture and they went there.

Great post Soonerpeace. Makes me feel even better about this Draft. This is the culture, high character leaders that have the smarts 
and talent. What Dabo said about MM really sticks out to me, another year and he could of been the first overall pick in the Draft is 
really saying something, excited to see him grow into a great player for the Bengals. Didn't even think he was in the cards at 28 so 
never thought Myles Murphy was an option, never really talked about him prior to the Draft, nobody really did at least to the Bengals.

DJ Turner and Chase Brown were 2 guys that just seemed to fit what the Bengals needed to a T prior to the Draft. Glad to have them.

Those are some great things Lou said about Jordan Battle, love that. Hope Charlie Jones can stay healthy for us, really good player 
who works his ass off and has good speed while running crisp routes and has fantastic hands. At the very least as a rookie he should 
make some plays as a Returner. The Charlie Jones pick really makes Trent Taylor's future here bleak and is great insurance once Boyd
leaves after this season.

[Soonerpeace]

The Ten Reasons this Draft was an A (not ranked)
1. Myles Murphy biggest steal in the first round according to Arif Hasan’s consensus big board
2. Murphy: 9.71 relative athletic score (RAS) out of ten with a 4.51-second 40-yard dash and a 7.22 in the 3-cone drill at 6.5 270
3. D J Turner 4.26 40
4. Jordan Battle started 44 games at Alabama
5. Brad Robbins excellent hang time and great at directional punting and zero touchbacks in 43 punts.
6. Chase Brown as a 5th rounder his RAS score of 9.81 just behind B J Robinson and 3rd of all drafted backs.
7. D J Turner per Matt Bowen former NFL CB and ESPN Analyst “ best technique of all corners”
8 Andrei Iosivas 6.3 39” vertical length 4.43 40 at combine but his record 6.71 60 meter at NCAA Indoor Championships (heptathlon) translates to 4.28.
9. Chase Brown “elite speed to perimeter and good appetite for pass protection”
10. Jordan Battle drafted 95th but rated 3rd best safety

[Nepa]

(05-13-2023, 02:37 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: What made this draft exciting for the Zac’s staff & Tobin’s staff was they got their favorite people. They had some talent's they really liked that had good character but then they had some talent’s that had phenomenal character. About half of their picks had off the charts high character and leadership.

*****
The bottom line is they hit a home run out of the park and still bouncing on the combinations of talent and character. I just think they had their favorite people there that fit this culture and they went there.

Good post. i definitely like the penchant of Zac and company to select all these captains and players of character. And the comment of Dabo that Murphy, given one more year, could have been considered for the top pick of the 2024 draft is certainly inspiring.

[Nepa]

(05-13-2023, 02:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: *****


Well, we passed on him 3 times and lots had DW going in the 1st Round...

Plus, we seem to love the guys we got, I sure do. Myles Murphy, DJ Turner and Jordan Battle could be studs down the road.

It did surprise me with the stealers grabbing DW, maybe we would of picked him if they did not, maybe we wouldn't, I have no idea.

We seem to value Defense and WR's much more than TE's. Even the UDFA we got at TE I know nothing about and we still haven't
brought back Mitch Wilcox (hope we do).

We will see soon enough about DW given the Bengals face Pittsburgh twice a year. We will also see about Porter, jr.. But no matter how Porter, Jr. does, I'm sure we'll be treated to hearing from his father, or seeing his father on TV, every time we face the Steelers.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-13-2023, 10:11 PM)Nepa Wrote: We will see soon enough about DW given the Bengals face Pittsburgh twice a year. We will also see about Porter, jr.. But no matter how Porter, Jr. does, I'm sure we'll be treated to hearing from his father, or seeing his father on TV, every time we face the Steelers.

True, expecting Porter Jr to get burnt a lot by our guys. He is a man corner in a zone corner league. Chase will eat him alive.

I love that the stealers drafted him. DW? Not sure. If the knees are bad he could of been another bad pick for them, sure hope so.

Go ahead and talk Joey while your son becomes toast lol

[Soonerpeace]

(05-14-2023, 03:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True, expecting Porter Jr to get burnt a lot by our guys. He is a man corner in a zone corner league. Chase will eat him alive.

I love that the stealers drafted him. DW? Not sure. If the knees are bad he could of been another bad pick for them, sure hope so.

Go ahead and talk Joey while your son becomes toast lol

Washington’s injury situation and for that matter anybody drafted can fall because it’s a buyers market so to speak. Once they start falling there’s just plenty of options. I really think they thought he was a reach at 60 ( as did others as he didn’t go until 93) and he was gone at 95. But they weren’t passing on Battle at 95. The entire room was giddy he was there at 95. They absolutely love what Jordan brings.

[Whatever]

(05-13-2023, 01:17 PM)Nepa Wrote: Have we heard anything definitively that the Bengals didn't want DW? They may have thought they could pick up another 6th round pick for a punter, move down a few spots, and still get DW. Pittsburgh picking him up may have surprised them, since they didn't seem to be in he market for a TE after having used a high pick on one last year. Or, maybe they had a couple of players with about the same grade, including DW, and decided to trade down, pick up the 6th, and take the one who was left at their pick.

Rapien said he wasn't seen as a fit for the offense FWIW.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/why-didnt-bengals-address-tight-end-in-the-2023-nfl-draft

[Nepa]

(05-14-2023, 05:16 PM)Whatever Wrote: Rapien said he wasn't seen as a fit for the offense FWIW.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/why-didnt-bengals-address-tight-end-in-the-2023-nfl-draft

That was a very nice read. Thank you.

[Soonerpeace]

(05-14-2023, 05:16 PM)Whatever Wrote: Rapien said he wasn't seen as a fit for the offense FWIW.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/why-didnt-bengals-address-tight-end-in-the-2023-nfl-draft

Yep he nailed it.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-14-2023, 04:16 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Washington’s injury situation and for that matter anybody drafted can fall because it’s a buyers market so to speak. Once they start falling there’s just plenty of options. I really think they thought he was a reach at 60 ( as did others as he didn’t go until 93) and he was gone at 95. But they weren’t passing on Battle at 95. The entire room was giddy he was there at 95. They absolutely love what Jordan brings.

I get it. Makes sense. Love the Jordan Battle pick myself, Lou sure is showering him with praise. Between Dax and Jordan we could
end up having a future great duo at Safety.

(05-14-2023, 05:16 PM)Whatever Wrote: Rapien said he wasn't seen as a fit for the offense FWIW.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/why-didnt-bengals-address-tight-end-in-the-2023-nfl-draft

Cool, thanks for this. Guess we wanted more of a pass catcher at TE which is interesting as we seem to always prefer blockers.

[Bengal Dude]

(05-15-2023, 05:41 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I get it. Makes sense. Love the Jordan Battle pick myself, Lou sure is showering him with praise. Between Dax and Jordan we could
end up having a future great duo at Safety.


Cool, thanks for this. Guess we wanted more of a pass catcher at TE which is interesting as we seem to always prefer blockers.

Marvin definitely preferred blockers, with Eifert being the only exception. 

I believe Zac and Callahan prefer receiving threats, but the TE board did not fall their way for the last two drafts.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-16-2023, 01:51 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Marvin definitely preferred blockers, with Eifert being the only exception. 

I believe Zac and Callahan prefer receiving threats, but the TE board did not fall their way for the last two drafts.

Makes you really scratch your head then with taking Sample in Rd 2.
He had only 46 receptions across 4 seasons in college for just 487 yards (10.6 YPC).
DW, by comparison, 45 receptions across 3 seasons for 774 yards (17.2 YPC).
DW also was more athletic than Sample.

I can respect the team not feeling DW was experienced enough as a pass catcher, but I personally thought blocking was a high priority for their TEs, so I thought they would have gambled on DW's receiving development due to his size, athleticism, and blocking ability.
Maybe they learned from the Sample pick and feel now that it's not worth taking a TE so early unless they have a lot of proven pass catching ability.

[Soonerpeace]

(05-16-2023, 05:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Makes you really scratch your head then with taking Sample in Rd 2.
He had only 46 receptions across 4 seasons in college for just 487 yards (10.6 YPC).
DW, by comparison, 45 receptions across 3 seasons for 774 yards (17.2 YPC).
DW also was more athletic than Sample.

I can respect the team not feeling DW was experienced enough as a pass catcher, but I personally thought blocking was a high priority for their TEs, so I thought they would have gambled on DW's receiving development due to his size, athleticism, and blocking ability.
Maybe they learned from the Sample pick and feel now that it's not worth taking a TE so early unless they have a lot of proven pass catching ability.

Sample was Zac’s first draft. He had no dynamics with Duke. Maybe Zac wanted him. I think that they reached for Sample. First draft together. I’m of course the president of the Zac Taylor fan club on here but betting he’s the one who pushed for Sample. And Duke didn’t want to dishearten him by saying no. Washington I just think fell wrong and the injury factored. They weren’t giving up Battle for him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-16-2023, 01:51 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Marvin definitely preferred blockers, with Eifert being the only exception. 

I believe Zac and Callahan prefer receiving threats, but the TE board did not fall their way for the last two drafts.

That was the case with Marv no doubt. That is pretty much what they have been saying, the draft just didn't fall the way they 
needed it to for them to select a TE that fits their plans.

(05-16-2023, 05:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Makes you really scratch your head then with taking Sample in Rd 2.
He had only 46 receptions across 4 seasons in college for just 487 yards (10.6 YPC).
DW, by comparison, 45 receptions across 3 seasons for 774 yards (17.2 YPC).
DW also was more athletic than Sample.

I can respect the team not feeling DW was experienced enough as a pass catcher, but I personally thought blocking was a high priority for their TEs, so I thought they would have gambled on DW's receiving development due to his size, athleticism, and blocking ability.
Maybe they learned from the Sample pick and feel now that it's not worth taking a TE so early unless they have a lot of proven pass catching ability.

Maybe they are learning eh?

I think this is the case here, because yes, the Drew Sample pick is the outlier...

(05-16-2023, 05:50 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Sample was Zac’s first draft. He had no dynamics with Duke. Maybe Zac wanted him. I think that they reached for Sample. First draft together. I’m of course the president of the Zac Taylor fan club on here but betting he’s the one who pushed for Sample. And Duke didn’t want to dishearten him by saying no. Washington I just think fell wrong and the injury factored. They weren’t giving up Battle for him.

That first season was a complete learning experience for Zac and everybody involved no question as it didn't look good at all.

What a turn around as far as the growth of Zac, Lou and the FO together since then....

[Bengal Dude]

(05-16-2023, 05:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Makes you really scratch your head then with taking Sample in Rd 2.
He had only 46 receptions across 4 seasons in college for just 487 yards (10.6 YPC).
DW, by comparison, 45 receptions across 3 seasons for 774 yards (17.2 YPC).
DW also was more athletic than Sample.

I can respect the team not feeling DW was experienced enough as a pass catcher, but I personally thought blocking was a high priority for their TEs, so I thought they would have gambled on DW's receiving development due to his size, athleticism, and blocking ability.
Maybe they learned from the Sample pick and feel now that it's not worth taking a TE so early unless they have a lot of proven pass catching ability.

The whole 2019 offseason was a weird one. Definitely explains why the draft just left a weird feeling for everyone. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(05-13-2023, 04:06 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The Ten Reasons this Draft was an A (not ranked)
1. Myles Murphy biggest steal in the first round according to Arif Hasan’s consensus big board
2. Murphy: 9.71 relative athletic score (RAS) out of ten with a 4.51-second 40-yard dash and a 7.22 in the 3-cone drill at 6.5 270
3. D J Turner 4.26 40
4. Jordan Battle started 44 games at Alabama
5. Brad Robbins excellent hang time and great at directional punting and zero touchbacks in 43 punts.
6. Chase Brown as a 5th rounder his RAS score of 9.81 just behind B J Robinson and 3rd of all drafted backs.
7. D J Turner  per Matt Bowen former NFL CB and ESPN Analyst “ best technique of all corners”
8 Andrei Iosivas 6.3 39” vertical length 4.43 40 at combine but his record 6.71 60 meter at NCAA Indoor Championships (heptathlon) translates to 4.28.
9. Chase Brown “elite speed to perimeter and good appetite for pass protection”
10. Jordan Battle drafted 95th but rated 3rd best safety

Just a couple more: 

1. These guys have great athletic profiles, but also were productive players and leaders. 
2. Miles Murphy was 2nd in the ACC in sacks and had 11 TFL. He doesn't just hunt sacks. Team captain. 
3. DJ Turner RAS of 9.58. Fastest 40. But also allowed a passer rating og 68.3 in 2022 and 54.8 in 2021. He can play. 
4. Jordan Battle was a team captain. 
5. Charlie Jones RAS of 8.54, with the negative being his size. 
6. Charlie Jones led the nation with 110 receptions and setting the school record at Purdue. Was 2nd in yards with 1,361. And 5th in TDs with 12. AP 2nd Team all-American. Big Ten Special Teams player of the year (Reggie Toby award) in 2021 at Iowa. QB rating of 119.0 when targeted. Excelled vs PSU & Michigan. 
7. Chase Brown was 4th in the nation in rushing yards (1,643) and 3rd in rushing yards per game (136.9). Second in nation in forced missed tackles (83). Amazing personal story. 
8. Andrei Iosivas RAS of 9.96. 
9. Iosivas also a team Captain. Led Ivy League in catches, yards, and TDs. 
10. Brad Robbins. Great hangtime. Zero touchbacks last year. 

Production, ability, smarts, character, culture fits. 

[Soonerpeace]

(05-17-2023, 12:01 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Just a couple more: 

1. These guys have great athletic profiles, but also were productive players and leaders. 
2. Miles Murphy was 2nd in the ACC in sacks and had 11 TFL. He doesn't just hunt sacks. Team captain. 
3. DJ Turner RAS of 9.58. Fastest 40. But also allowed a passer rating og 68.3 in 2022 and 54.8 in 2021. He can play. 
4. Jordan Battle was a team captain. 
5. Charlie Jones RAS of 8.54, with the negative being his size. 
6. Charlie Jones led the nation with 110 receptions and setting the school record at Purdue. Was 2nd in yards with 1,361. And 5th in TDs with 12. AP 2nd Team all-American. Big Ten Special Teams player of the year (Reggie Toby award) in 2021 at Iowa. QB rating of 119.0 when targeted. Excelled vs PSU & Michigan. 
7. Chase Brown was 4th in the nation in rushing yards (1,643) and 3rd in rushing yards per game (136.9). Second in nation in forced missed tackles (83). Amazing personal story. 
8. Andrei Iosivas RAS of 9.96. 
9. Iosivas also a team Captain. Led Ivy League in catches, yards, and TDs. 
10. Brad Robbins. Great hangtime. Zero touchbacks last year. 

Production, ability, smarts, character, culture fits. 

After looking and discovering on our picks did you get more excited?


Iosivas after their first up close look definitely is a project. His technique on catching passes definitely needs refinement. I’m not suggesting there’s any buyers remorse on the contrary. He just needs a lot of refinement and if he wants to make it in the league his road has just begun.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-17-2023, 12:01 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Just a couple more: 

1. These guys have great athletic profiles, but also were productive players and leaders. 
2. Miles Murphy was 2nd in the ACC in sacks and had 11 TFL. He doesn't just hunt sacks. Team captain. 
3. DJ Turner RAS of 9.58. Fastest 40. But also allowed a passer rating og 68.3 in 2022 and 54.8 in 2021. He can play. 
4. Jordan Battle was a team captain. 
5. Charlie Jones RAS of 8.54, with the negative being his size. 
6. Charlie Jones led the nation with 110 receptions and setting the school record at Purdue. Was 2nd in yards with 1,361. And 5th in TDs with 12. AP 2nd Team all-American. Big Ten Special Teams player of the year (Reggie Toby award) in 2021 at Iowa. QB rating of 119.0 when targeted. Excelled vs PSU & Michigan. 
7. Chase Brown was 4th in the nation in rushing yards (1,643) and 3rd in rushing yards per game (136.9). Second in nation in forced missed tackles (83). Amazing personal story. 
8. Andrei Iosivas RAS of 9.96. 
9. Iosivas also a team Captain. Led Ivy League in catches, yards, and TDs. 
10. Brad Robbins. Great hangtime. Zero touchbacks last year. 

Production, ability, smarts, character, culture fits. 

Nice. Charlie Jones and Chase Brown, these guys are special, expecting both to be good ones for us even as rookies.

(05-17-2023, 12:15 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: After looking and discovering on our picks did you get more excited?


Iosivas after their first up close look definitely is a project. His technique on catching passes definitely needs refinement. I’m not suggesting there’s any buyers remorse on the contrary. He just needs a lot of refinement and if he wants to make it in the league his road has just begun.

Yes, Iosivas tends to catch with his body and not his hands. That is his knock.

[Soonerpeace]

(05-17-2023, 01:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nice. Charlie Jones and Chase Brown, these guys are special, expecting both to be good ones for us even as rookies.


Yes, Iosivas tends to catch with his body and not his hands. That is his knock.

You meant reverse I know lol.