JoeyBs contract comes first

[Sled21]

(06-04-2023, 09:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And so are people that keep suggesting Burrow will leave money on the table.

The deal would probably already be done if that was the case. He’s likely waiting to top Herbert’s contract.

Well Joe has already publicly said that other players need to get paid too, so it's definitely on his mind. 
While I don't expect Burrow to walk away with peanuts, I think it's kind of obvious at this point that winning means more to him than being the highest paid QB.

[Nepa]

(06-04-2023, 12:09 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Well Joe has already publicly said that other players need to get paid too, so it's definitely on his mind. 
While I don't expect Burrow to walk away with peanuts, I think it's kind of obvious at this point that winning means more to him than being the highest paid QB.

Given the cap, it really comes down to what you are saying. If Burrow requires every last cent he can get, otherwise he goes to free agency, then the Bengals will be limited in other places. The teams with sustained success over several years (Patriots, KC most recently) had QBs with salaries that allowed the signing of excellent surrounding talent. My expectation is that Burrow will chose a route that allows sustained team success.

[*bfine32*]

(06-04-2023, 09:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And so are people that keep suggesting Burrow will leave money on the table.

The deal would probably already be done if that was the case. He’s likely waiting to top Herbert’s contract.

Yes, they are. But, I'm not ready to assert they are wrong; nor, am I prepared to demand they stop with their thoughts. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-04-2023, 01:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes, they are. But, I'm not ready to assert they are wrong; nor, am I prepared to demand they stop with their thoughts. 

I didn’t “demand” anything. I asked why people are still using such a tired outlier of a situation as their go-to example.

Mahomes is a more realistic comparison.

[*bfine32*]

(06-04-2023, 05:44 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I didn’t “demand” anything. I asked why people are still using such a tired outlier of a situation as their go-to example.

Mahomes is a more realistic comparison.

Poorly worded on my part. 

[PDub80]

(06-03-2023, 10:16 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I would doubt that. Florio's idea is not good for the team whatsoever.  It would be disastrous for us.   

I didn't see the Florio stuff. He's usually a clown, so you're probably right on it being a disasterous idea if that's where it came from.

If it's a huge bonus and 18-20% of the cap for X years, I think that's not bad? I'm indifferent. I just want something interesting or clever to be done.... as long as it isn't a bad move for the Bengals. After Joe's press conference about it, I'm not worried that he's trying to choke them out of every penny he can.

[casear2727]

(06-05-2023, 07:56 AM)PDub80 Wrote: I didn't see the Florio stuff. He's usually a clown, so you're probably right on it being a disasterous idea if that's where it came from.

If it's a huge bonus and 18-20% of the cap for X years, I think that's not bad? I'm indifferent. I just want something interesting or clever to be done.... as long as it isn't a bad move for the Bengals. After Joe's press conference about it, I'm not worried that he's trying to choke them out of every penny he can.

It is not team friendly.  Whatever non-percentage contract we did with Joe will eventually get better as the cap rises and his percentage of the cap decreases.  A percentage of the cap to him means we never get that break.  Also a percentage of the cap does not allow for the flexible structure like KC has with Mahomes.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-05-2023, 03:05 PM)casear2727 Wrote: It is not team friendly.  Whatever non-percentage contract we did with Joe will eventually get better as the cap rises and his percentage of the cap decreases.  A percentage of the cap to him means we never get that break.  Also a percentage of the cap does not allow for the flexible structure like KC has with Mahomes.

I agree that a percentage of the cap is a bad idea, as it would set a precedent that all franchise QBs would come to expect that same percentage.  Kind of like how so many players are wanting fully to mostly fully guaranteed contracts, after Cleveland pulled that stunt with Watson.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(06-04-2023, 09:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And so are people that keep suggesting Burrow will leave money on the table.

The deal would probably already be done if that was the case. He’s likely waiting to top Herbert’s contract.

You could be right on that. But I think you can interpret things the other way as well. A deal where we just give him the bag is pretty easy to get done, too. A delay could signal something creative/unusual or some coordination with Chase/Higgins. 

I mean, my scenario would be, Joe is thinking, what is my acceptible range? What is Tee's? What is Chase's? What does that do to the team? Wilson? Reader? Chido? Do I need to adjust? Am I willing to? Are they? Lots of moving parts. 

We went out & got Joe the best FA LT on the market + two new WRs and retained Jonah & Collins. Plus a speedy rookie RB. Lots of new toys. All while going defense in rounds 1-3, upgrading punter, and signing Hurst's replacement. 

[*bfine32*]

The one benefit of a % of the Cap Contract is that the player could never come back and demand renegotiation.

We see it all the time. Big $ players see others getting more as the cap rises and they want to renegotiate.

We may be able to save a Million or 2 with another type of structured contract, but why not keep JB happy? Hell, we don't know, he might take less % for the security. Folks saying it's bad for the team have 0 idea how big of a percentage JB would want.

[George Cantstandya]

(06-05-2023, 06:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The one benefit of a % of the Cap Contract is that the player could never come back and demand renegotiation.

How so?  What's to stop a player from saying for example, "I agreed to 18% of the cap for 6 seasons but now after 3 great seasons I think I'm worth 19.5% and I'll demand a trade if you don't do it because someone else will pay me that."  

It doesn't solve anything about trying to renegotiate down the road if a player chooses to go there. It just changes what is renegotiated. So if player A took 18% and then 3 years later player B on another team takes 19% nothing stopping player A for asking for a bump to 19.5% if he thinks he is worth more than player B.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(06-03-2023, 07:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You're kinda just guessing. Mahomes took a team-friendly deal and he married not into money. 

He stated when asked about his contract that others need to be taken care of. I will not totally rule out JB being "creative" to help the cap

Only team friendly because of the length/structure followed by people overpaying mediocre QBs. He rocketed past the highest paid QB in the league at the time.

The highest paid QB in the league when Mahomes signed was making $35m/yr. Mahomes then signed for $45m/yr. He jumped the highest paid QB in the league by 28.6%. That means if Burrow had an equivalent jump over the highest paid QB right now, that would be a 10yr/$668.6m deal. I haven't seen anyone suggest Burrow should take a "team friendly" $66.86m/yr deal.

Also they're already looking at giving Mahomes more money on his deal. NFL players know their worth.

[*bfine32*]

(06-05-2023, 06:49 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: How so?  What's to stop a player from saying for example, "I agreed to 18% of the cap for 6 seasons but now after 3 great seasons I think I'm worth 19.5% and I'll demand a trade if you don't do it because someone else will pay me that."  

It doesn't solve anything about trying to renegotiate down the road if a player chooses to go there.  It just changes what is renegotiated.  So if player A took 18% and then 3 years later player B on another team takes 19% nothing stopping player A for asking for a bump to 19.5% if he thinks he is worth more than player B.

Well, all most renegotiations occur because the cap goes up so teams can afford to pay their QBs more money.  I'd also assert it would look worse on the player if he came out and said "I want a larger percentage of your cap", instead of "I want a raise". May be semantics, but semantics matter.

But folks need to make up their minds. Is a percentage of the cap good for the team or the player? 

IMO it's easier to sell long-term that we'll always give you x% of the cap instead of we'll give you x amount of dollars. 

[*bfine32*]

(06-05-2023, 07:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Only team friendly because of the length/structure followed by people overpaying mediocre QBs. He rocketed past the highest paid QB in the league at the time.

The highest paid QB in the league when Mahomes signed was making $35m/yr. Mahomes then signed for $45m/yr. He jumped the highest paid QB in the league by 28.6%. That means if Burrow had an equivalent jump over the highest paid QB right now, that would be a 10yr/$668.6m deal. I haven't seen anyone suggest Burrow should take a "team friendly" $66.86m/yr deal.

Also they're already looking at giving Mahomes more money on his deal. NFL players know their worth.

So it was team-friendly deal. 

[George Cantstandya]

(06-05-2023, 08:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well, all most renegotiations occur because the cap goes up so teams can afford to pay their QBs more money. 

But folks need to make up their minds. Is a percentage of the cap good for the team or the player? 

IMO it's easier to sell long-term that we'll always give you x% of the cap instead of we'll give you x amount of dollars. 

It really depends on how things are structured I guess.  IMO players usually look for the guaranteed money first and foremost because that is their security blanket.    But if we are talking about a percentage of the cap then how much of that percentage is guaranteed?  Because if it is we will always give you X percent of the cap over your contract guaranteed and that player has a career ending injury early on or starts to play terrible for some reason then teams gets the short end of the stick. But if a team has a traditional contract with X amount guaranteed and the player has a career ending injury or gets cut because they started to play terrible over time as the cap increases the hit the team takes is less.  

So my opinion is that a percentage of the cap, if guaranteed, is good for the player and risky for the team.

[*bfine32*]

(06-05-2023, 08:42 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: It really depends on how things are structured I guess.  IMO players usually look for the guaranteed money first and foremost because that is their security blanket.    But if we are talking about a percentage of the cap then how much of that percentage is guaranteed?  Because if it is we will always give you X percent of the cap over your contract guaranteed and that player has a career ending injury early on or starts to play terrible for some reason then teams gets the short end of the stick. But if a team has a traditional contract with X amount guaranteed and the player has a career ending injury or gets cut because they started to play terrible over time as the cap increases the hit the team takes is less.  

So my opinion is that a percentage of the cap, if guaranteed, is good for the player and risky for the team.

All great points, but my point was one of the advantages of a % of the Cap deal is it makes it much harder for the player to demand a raise.

Say we give JB $1 Gazillion this year and in 2 years the Jags give Sunshine $1.2 Gazillion. JB's management can come back and say "JB's better than Sunshine; he deserves $1.4 Gazillion." That has 0 negative connotations. But come back and say "JB's more important to the team than the other players, he deserves more of their money". Then...

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(06-05-2023, 08:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So it was team-friendly deal. 

So you want Burrow to sign a 10yr/$668.6m deal. People keep wanting a Burrow contract that's like Mahomes, but they never seem to want the massive market-changing number that Mahomes got.

Also not very friendly at all if he's already going to get a raise with 9 years left on his 10 year extension. Means it's the first of many raises to come over the length of the contract if it's already happening.

[TecmoBengals]

Herbert needs to sign so a Burrow deal can get completed. I think Burrow is patiently waiting to be the last QB among those in the extension phase to see the final benchmark for determining his own deal.

[Bengalbug]

(06-05-2023, 08:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So it was team-friendly deal. 

They are already re negotiating.

[007BengalsFan]

(06-05-2023, 08:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: All great points, but my point was one of the advantages of a % of the Cap deal is it makes it much harder for the player to demand a raise.

Say we give JB $1 Gazillion this year and in 2 years the Jags give Sunshine $1.2 Gazillion. JB's management can come back and say "JB's better than Sunshine; he deserves $1.4 Gazillion." That has 0 negative connotations. But come back and say "JB's more important to the team than the other players, he deserves more of their money". Then...

Any large amount of money a QB takes means less money for other players.  If Burrow were to sign a 53 million per year contract then come back in a couple of years and say he is more important than other players and now wants 60 million, he deserves more of their money...  You are in the same boat.  QBs have never been shy about claiming they are more important than other players while wanting more of a teams cap. 

As far as a percentage contract, you would have a player that signs a large contract but that contracts price keeps rising and takes more and more money from the cap every year vs a fixed contract.  The percentage contract is just a horrible idea for everyone but the QB and his agent.  I dont know how anyone could think this is a good idea.  Instead of paying Burrow 53 million a year for 6 years, lets pay him 53 million this year then keep raising his pay every year.  Is that the solution to helping the team?  Pay a QB lots of money and just keep giving him more and more every year?  How is that a good idea?  How does that help the team?