Lou is going to HAVE to call cover 2 way more this year

[Housh]

There’s no way around it. Without Jesse Bates(Who at this point is CRIMINALLY underrated for his ability to lock up the whole field from that deep 3rd safety position.) We are going to have to implement more cover 2 to protect our corners.


Iv been seeing that Zac and Lou are REALLY high on Nick Scott’s ability to play single high but with drafting Battle, i have to imagine it’s going to be a hard decision on when to play either Scott or Battle. Battle simply does not have the physical ability to play single high so that leaves only 2 safeties i have ANY comfortability with playing single high and one is a 2nd year man and the other is Scott who was decent in LA but there’s a reason they let him walk.

This year is going to be a game to game dissection of Lou’s football mind and i think he’ll do well. This year is going to be a roller coaster watching the defense.

[Frank Booth]

Are people still sour on Dax Hill because of his special teams gaffes? Because it seems people are overlooking him

[*ochocincos*]

(06-05-2023, 02:09 PM)Housh Wrote: There’s no way around it. Without Jesse Bates(Who at this point is CRIMINALLY underrated for his ability to lock up the whole field from that deep 3rd safety position.) We are going to have to implement more cover 2 to protect our corners.


Iv been seeing that Zac and Lou are REALLY high on Nick Scott’s ability to play single high but with drafting Battle, i have to imagine it’s going to be a hard decision on when to play either Scott or Battle. Battle simply does not have the physical ability to play single high so that leaves only 2 safeties i have ANY comfortability with playing single high and one is a 2nd year man and the other is Scott who was decent in LA but there’s a reason they let him walk.

This year is going to be a game to game dissection of Lou’s football mind and i think he’ll do well. This year is going to be a roller coaster watching the defense.

I'll be curious to see how the battle between Hill, Battle, and Scott pans out.
Who will we see predominantly at FS and SS?

[*Synric*]

Nick Scott played cover 3 centerfield safety for the Rams.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Hou Wrote:There’s no way around it. Without Jesse Bates(Who at this point is CRIMINALLY underrated for his ability to lock up the whole field from that deep 3rd safety position.) We are going to have to implement more cover 2 to protect our corners.


Iv been seeing that Zac and Lou are REALLY high on Nick Scott’s ability to play single high but with drafting Battle, i have to imagine it’s going to be a hard decision on when to play either Scott or Battle. Battle simply does not have the physical ability to play single high so that leaves only 2 safeties i have ANY comfortability with playing single high and one is a 2nd year man and the other is Scott who was decent in LA but there’s a reason they let him walk.

This year is going to be a game to game dissection of Lou’s football mind and i think he’ll do well. This year is going to be a roller coaster watching the defense.

Bates was a good rangy Safety over his career here but I wouldn't say he is CRIMINALLY underrated. The last few years he
wasn't playing his best with the extension on his mind. He played fantastic in the Playoffs on our way to the Super Bowl but
last year early in the season he was playing not to get hurt, soft and he played pretty bad in the Playoffs, especially against
the Chiefs.

There will be some growing pains with Dax Hill and Nick Scott learning to play together but we are faster in the Secondary
this year. I could see us being better by mid season and Jordan Battle and Tycen Anderson are great insurance policies in
case Scott isn't the answer.

We will see, but Dax Hill could be the next great Safety in the NFL, he is just as fast as Bates, actually faster and is a better
tackler. Scott is WAY faster than Bell. With Lou coaching our Secondary I think we will be fine after some initial struggles early
in the season with Hill and Scott getting on the same page.

Lots of Rams fans hated losing Nick Scott to us.

[jj22]

(06-05-2023, 02:18 PM)Synric Wrote: Nick Scott played cover 3 centerfield safety for the Rams.

and gave up 118 passer rating in coverage.... He needs to be at the line of scrimmage. 

[*Synric*]

(06-05-2023, 02:59 PM)jj22 Wrote: and gave up 118 passer rating in coverage.... He needs to be at the line of scrimmage. 

Doesnt matter because some of that is the result in that team as a whole.


 Scott was the centerfield safety for the Rams that is where he is experienced. Daxton on the other hand doesnt have alot of centerfield experience with only a little over 100 snaps there his Senior year in college. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(06-05-2023, 02:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Bates was a good rangy Safety over his career here but I wouldn't say he is CRIMINALLY underrated. The last few years he
wasn't playing his best with the extension on his mind. He played fantastic in the Playoffs on our way to the Super Bowl but
last year early in the season he was playing not to get hurt, soft and he played pretty bad in the Playoffs, especially against
the Chiefs.

There will be some growing pains with Dax Hill and Nick Scott learning to play together but we are faster in the Secondary
this year. I could see us being better by mid season and Jordan Battle and Tycen Anderson are great insurance policies in
case Scott isn't the answer.

We will see, but Dax Hill could be the next great Safety in the NFL, he is just as fast as Bates, actually faster and is a better
tackler. Scott is WAY faster than Bell. With Lou coaching our Secondary I think we will be fine after some initial struggles early
in the season with Hill and Scott getting on the same page.

Lots of Rams fans hated losing Nick Scott to us.

I could not agree more with this. On multiple levels. 

First off, to the OPs post, with Chido back, CTB in year two, and Turner here, I think we are better at CB, despite losing Apple & Flowers. Better CBs means we hold up better in man. Less cover 2 needed. 

Secondly, with regard to safety, I don't regard Bates as a massive loss. He was a good player, but inconsistent. At his best, a great CF/FS type. But not a great tackler. And I loved Bell's instincts, leadership, toughness, & nose for the ball. But he was not the fleetest of foot. And that PF in the SB was brutal. 

Thirdly, with Hill & Scott, we are faster and more flexible. Either guy could play CF/FS like Bates, or move closer to the line and play SS like Bell. And Hill has experience at slot corner. Both guys may hit some bumps positionally, but I think Battle is a good replacement for Bell/Bates in terms of understanding & positioning. He is not the athlete that Hill, Scott, Anderson, or Bates are, but his understanding is great & his straight line speed is pretty good. Good enough. A nice insurance policy if things get bumpy at S. 

Fourth, with regard to Scott, he was good enough for the Rams to win the SB with him starting, against us. I did not notice a bunch of our guys running around wide open because Scott messed up. He picked Brady in the POs. The question of if he is good enough to win a SB with has already been asked & answered. Plus, I think some of the Rams' issues were with Ramsey going rogue at times. In Lou I trust. 

Chido back healthy. CTB in year 2. Turner. The CBs are upgraded. So too the pass rush with Ossai healthy to start & he and Murphy both spelling Trey & Sam. Carter was way better towards the end of last season, he should be better. LB is the same top 5. Even if we take a slight step back at S early on, I think the steps forward elsewhere still spell a defensive improvement. And I am pretty bullish on Hill & Battle. By the end of the year, we could be better at S. 

[sandwedge]

(06-05-2023, 03:34 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I could not agree more with this. On multiple levels. 

First off, to the OPs post, with Chido back, CTB in year two, and Turner here, I think we are better at CB, despite losing Apple & Flowers. Better CBs means we hold up better in man. Less cover 2 needed. 

Secondly, with regard to safety, I don't regard Bates as a massive loss. He was a good player, but inconsistent. At his best, a great CF/FS type. But not a great tackler. And I loved Bell's instincts, leadership, toughness, & nose for the ball. But he was not the fleetest of foot. And that PF in the SB was brutal. 

Thirdly, with Hill & Scott, we are faster and more flexible. Either guy could play CF/FS like Bates, or move closer to the line and play SS like Bell. And Hill has experience at slot corner. Both guys may hit some bumps positionally, but I think Battle is a good replacement for Bell/Bates in terms of understanding & positioning. He is not the athlete that Hill, Scott, Anderson, or Bates are, but his understanding is great & his straight line speed is pretty good. Good enough. A nice insurance policy if things get bumpy at S. 

Fourth, with regard to Scott, he was good enough for the Rams to win the SB with him starting, against us. I did not notice a bunch of our guys running around wide open because Scott messed up. He picked Brady in the POs. The question of if he is good enough to win a SB with has already been asked & answered. Plus, I think some of the Rams' issues were with Ramsey going rogue at times. In Lou I trust. 

Chido back healthy. CTB in year 2. Turner. The CBs are upgraded. So too the pass rush with Ossai healthy to start & he and Murphy both spelling Trey & Sam. Carter was way better towards the end of last season, he should be better. LB is the same top 5. Even if we take a slight step back at S early on, I think the steps forward elsewhere still spell a defensive improvement. And I am pretty bullish on Hill & Battle. By the end of the year, we could be better at S. 

Wasn't it Bates, who stood and watched Kelcie catch A TD ?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-05-2023, 03:34 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I could not agree more with this. On multiple levels. 

First off, to the OPs post, with Chido back, CTB in year two, and Turner here, I think we are better at CB, despite losing Apple & Flowers. Better CBs means we hold up better in man. Less cover 2 needed. 

Secondly, with regard to safety, I don't regard Bates as a massive loss. He was a good player, but inconsistent. At his best, a great CF/FS type. But not a great tackler. And I loved Bell's instincts, leadership, toughness, & nose for the ball. But he was not the fleetest of foot. And that PF in the SB was brutal. 

Thirdly, with Hill & Scott, we are faster and more flexible. Either guy could play CF/FS like Bates, or move closer to the line and play SS like Bell. And Hill has experience at slot corner. Both guys may hit some bumps positionally, but I think Battle is a good replacement for Bell/Bates in terms of understanding & positioning. He is not the athlete that Hill, Scott, Anderson, or Bates are, but his understanding is great & his straight line speed is pretty good. Good enough. A nice insurance policy if things get bumpy at S. 

Fourth, with regard to Scott, he was good enough for the Rams to win the SB with him starting, against us. I did not notice a bunch of our guys running around wide open because Scott messed up. He picked Brady in the POs. The question of if he is good enough to win a SB with has already been asked & answered. Plus, I think some of the Rams' issues were with Ramsey going rogue at times. In Lou I trust. 

Chido back healthy. CTB in year 2. Turner. The CBs are upgraded. So too the pass rush with Ossai healthy to start & he and Murphy both spelling Trey & Sam. Carter was way better towards the end of last season, he should be better. LB is the same top 5. Even if we take a slight step back at S early on, I think the steps forward elsewhere still spell a defensive improvement. And I am pretty bullish on Hill & Battle. By the end of the year, we could be better at S. 

Great post. So true and yes, with the addition of Myles Murphy and Ossai growing as a pass rusher this should really help out the Secondary.

They won't have to cover near as long if our pass rush is getting home. 

Well said on Ramsey going rogue at times and it resulted in the bad pass coverage rating with the rest of that Secondary. That isn't going to 
happen in Lou's Defense, Nick Scott should thrive in this Defense and if he doesn't, I love the upside of both Battle and Tycen Anderson. While
I hated losing Vonn Bell, he relied pretty much on his instincts, something that Jordan Battle does as well, but he is still faster than Bell with 
his straight line speed as you say.

We have lots of options and we are much faster in the Secondary, which means we might not struggle nearly as much as some think in the 
1 high looks. Lou wanted Nick Scott here and he has played as a centerfield Safety as Synric said. And I do think Daxton Hill could do it, even
if he wasn't asked to much at Michigan, he is fast enough no question.

[jj22]

Scott might not even start. That is one of those desperate March signings after losing a bidding war for a starter lost, that a good draft prospect quickly takes the place of. As deep as we are into the offseason, I'm surprised more haven't really seen Scott for what he's worth.

I personally don't think he's all that good. With Battle, and the emotions of losing Bell fading, it might be safe to admit that now.

[Sled21]

Much ado about nothing. Our safeties are a lot faster than they were last year, and our DB coaches, along with Lou, can coach them up. Scott is a veteran, Hill has a year in the system already. I think people expecting a drop off are going to be surprised. Jessie Bates was really good..... when he wanted to be, which was mostly in the playoffs. Bell was an excellent hard-hitting player for us, but he can be replaced.

[Au165]

We have so many game specific checks to our defense the idea we HAVE to run anything is kind of comical. The thing Lou has done, maybe better than anyone in football, is be able to look at what you do and create checks that NO ONE in football is running that are so counter intuitive to how other teams play certain coverages it rattles teams.

I had a buddy who did QA for the Chiefs last year and he said what the Bengals did was literally say this is what KC does and we are doing to play to their personnel not to the coverage. They run a deep over to Kelce out of a lot of variations of unbalanced formations that essentially put safeties in conflict. We had unique rule sets for KC that said if Kelce runs this route we know KC will do this so we will essentially change three different people's responsibilities. He said what was so frustrating for Mahomes at time was that he couldn't pre determine anything he had to hold the ball and WAIT for Cincy to declare which at times is what resulted in the pressure getting there. They made adjustments for playoffs but still found it was different checks than even the first time we played.

We don't simply do this from Cover 1/3 but we do it out of 2,4, 6, and so on. While our defense can be very complex the thing is it is complex by the week, as we change based on who we are playing. We need intelligent guys who know how to make the proper checks and get where they need to be.

[Au165]

(06-05-2023, 04:22 PM)jj22 Wrote: Scott might not even start. That is one of those desperate March signings after losing a bidding war for a starter lost, that a good draft prospect quickly takes the place of. As deep as we are into the offseason, I'm surprised more haven't really seen Scott for what he's worth.

I personally don't think he's all that good. With Battle, and the emotions of losing Bell fading, it might be safe to admit that now.

I actually still really like Scott. I think we will see three safeties on the field a lot with Hill playing all over the field including in the slot and even down as a LB at times.

[*ochocincos*]

If the safeties can play further back to avoid getting beat downfield while still having enough speed and reaction time to get to the LOS so that too much yardage isn't given up in the run game and shorter passes, I'm ok with running much more Cover 2.
But teams can dink and dunk Cover 2 if the defense isn't good/fast enough.

[*Synric*]

(06-05-2023, 04:30 PM)Au165 Wrote: We don't simply do this from Cover 1/3 but we do it out of 2,4, 6, and so on. While our defense can be very complex the thing is it is complex by the week, as we change based on who we are playing. We need intelligent guys who know how to make the proper checks and get where they need to be.

I dont remember much cover 4. Alot of 1 and 3 which made up over half their defensive snaps. Alot of their rotation pressure packages were cover 2. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-05-2023, 04:30 PM)Au165 Wrote: We have so many game specific checks to our defense the idea we HAVE to run anything is kind of comical. The thing Lou has done, maybe better than anyone in football, is be able to look at what you do and create checks that NO ONE in football is running that are so counter intuitive to how other teams play certain coverages it rattles teams.

I had a buddy who did QA for the Chiefs last year and he said what the Bengals did was literally say this is what KC does and we are doing to play to their personnel not to the coverage. They run a deep over to Kelce out of a lot of variations of unbalanced formations that essentially put safeties in conflict. We had unique rule sets  for KC that said if Kelce runs this route we know KC will do this so we will essentially change three different people's responsibilities. He said what was so frustrating for Mahomes at time was that he couldn't pre determine anything he had to hold the ball and WAIT for Cincy to declare which at times is what resulted in the pressure getting there. They made adjustments for playoffs but still found it was different checks than even the first time we played.

We don't simply do this from Cover 1/3 but we do it out of 2,4, 6, and so on. While our defense can be very complex the thing is it is complex by the week, as we change based on who we are playing. We need intelligent guys who know how to make the proper checks and get where they need to be.

Interesting post Au165. That makes sense because yeah, it all depends on the team we are playing and taking away what they 
are comfortable with. Certain checks to take away their most dangerous player IE Kelce with KC. He still got his though, that is 
how good of a player he is.

(06-05-2023, 04:31 PM)Au165 Wrote: I actually still really like Scott. I think we will see three safeties on the field a lot with Hill playing all over the field including in the slot and even down as a LB at times.

Same, I like Scott as well and expect 3 Safeties to play at times with Dax as the versatile Safety playing the Slot and even LB.

That is what was said about Dax before we even drafted him, he tackled like a LB but is WAY faster and better in coverage.

[Housh]

(06-05-2023, 02:11 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Are people still sour on Dax Hill because of his special teams gaffes? Because it seems people are overlooking him

I feel we fall into 2 extremes here regarding Dax.


One group views him as a question mark even though he was a 1st rounder(Group im in) simply because he hasn’t played a lot. Other group is just assuming he’ll be solid by the end of the year.


To me if you are unbiased and don’t care about draft position he’s as much a question mark as Nick Scott and Battle are

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(06-05-2023, 03:56 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Wasn't it Bates, who stood and watched Kelcie catch A TD ?

It sure was. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(06-05-2023, 07:36 PM)Housh Wrote: I feel we fall into 2 extremes here regarding Dax.


One group views him as a question mark even though he was a 1st rounder(Group im in) simply because he hasn’t played a lot. Other group is just assuming he’ll be solid by the end of the year.


To me if you are unbiased and don’t care about draft position he’s as much a question mark as Nick Scott and Battle are

Of course he is a question mark, he did not play much last year, and most of his PT was at slot corner when Hilton went down. Ditto in college, more a CB than a S. He has not olayed a ton of S at all. 

However  by the end of last year and in the POs, he was already getting more snaps than Flowers. Vs Balt Hill got 9 defensive snaps, Flowers 2. At Buffalo, Hill 6, Flowers 0. At KC, Flowers 9, Hill 5. Total POs: Hill 20, Flowers 11. 

That is not a TON, but he already had earned enough trust to play more than Flowers last year. 

Hill rated at 58.1 via PFF last year, with most snaps at corner. 51.6 in POs. Of course, eith your snaps/packages limited, you should do better. But some of his poor play was ST, not D. For a limited snap guy, it can hurt the grade overall.

Bates was 76.8/50.4
Bell was 66.3/72.4. 
Apple was 52.9/66.2 
Flowers was 58.6/65.9
--------------- 
Chido was 69.9/dnp 
CTB was 56.1/79.6
Hilton was 73.4/44.1
Hill was 58.1/51.6
Scott was 54.2/dnp (47.5/73.6 in SB year) 

Our two best regular season guys (Bates & Hilton) graded out the worst in the POs. In some 3rd down passing situations, I could see Turner or Hill in the slot for Hilton and if it is Hill, then Battle at S with Scott.