Best at every number

[Nicomo Cosca]

Hurts plays for a franchise that won a Super Bowl with Nick Foles just a couple years before he got there. Both his OL and DL have been consistently #1 on many rankings I’ve seen. Dude played great last year, not trying to take anything away from him, but let’s be honest he walked into a great situation.

Chase otoh plays for a franchise that hadn’t won a single playoff game in 30 + years before his arrival. A team that didn’t even sniff the playoffs the year before despite having Joe Burrow (they weren’t making it even if he didn’t get injured). Chase has been about as impactful as you can get. He helped the Bengals win back-to-back division titles for the first time in franchise history, and has broken a bunch of records in his 2 years. Not only in the regular season, but the postseason as well.

If this is based solely off last season then it makes sense it’s Hurts, but if it’s entire body of work in the NFL so far it’s Chase.

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-03-2023, 11:51 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Actually after 21 Chase was the top #1, but Stafford was the top #9. 

I can't say i disagree with that either. Stafford had a great year, threw to a triple crown winner and won the bowl, playing well in the reg and post season. 

[*jason*]

(07-03-2023, 12:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Hurts plays for a franchise that won a Super Bowl with Nick Foles just a couple years before he got there. Both his OL and DL have been consistently #1 on many rankings I’ve seen. Dude played great last year, not trying to take anything away from him, but let’s be honest he walked into a great situation.

Chase otoh plays for a franchise that hadn’t won a single playoff game in 30 + years before his arrival. A team that didn’t even sniff the playoffs the year before despite having Joe Burrow (they weren’t making it even if he didn’t get injured). Chase has been about as impactful as you can get. He helped the Bengals win back-to-back division titles for the first time in franchise history, and has broken a bunch of records in his 2 years. Not only in the regular season, but the postseason as well.

If this is based solely off last season then it makes sense it’s Hurts, but if it’s entire body of work in the NFL so far it’s Chase.

The 3-1 without Chase argument is pretty silly too. Those were some bad teams they played over that stretch.

[*bfine32*]

(07-03-2023, 12:53 PM)Whatever Wrote: No, I asked what team success has to do with individual greatness.

The Browns suck.  Are Garrett, Ward, and Chubb not great individual players, though?  

It's strange that a board populated by fans that constantly lament that a lack of team success has kept a number of great individual players out of the HoF would immediately point at team success as a measure of an individual player in a discussion of current players.

Can't speak to others but I spoke to individual success for Hurts. Folks just cannot dismiss the fact that the team went 14-1 with him starting and 0-2 with him out. Ther's a great chance if Hurts doesn't get hurt (see what I did) he's the NFL MVP. While he was hurt he still missed fewer games than JC last year. 

While missing 2 games last year the kid had over 4,400 total yards of offense last year, 35 TDs, a passer rating of over 100. 

In the biggest game in his career, he had 374 total yards of offense, 4 TDs, and a passer rating of over 103.

It's OK if JC is the 2nd best player in the NFL to wear #1, but after last year 99.9% of NFL fans would give #1 to Jalen Hurts. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-03-2023, 02:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Can't speak to others but I spoke to individual success for Hurts. Folks just cannot dismiss the fact that the team went 14-1 with him starting and 0-2 with him out. Ther's a great chance if Hurts doesn't get hurt (see what I did) he's the NFL MVP. While he was hurt he still missed fewer games than JC last year. 

While missing 2 games last year the kid had over 4,400 total yards of offense last year, 35 TDs, a passer rating of over 100. 

In the biggest game in his career, he had 374 total yards of offense, 4 TDs, and a passer rating of over 103.

It's OK if JC is the 2nd best player in the NFL to wear #1, but after last year 99.9% of NFL fans would give #1 to Jalen Hurts. 

Not dismissing but it’s worth noting that Philly had one of the easiest strength of schedules in the league last season. They really didn’t beat any premier teams until the 9ers in the NFC Championship (for comparison I’d say the Bengals had 2: Chiefs & Bills).

[*bfine32*]

(07-03-2023, 02:23 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not dismissing but it’s worth noting that Philly had one of the easiest strength of schedules in the league last season. They really didn’t beat any premier teams until the 9ers in the NFC Championship (for comparison I’d say the Bengals had 2: Chiefs & Bills).

or you could look at it as Philly played in the only division in the NFL to get 3 teams in the Playoffs. 

[Whatever]

(07-03-2023, 02:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Can't speak to others but I spoke to individual success for Hurts. Folks just cannot dismiss the fact that the team went 14-1 with him starting and 0-2 with him out. Ther's a great chance if Hurts doesn't get hurt (see what I did) he's the NFL MVP. While he was hurt he still missed fewer games than JC last year. 

While missing 2 games last year the kid had over 4,400 total yards of offense last year, 35 TDs, a passer rating of over 100. 

In the biggest game in his career, he had 374 total yards of offense, 4 TDs, and a passer rating of over 103.

It's OK if JC is the 2nd best player in the NFL to wear #1, but after last year 99.9% of NFL fans would give #1 to Jalen Hurts. 

The road game against Dallas that Hurts missed was Philly's toughest matchup all year and it was still a one possession game with his backup in.  Most experts said Mahomes was going to win MVP regardless.  

Hurts deserves full marks for his SB performance, however, people forget that he was held to under 200 yards of total offense in the Divisional round and NFCCG.  He has a career playoff passer rating of 87.7 and averages 45.5 rushing yards/game.  

We can also play the injury game with Chase, especially considering he was roasting guys with a hip fracture before he ever missed time.

[*bfine32*]

(07-03-2023, 03:44 PM)Whatever Wrote: The road game against Dallas that Hurts missed was Philly's toughest matchup all year and it was still a one possession game with his backup in.  Most experts said Mahomes was going to win MVP regardless.  

Hurts deserves full marks for his SB performance, however, people forget that he was held to under 200 yards of total offense in the Divisional round and NFCCG.  He has a career playoff passer rating of 87.7 and averages 45.5 rushing yards/game.  

We can also play the injury game with Chase, especially considering he was roasting guys with a hip fracture before he ever missed time.

I get it, You like Chase. Just understand 99.9% of NFL fans would take the starting QB that had an outstanding year and led his team to the Superbowl over the with the 17th most yards, 14th most receptions, and 6th most TDs in the NFL last year. 

[Whatever]

(07-03-2023, 04:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I get it, You like Chase. Just understand 99.9% of NFL fans would take the starting QB that had an outstanding year and led his team to the Superbowl over the with the 17th most yards, 14th most receptions, and 6th most TDs in the NFL last year. 

Fans will remember for decades the classic QB duels Hurts had against Daniel Jones and a literally one-armed Brock Purdy in the playoffs.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

QB's play the most important position, so I understand Hurts. But I have to be a homer for my dude Ja'Marr Chase.

Just the way it is, and Chase has been fantastic his entire career, Hurts was fantastic this last year with the best OL in
the league in front of him with a good running game and a damn good Defense. That team is built to win and if the QB
doesn't play good enough to win a ton he isn't getting the job done.

Chase changes how entire teams think, he is a very special player and would take him over any other WR in the NFL.

[*bfine32*]

(07-03-2023, 04:52 PM)Whatever Wrote: Fans will remember for decades the classic QB duels Hurts had against Daniel Jones and a literally one-armed Brock Purdy in the playoffs.  

I think you accidentally left out a Post-Season game from last year. 

[*bfine32*]

A hypothetical for the group.

Roger Goodall makes a rule that the Steelers get Joe Burrow and we get Andy back because it's only fair.

He does say you can keep Ja'Marr Chase or trade him for Jalen Hurts. What do you do?

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-03-2023, 05:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: A hypothetical for the group.

Roger Goodall makes a rule that the Steelers get Joe Burrow and we get Andy back because it's only fair.

He does say you can keep Ja'Marr Chase or trade him for Jalen Hurts. What do you do?

Become a fan of another team. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

Again, it’s hard to know what this is based off from just a picture in the OP. But “best player at that #” sounds like exactly that. Not best player from just last year.

Chase has been a 2nd Team All Pro and 2 x Pro Bowler.

Hurts has been a 2nd Team All Pro and a 1 x Pro Bowler.

With Chase still making it last season despite missing 4 games and not putting up huge numbers it kind of proves it’s not just coming from people in Louisiana and Cincinnati.

[*bfine32*]

(07-03-2023, 05:27 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Become a fan of another team. 

The team with Burrow? 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-03-2023, 05:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: A hypothetical for the group.

Roger Goodall makes a rule that the Steelers get Joe Burrow and we get Andy back because it's only fair.

He does say you can keep Ja'Marr Chase or trade him for Jalen Hurts. What do you do?

Making us picture Joe Burrow in a Steelers uniform should be a ban worthy offense!

[Hammerstripes]

(07-02-2023, 07:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Jalen Hurts just went 14-1 as a QB, led his team to the Super Bowl, and should have been the 2nd player ever to win Super Bowl MVP in a losing effort. No one outside of Cincy or Louisiana would give Chase the nod over Hurts

It didn't say the most valuable, but the best.

Hurts finally had a great year.  Chase has had 2 and he's a top 3-5 guy at his position.  Hurts isn't that guy yet.

[Hammerstripes]

(07-03-2023, 09:56 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Regarding the best #1, you have to go with the talented QB.

No, you really don't.  He's had one great year and that's it.

If you ask me who plays their position better - Chase or Hurts - it's Chase.

[Hammerstripes]

(07-03-2023, 04:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I get it, You like Chase. Just understand 99.9% of NFL fans would take the starting QB that had an outstanding year and led his team to the Superbowl over the with the 17th most yards, 14th most receptions, and 6th most TDs in the NFL last year. 

Maybe.  There's a lot of fans out there that will take into account more than 1 year as well as who plays the position better.

Hurts was average to below average until this past year.  If we are basing this off of one year, then sure, you can go Hurts since Chase was injured last year.

[*bfine32*]

(07-03-2023, 05:43 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Maybe.  There's a lot of fans out there that will take into account more than 1 year as well as who plays the position better.

Hurts was average to below average until this past year.  If we are basing this off of one year, then sure, you can go Hurts since Chase was injured last year.

It's fun to discuss in the off-season and I doubt JC would get too many votes on a Eagles website.

Hopefully next year one of the things we can point at as a bonus for JC is a record-setting performance in the Super Bowl.