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(07-15-2023, 01:10 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Rudi Johnson was cooked after his age 27 season.
Chris Johnson was never good after his age 27 season.
Larry Johnson was never good after his age 27 season.
Ezekiel Elliott seems cooked after his age 26 season.
LeSean McCoy was never the same RB after his age 28 season.
Marshawn Lynch was never good after his age 28 season.
DeMarco Murray was never good after his age 28 season.
Maurice Jones-Drew's last good season was his age 26 season.
Ray Rice was done after his age 25 season.
Arian Foster was done after his age 28 season.
LaDainian Tomlinson was a much much worse RB after his age 28 season.
Jamal Lewis was never good again after his age 28 season.
Just pulling names out there, but the list of RBs who are still as good past age 28 isn't huge and it just starts dwindling even quicker from there. 28 is basically the end of the line for a lot of RBs. There are obviously some exceptions, but even those guys normally got worse, they just had a lot more room to decline before passing the line to becoming terrible. Joe Mixon is already at that line and has no more room go to down.
- - - - -
Except when it comes to effort in pass blocking. 
E Smith 32
W Payton 33
F Gore 33
A Peterson 33
C Martin 31
T Thomas 30
F Taylor 31
C Dillon 30
R Watters 31
E George 30
All these guys had 1000+ seasons after their 30th birthday. You're absolutely right that the list of guys with longevity and production is short. Mixon just needs to be part of a RBBC and i don't see why he can't get at least 800-1100 yds per season for the next 3.
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Details:
— Joe Mixon took a $4.39M pay cut this year and a $4.67M pay cut next year.
— The 2023 base is $5.51M and he can make an extra $2M per year in incentives.
— This opens up the possibility of him sticking around next year, too.
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(07-14-2023, 08:57 PM)pally Wrote: Joe's not stupid...a restructured contract in Cincy is more than he'll get on the street...if he got anything
I have no idea what the amount of the contract is and I don't care. Here is the only thing I care about....
WE HAVE MIXON
That is a heck of a One, Two Punch. Burrow to Chase, Higgins, Boyd or Whoever....and still able to run the ball with Mixon and the other RB's.
The resigning of Mixon then is no small thing. Much needed for Bengals to stay on their goal of a Super Bowl WIN.
GO BENGALS and here 5 Tigers as O Line
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(07-14-2023, 08:57 PM)pally Wrote: Joe's not stupid...a restructured contract in Cincy is more than he'll get on the street...if he got anything
I have no idea what the amount of the contract is and I don't care. Here is the only thing I care about....
WE HAVE MIXON
That is a heck of a One, Two Punch. Burrow to Chase, Higgins, Boyd or Whoever....and still able to run the ball with Mixon and the other RB's.
The resigning of Mixon then is no small thing. Much needed for Bengals to stay on their goal of a Super Bowl WIN. Also much needed after Perrine to Denver. Also much needed so Burrow doesn't have to pass every play, and defenses tee off and Burrow career injured due to no run game.
GO BENGALS and here 5 Tigers as O Line
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(07-14-2023, 09:05 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If it's ACTUALLY a restructure, I hate it because it means you're committing to a player for next year as well.
If it's him taking a pay cut, I like it but not as much as if they had replaced him during FA or even done this paycut before/during FA so they could have added more talent with the savings.
I kind of share your disappointment with the extra year of commitment, when he could have been totally off the books next year. However, I will wait & see the final numbers first.
It feels like a hedge for both sides. We still lost Perine & don't know what Brown will look like yet. So we get Mixon locked in for another year at a discounted price, and Joe gets two seasons of income where he'd probably have been cut (this year or next) without it.
As for the $$$ saved, I have to think that is for extensions rather than FAs. This shouod put us around $20 mil in cap space this year, with extensions for Burrow, Tee, and Wilson yet to do. And with Reader, Chido, and Boyd FAs pending next year, and Chase extension eligible. I think it goes into the extension piggy bank rather than to sign a FA. Thiugh a little more wiggle room might be useful come the fall.
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(07-14-2023, 09:05 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If it's ACTUALLY a restructure, I hate it because it means you're committing to a player for next year as well.
If it's him taking a pay cut, I like it but not as much as if they had replaced him during FA or even done this paycut before/during FA so they could have added more talent with the savings.
Same way I feel, well said. 
(07-14-2023, 09:06 PM)Au165 Wrote: The rumor is it’s 6 with 8 possible in incentives. This puts him right in line with his production and I’m really happy to see it.
Same here, this is what I was waiting for. Very happy with this. 
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(07-15-2023, 09:54 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I've always been a fan of JM on the field and his TD-coin flip was a moment for Bengal lore. It's the off-field I have issue with.
As to the "reported" $6-8 Mil, I'd rather have kept Perine for $3Mil.
Agreed
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I'm expecting Logan Wilson will be the next contract extention
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(07-15-2023, 01:11 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Same way I feel, well said.
Same here, this is what I was waiting for. Very happy with this.
You say well said, but I don't get what he said. How would losing Mixon in free agency be better, and the idea of trying to add a more talented RB than Mixon, I'm not sure there is one out there to add better than Mixon. Plus, I was told Mixon wasn't even up for free agency.
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(07-15-2023, 03:29 PM)kevin Wrote: You say well said, but I don't get what he said. How would losing Mixon in free agency be better, and the idea of trying to add a more talented RB than Mixon, I'm not sure there is one out there to add better than Mixon. Plus, I was told Mixon wasn't even up for free agency.
He said it better be a restructure that is also a pay cut and allows us to move on after this year if he doesn't improve.
Dalvin Cook IS better than Mixon by a large amount and is out there and he is actually willing to pass protect. Same with Zeke Elliott
as far as pass protection goes with Zeke.
Mixon isn't up for FA for a couple years you are correct.
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(07-15-2023, 09:12 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I know I know you think ownership/staff screwed up again. Big shock
Nice failure to read because you were so excited to reply to me. It was a paycut, not a restructure as initially posted, so I didn't think they screwed up because I said I liked it. I just didn't want a restructure because I didn't want to give Mixon a larger dead cap number in 2024. They didn't.
My whole post that you replied to was after 28 seems to be where a cliff often is for RBs, and Mixon is heading into his 28, not after. You'd think someone who researched and studied my posting history so extensively would at least read what he's replying to.
RBs who are 28 aren't in their prime. RBs are a position where their primes are much earlier.
Last 10 Years of 1st Team All-Pro RBs
Josh Jacobs: age 24 season
Jonathan Taylor: age 22 season
Derrick Henry: age 26 season
Christian McCaffrey: age 23 season
Todd Gurley: age 24 season
Toddy Gurley: age 23 season
Ezekiel Elliott: age 21 season
Doug Martin: age 26 season / Adrian Peterson: age 30 season
DeMarco Murray: age 26 season / Le'Veon Bell: age 22 season
LeSean McCoy: age 25 season / Jamaal Charles: age 27 season
Average age: ~24.5 years old
If a RB is 28, they're not in their prime. That was the whole point of the post.
(07-15-2023, 11:13 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: E Smith 32
W Payton 33
F Gore 33
A Peterson 33
C Martin 31
T Thomas 30
F Taylor 31
C Dillon 30
R Watters 31
E George 30
All these guys had 1000+ seasons after their 30th birthday. You're absolutely right that the list of guys with longevity and production is short. Mixon just needs to be part of a RBBC and i don't see why he can't get at least 800-1100 yds per season for the next 3.
A lot of HoFers on that list. If you added Joe Mixon to that list, would you feel like he belonged? 3 years is a loooong time in the NFL for RBs. All those guys had much further to decline because they started at a much higher level.
In baseball terms...
It's kind of like how Joey Votto was 55-75% above average offensively in his prime. So in 2021, being 39% above average WAS heavy decline but still good. Meanwhile Brandon Phillips was around 5% above average offensively in his prime. So when he declined a little entering his 30s, he immediately became below average.
Mixon is a career 4.1 YPC RB, and never above 4.1 over the last 4 years. You can't decline much more from that and still be any good. I think he'll be okayish this year (minus pass blocking) but I just can't see him being effective in 2024 let alone 2025.
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(07-15-2023, 04:09 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Mixon is a career 4.1 YPC RB, and never above 4.1 over the last 4 years. You can't decline much more from that and still be any good. I think he'll be okayish this year (minus pass blocking) but I just can't see him being effective in 2024 let alone 2025.
Exactly
I'd say it's way more likely at best Mixon is a RB #2 for some club in 24-25. Mixon has never been a true break away threat. That's not going to chnage. And his blocking is the very bottom of the barrel.
This season is likely his last hurrah.
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(07-15-2023, 04:23 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Exactly
I'd say it's way more likely at best Mixon is a RB #2 for some club in 24-25. Mixon has never been a true break away threat. That's not going to chnage. And his blocking is the very bottom of the barrel.
This season is likely his last hurrah.
Doesn't help him getting concussions like he did last season either. I cannot wait to see what Chase Brown does this year behind the
same OL. We saw what Perine did last year and it was arguably better except for the Carolina game where he went off. But that is the
thing with Mixon, he just isn't consistent in his play at all. He will have one of those blow up games and then have 37 yards the next
week. It is perplexing.
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(07-15-2023, 04:09 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Nice failure to read because you were so excited to reply to me. It was a paycut, not a restructure as initially posted, so I didn't think they screwed up because I said I liked it. I just didn't want a restructure because I didn't want to give Mixon a larger dead cap number in 2024. They didn't.
My whole post that you replied to was after 28 seems to be where a cliff often is for RBs, and Mixon is heading into his 28, not after. You'd think someone who researched and studied my posting history so extensively would at least read what he's replying to.
RBs who are 28 aren't in their prime. RBs are a position where their primes are much earlier.
Last 10 Years of 1st Team All-Pro RBs
Josh Jacobs: age 24 season
Jonathan Taylor: age 22 season
Derrick Henry: age 26 season
Christian McCaffrey: age 23 season
Todd Gurley: age 24 season
Toddy Gurley: age 23 season
Ezekiel Elliott: age 21 season
Doug Martin: age 26 season / Adrian Peterson: age 30 season
DeMarco Murray: age 26 season / Le'Veon Bell: age 22 season
LeSean McCoy: age 25 season / Jamaal Charles: age 27 season
Average age: ~24.5 years old
If a RB is 28, they're not in their prime. That was the whole point of the post.
A lot of HoFers on that list. If you added Joe Mixon to that list, would you feel like he belonged? 3 years is a loooong time in the NFL for RBs. All those guys had much further to decline because they started at a much higher level.
In baseball terms...
It's kind of like how Joey Votto was 55-75% above average offensively in his prime. So in 2021, being 39% above average WAS heavy decline but still good. Meanwhile Brandon Phillips was around 5% above average offensively in his prime. So when he declined a little entering his 30s, he immediately became below average.
Mixon is a career 4.1 YPC RB, and never above 4.1 over the last 4 years. You can't decline much more from that and still be any good. I think he'll be okayish this year (minus pass blocking) but I just can't see him being effective in 2024 let alone 2025.
That's the only thing i disagree with. I can see him being what he was last year for the next 2 to 3 years. He may not get that chance with the Bengals though, depending on how the other guys perform this year and what's available in FA and the draft next year.
I just feel that with the physical shape he's in right now, he could sustain what he's doing for a few more years.
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(07-15-2023, 04:09 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Nice failure to read because you were so excited to reply to me. It was a paycut, not a restructure as initially posted, so I didn't think they screwed up because I said I liked it. I just didn't want a restructure because I didn't want to give Mixon a larger dead cap number in 2024. They didn't.
My whole post that you replied to was after 28 seems to be where a cliff often is for RBs, and Mixon is heading into his 28, not after. You'd think someone who researched and studied my posting history so extensively would at least read what he's replying to.
RBs who are 28 aren't in their prime. RBs are a position where their primes are much earlier.
Last 10 Years of 1st Team All-Pro RBs
Josh Jacobs: age 24 season
Jonathan Taylor: age 22 season
Derrick Henry: age 26 season
Christian McCaffrey: age 23 season
Todd Gurley: age 24 season
Toddy Gurley: age 23 season
Ezekiel Elliott: age 21 season
Doug Martin: age 26 season / Adrian Peterson: age 30 season
DeMarco Murray: age 26 season / Le'Veon Bell: age 22 season
LeSean McCoy: age 25 season / Jamaal Charles: age 27 season
Average age: ~24.5 years old
If a RB is 28, they're not in their prime. That was the whole point of the post.
A lot of HoFers on that list. If you added Joe Mixon to that list, would you feel like he belonged? 3 years is a loooong time in the NFL for RBs. All those guys had much further to decline because they started at a much higher level.
In baseball terms...
It's kind of like how Joey Votto was 55-75% above average offensively in his prime. So in 2021, being 39% above average WAS heavy decline but still good. Meanwhile Brandon Phillips was around 5% above average offensively in his prime. So when he declined a little entering his 30s, he immediately became below average.
Mixon is a career 4.1 YPC RB, and never above 4.1 over the last 4 years. You can't decline much more from that and still be any good. I think he'll be okayish this year (minus pass blocking) but I just can't see him being effective in 2024 let alone 2025.
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(07-14-2023, 10:13 PM)Housh Wrote: I mean it’s not like he’s done. He’s probably got 2-3 solid years in him even if they are struggle years where he’s injured a good amount.
He was pretty shit last year in pass pro and hitting holes but he was still great at falling forward
It is his blocking and how valuable Burrow is to the team that has me concerned with two more years of Mixon more so than his running.
Believe the O-line will be so good that any NFL RB would run adequately behind it. Yet the Bengals are a passing team and require blocking more often than running.
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(07-15-2023, 06:26 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Most efficient according to who and by what standards? Because even if you ignore the first 4 weeks where Mixon was terrible, he still doesn't have the most yards, the most TDs, the most YPC, didn't get the most yards after contact, didn't break the most tackles. By what method was he the "most efficient" running back in football?
We get it, you have Sooner in your name. You are a Sooners fan. Joe Mixon was a Sooner. You are weirdly obsessed with me. Get over it.
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(07-14-2023, 09:05 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If it's ACTUALLY a restructure, I hate it
If it's him taking a pay cut, I like it but not as much as if they had replaced him during FA or even done this paycut before/during FA so they could have added more talent with the savings.
(07-15-2023, 04:09 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Nice failure to read because you were so excited to reply to me. It was a paycut, not a restructure as initially posted, so I didn't think they screwed up because I said I liked it. I just didn't want a restructure because I didn't want to give Mixon a larger dead cap number in 2024. They didn't.
My whole post that you replied to was after 28 seems to be where a cliff often is for RBs, and Mixon is heading into his 28, not after. You'd think someone who researched and studied my posting history so extensively would at least read what he's replying to.
RBs who are 28 aren't in their prime. RBs are a position where their primes are much earlier.
Last 10 Years of 1st Team All-Pro RBs
Josh Jacobs: age 24 season
Jonathan Taylor: age 22 season
Derrick Henry: age 26 season
Christian McCaffrey: age 23 season
Todd Gurley: age 24 season
Toddy Gurley: age 23 season
Ezekiel Elliott: age 21 season
Doug Martin: age 26 season / Adrian Peterson: age 30 season
DeMarco Murray: age 26 season / Le'Veon Bell: age 22 season
LeSean McCoy: age 25 season / Jamaal Charles: age 27 season
Average age: ~24.5 years old
If a RB is 28, they're not in their prime. That was the whole point of the post.
A lot of HoFers on that list. If you added Joe Mixon to that list, would you feel like he belonged? 3 years is a loooong time in the NFL for RBs. All those guys had much further to decline because they started at a much higher level.
In baseball terms...
It's kind of like how Joey Votto was 55-75% above average offensively in his prime. So in 2021, being 39% above average WAS heavy decline but still good. Meanwhile Brandon Phillips was around 5% above average offensively in his prime. So when he declined a little entering his 30s, he immediately became below average.
Mixon is a career 4.1 YPC RB, and never above 4.1 over the last 4 years. You can't decline much more from that and still be any good. I think he'll be okayish this year (minus pass blocking) but I just can't see him being effective in 2024 let alone 2025.
LMAO my reading comprehension is fine yours not so much. Everybody says it’s a restructure and you said you hated a restructure
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[quote='Soonerpeace' pid='1370692' dateline='1689458288']
This is getting pathetic.
"If it's him taking a pay cut, I like it"
That's me saying I liked their move of getting him to take a paycut.
That's not even the post you replied to initially, either. You replied to my list post, which was directly a reply to rfaulk saying 28 was his prime and 3 more years.
Seriously, what's your problem?
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