Mike Brown presser

[THE PISTONS]

(07-24-2023, 11:03 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Williams makes $12.5 and Collins $9. One of those guys will be gone after this year, maybe both. We'll start there. 

Boyd ($10 mil) & Chido ($8 mil) are guys who will possibly go if they do not take a haircut. We already have drafted potential replacements. 

For me, Reader is foundational and will be back. No replacement for him. 

Wilson will get extended if it is reasonable. But we don't have a replacement, though ADG is decent. 

The Mixon pay cut thing too helped some.

What it comes down to is having less vets and relying on more rookie contract guys.

When you have a Top 5 QB, that should work though.

We're also saving money at the TE position. We have to be among the lowest in the league on spend there.

[impactplaya]

If the Bengals don't retain Tee on a long term deal
Then I bet you anything the Browns or Ravens
Would swoop him up before the ink would
Dry on the dotted line.
The Browns have made a history of signing
Bengals players that supposedly the Brown family
Could not afford.

[Soonerpeace]

It’s up to Tee. Luckily Joe and Chase will make some sacrifices. If Tee does too it will all work out. But Mgt./Zac want it to happen.

[Sled21]

(07-25-2023, 10:48 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: It’s up to Tee. Luckily Joe and Chase will make some sacrifices. If Tee does too it will all work out. But Mgt./Zac want it to happen.

Somehow when it comes right down to it and mgt. lays it out, I don't see Burrow or Chase demanding so much Tee has to be let go. Friends sacrifice for friends, and after a certain point it's just numbers. These guys will all make more than they could ever spend. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-24-2023, 10:36 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Boyd (Charlie Jones), Henderickson (Myles Murphy) Williams (Orlando Brown) and Chido (CTB or DJ Turner) already have their replacements on the team. 

This is disingenuous. You can throw any name in there anywhere. You can replace them all with 7th rounders or you can replace them with young, high picks. The fact of the matter is, you don't know what you're getting with the replacement. 

You can't just throw a random name in there, say "fixed!" and assume there's no drop off in talent and production. 

Young guys don't cost that much money. Talent and production costs a lot of money. 

[sandwedge]

(07-25-2023, 10:48 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: It’s up to Tee. Luckily Joe and Chase will make some sacrifices. If Tee does too it will all work out. But Mgt./Zac want it to happen.

That could be what is happening now. FO and agents are working to get everyone's deal done and it's fair and equitable for all involved. Not saying it's a hometown discount or anything like that, it's just a big picture thing. I wouldn't be surprised if we already don't have some kind of non-contractual agreement with Chase's camp. These 3 players want to play together..

[THE PISTONS]

(07-25-2023, 11:25 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: This is disingenuous. You can throw any name in there anywhere. You can replace them all with 7th rounders or you can replace them with young, high picks. The fact of the matter is, you don't know what you're getting with the replacement. 

You can't just throw a random name in there, say "fixed!" and assume there's no drop off in talent and production. 

Young guys don't cost that much money. Talent and production costs a lot of money. 

It's what killed us letting Whitworth go. They drafted Ced and Fisher and they both flopped.

There's certainly a risk to it.

[THE PISTONS]

(07-25-2023, 11:57 AM)sandwedge Wrote: That could be what is happening now. FO and agents are working to get everyone's deal done and it's fair and equitable for all involved. Not saying it's a hometown discount or anything like that, it's just a big picture thing. I wouldn't be surprised if we already don't have some kind of non-contractual agreement with Chase's camp. These 3 players want to play together..

I think they're going to get contracts inline with what their peers got.

I doubt they are talking to Chase about a contract. There will be 2-3 more years of WR contracts signed between now and when Chase signs his deal. He'll want money on par with that.

I think these guys like playing together, but they also want to get paid. Mike Brown was fairly clear about that during the press conference. Now, the contract could be structured in a cap friendly way.

[sandwedge]

(07-25-2023, 12:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think they're going to get contracts inline with what their peers got.

I doubt they are talking to Chase about a contract. There will be 2-3 more years of WR contracts signed between now and when Chase signs his deal. He'll want money on par with that.

I think these guys like playing together, but they also want to get paid. Mike Brown was fairly clear about that during the press conference. Now, the contract could be structured in a cap friendly way.

That's why I said, fair and equitable. 

[Whatever]

FWIW, I've seen it out there that Joe's camp and Herbert's camp are basically waiting for the other to sign first. Joe's camp wants the Herbert deal to set his floor while Herbert's camp wants the Burrow deal to set his ceiling.

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-25-2023, 12:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think they're going to get contracts inline with what their peers got.

I doubt they are talking to Chase about a contract. There will be 2-3 more years of WR contracts signed between now and when Chase signs his deal. He'll want money on par with that.

I think these guys like playing together, but they also want to get paid. Mike Brown was fairly clear about that during the press conference. Now, the contract could be structured in a cap friendly way.

Chase will be eligible for an extension next year, and i'm sure he'll want an extension...next year. 

[Au165]

(07-25-2023, 12:39 PM)Whatever Wrote: FWIW, I've seen it out there that Joe's camp and Herbert's camp are basically waiting for the other to sign first.  Joe's camp wants the Herbert deal to set his floor while Herbert's camp wants the Burrow deal to set his ceiling.

I was just told by one of the people I know who is inside the league that the expectation is Herbert will sign this week and Burrow to follow quickly after. Things can always change but they seemed pretty confident about it.

[Essex Johnson]

So what percentage of yearly salary would you expect Burrow chase and Higgins would make up? I like what KC did they traded Hill knowing His contract would limit them after signing Mahomes and Kelce plus faith in the ability of Mahomesand scored with draft picks to fill holes and use $$ to keep oline . They win SB this year without Hill .. I like that formula better than too much $$ in WR room and lack of draft picks to fill holes as we don't resign people anyway.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-24-2023, 01:35 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Completely disagree.  The cap is going up roughly 10% per year.  If they want Higgins, Chase and Burrow long term, it's not going to be hard to accomplish - especially if they structure the contracts in the right manner.  

I'd be more concerned about guys like Logan Wilson not being able to be resigned.

The salary cap doesn't average 10% per year.

Salary increase percentage by year over the past decade:
2023 - 7.9% increase
2022 - 24% increase (this was the recovery from COVID decrease the year before)
2021 - 8% decrease (dropped due to COVID)
2020 - 5.3% increase
2019 - 6.2% increase
2018 - 6.1% increase
2017 - 7.5% increase
2016 - 8.3% increase
2015 - 7.7% increase
2014 - 7.6% increase

Realistically, it's between 6-8% increase per year.

While yes, it will likely be possible to afford Higgins, that's assuming most other guys don't also expect/demand pretty big bumps too.
It's going to be inevitable that the team will not be able to retain some player(s) due to cap limitations.
The question is...is Higgins worth keeping over someone on defense, OL, etc?
We might end up seeing someone at (one of) those positions depart because the team chose to invest in Higgins instead.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-25-2023, 02:11 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So what percentage of yearly salary would you expect Burrow chase and Higgins would make up? I like what KC did they traded Hill knowing His contract would limit them after signing Mahomes and Kelce plus faith in the ability of Mahomesand scored with draft picks to fill holes and use $$ to keep oline . They win SB this year without Hill .. I like that formula better than too much $$ in WR room and lack of draft picks to fill holes as we don't resign people anyway.

The Chiefs I think showed a good model.

You pay the following once you have a franchise QB that is coming up on a veteran deal:
- QB
- Top pass catcher
- OL
- 2 pass rushers
- Few other key defensive players, likely at least one defensive back

Fill in the rest with cheaper vets and draft picks.

[impactplaya]

(07-25-2023, 02:11 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So what percentage of yearly salary would you expect Burrow chase and Higgins would make up? I like what KC did they traded Hill knowing His contract would limit them after signing Mahomes and Kelce plus faith in the ability of Mahomesand scored with draft picks to fill holes and use $$ to keep oline . They win SB this year without Hill .. I like that formula better than too much $$ in WR room and lack of draft picks to fill holes as we don't resign people anyway.

Just because the Chiefs reached the SB without Hill
Doesn't mean that formula automatically applies to 
The Bengals regarding Higgins. 
If Tyler Boyd doesn't get hurt vs the Chiefs, the Bengals beat the Chiefs. Boyd was eating up
The Chiefs secondary to the tune 2 catches 41 yds
.
Mahomes better hope guys like Sky Moore 
And Rasheed Rice really pan out and develop this
Year. Plus not having Bienemy can't be discounted
Or looked over. And too boot Mahomes doesnt have Orlando Brown at LT. They have a bum from Jville. The Chiefs are going the bargain bin
Route at WR and it might come back to bite this year.

[Essex Johnson]

(07-25-2023, 02:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The Chiefs I think showed a good model.

You pay the following once you have a franchise QB that is coming up on a veteran deal:
- QB
- Top pass catcher
- OL
- 2 pass rushers
- Few other key defensive players, likely at least one defensive back

Fill in the rest with cheaper vets and draft picks.

i think many great QBs did well with a top end WR, solid Oline and a running game... plus a defense that might not be top 10 but middle of road.  The key if we don;t resign Higgins is to get a good trade value and score with some of the draft picks

[Soonerpeace]

(07-25-2023, 02:56 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Just because the Chiefs reached the SB without Hill
Doesn't mean that formula automatically applies to 
The Bengals regarding Higgins. 
If Tyler Boyd doesn't get hurt vs the Chiefs, the Bengals beat the Chiefs. Boyd was eating up
The Chiefs secondary to the tune 2 catches 41 yds
.
Mahomes better hope guys like Sky Moore 
And Rasheed Rice really pan out and develop this
Year. Plus not having Bienemy can't be discounted
Or looked over. And too boot Mahomes doesnt have Orlando Brown at LT. They have a bum from Jville. The Chiefs are going the bargain bin
Route at WR and it might come back to bite this year.

Yep I don’t get the love fest for KC like everything they do turns to gold.I was watching the AFC championship on TV just the other night. We punt to them with 39 seconds left they get an uncharacteristic 27 yard punt return. The punt goes 54 yards to their 18. Then of course the personal foul. We’ve beat them 3-4. I would like to have played them with 3 OL out. KC may have their own Tackle issues this year. They’ve got some IOL to pony up for soon. Their backs would struggle with our OL too. All the people bagging on Mixon are going to be singing a different tune this season. He’s gonna have room to run.

[Essex Johnson]

(07-25-2023, 02:56 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Just because the Chiefs reached the SB without Hill
Doesn't mean that formula automatically applies to 
The Bengals regarding Higgins. 
If Tyler Boyd doesn't get hurt vs the Chiefs, the Bengals beat the Chiefs. Boyd was eating up
The Chiefs secondary to the tune 2 catches 41 yds
.
Mahomes better hope guys like Sky Moore 
And Rasheed Rice really pan out and develop this
Year. Plus not having Bienemy can't be discounted
Or looked over. And too boot Mahomes doesnt have Orlando Brown at LT. They have a bum from Jville. The Chiefs are going the bargain bin
Route at WR and it might come back to bite this year.

Well the formula got them a SB, so you can't say they were hurt yet plus the goal was more picks, free up cap and get younger think that is the goal, if we don;t get a SB in the 4 to 5 years with Higgins and Burrow why not do the same. especially if it probably hampers the future will Burrow .
.. 
https://www.si.com/nfl/chiefs/gm-report/lessons-learned-a-year-after-the-kc-chiefs-tyreek-hill-trade-to-miami-dolphins#:~:text=The%20Chiefs%20traded%20All%2DPro,worked%20out%20for%20both%20teams.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-25-2023, 03:08 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: i think many great QBs did well with a top end WR, solid Oline and a running game... plus a defense that might not be top 10 but middle of road.  The key if we don;t resign Higgins is to get a good trade value and score with some of the draft picks

If the Bengals don't re-sign Higgins, it likely will result in just a comp pick, as the Bengals won't trade him midseason his final year I don't think.

The Chiefs (and older teams like the Patriots) showed you don't need to pay a lot for an effective running game.
Just get a collection of draft picks and cheaper veterans.