Bengals pass blockers ranked #2...

[Speedy Thomas]

...from the bottom.

Source is Footballguys, where I get most of my fantasy news.  I don't know if they know up from applesauce about pass blocking, but they do help me win my fantasy leagues more often than not.  The only starting offensive line they have rated below us in pass protection is Carolina.

I look forward to proving them way wrong.  But are they?

2 - Cincinnati Bengals

Starters with pass-blocking grades:

LT Orlando Brown Jr: B+
LG Cordell Volson: C+
OC Ted Karras: C+
RG Alex Cappa: C+
RT Jonah Williams: C+

Every preseason I get the same feedback from fans: my team made this big move. So why aren't they ranked higher? The answer is always the same. Usually, when a team has to make a big move, that's a sign they weren't that good in the first place. The Bengals made a very big move this offseason, bringing in Orlando Brown Jr. from the Kansas City Chiefs via free agency. At left tackle, Brown is a top-tier run blocker and pretty good in pass protection. Brown's arrival (and Jonah Williams moving to right tackle) is the cherry on top of the Bengals' line two-year rebuild. And in the run game, there's a lot to like, ranking 16th overall.

But outside of Brown, the group has documented problems in pass blocking. Jonah Williams gave up nine sacks last season, but it should be noted he was playing with two dislocated knees. This is a testament to his toughness, but it's natural to wonder how he responds this season. At right guard, Alex Cappa is a beast in the run game and is known for his strength. But Cappa's pass protection isn't anything to write home about. The story at left guard is worse, where Cordell Volson grades out as below average, beatable in both phases. Center Ted Karras spent most of his career as a backup in New England, and while he provides veteran leadership, he's never ranked above average as a starter. La'el Collins is a talented athlete, but he's still on PUP, rehabbing an ACL tear suffered in Week 16. Yes, Orlando Brown's addition helps. But all of this adds up to a decent run-blocking group with questions at pass-blocking at four of the five starting spots.

[TheFan]

(08-17-2023, 09:26 AM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: ...from the bottom.

Source is Footballguys, where I get most of my fantasy news.  I don't know if they know up from applesauce about pass blocking, but they do help me win my fantasy leagues more often than not.  The only starting offensive line they have rated below us in pass protection is Carolina.

I look forward to proving them way wrong.  But are they?

2 - Cincinnati Bengals

Starters with pass-blocking grades:

LT Orlando Brown Jr: B+
LG Cordell Volson: C+
OC Ted Karras: C+
RG Alex Cappa: C+
RT Jonah Williams: C+

Every preseason I get the same feedback from fans: my team made this big move. So why aren't they ranked higher? The answer is always the same. Usually, when a team has to make a big move, that's a sign they weren't that good in the first place. The Bengals made a very big move this offseason, bringing in Orlando Brown Jr. from the Kansas City Chiefs via free agency. At left tackle, Brown is a top-tier run blocker and pretty good in pass protection. Brown's arrival (and Jonah Williams moving to right tackle) is the cherry on top of the Bengals' line two-year rebuild. And in the run game, there's a lot to like, ranking 16th overall.

But outside of Brown, the group has documented problems in pass blocking. Jonah Williams gave up nine sacks last season, but it should be noted he was playing with two dislocated knees. This is a testament to his toughness, but it's natural to wonder how he responds this season. At right guard, Alex Cappa is a beast in the run game and is known for his strength. But Cappa's pass protection isn't anything to write home about. The story at left guard is worse, where Cordell Volson grades out as below average, beatable in both phases. Center Ted Karras spent most of his career as a backup in New England, and while he provides veteran leadership, he's never ranked above average as a starter. La'el Collins is a talented athlete, but he's still on PUP, rehabbing an ACL tear suffered in Week 16. Yes, Orlando Brown's addition helps. But all of this adds up to a decent run-blocking group with questions at pass-blocking at four of the five starting spots.

And yet it's still probably the best like Joe has been behind...

[phil413]

Not sure what the grade scale is but it would be surprising if adding these up to a C++ grade is 2nd worst overall. You also have to factor in the chemistry of the interior line since grading individually doesn't account for that. Signing Brown doesnt fix everything, but if like to see PFF even though they aren't absolute.

[Mike M (the other one)]

I would have thought more towards middle of the pack but I guess this is why the play the games.

[CJD]

That would be an average GPA of like 2.50. Not great, but if the second worst student in the school has a 2.5 GPA, that's a pretty good school.

Did he give any Ds or Fs across the league?

[Speedy Thomas]

(08-17-2023, 09:31 AM)TheFan Wrote: And yet it's still probably the best like Joe has been behind...

That's a great point.  Thank God that Joe has great pocket presence.  Imagine how good he would be if he could just set up and throw.  But it's going to be better this year.

[*ochocincos*]

2nd-to-last feels unfairly low. They weren't that bad last year, and Brown improves the unit.

Looking at their PFF pass-blocking grades from last year:
Brown (Chiefs) - 77.2
Volson - 52.9
Karras - 76.2
Cappa - 71.4
Jonah - 63.9

Typically, PFF grades translate roughly to something like...
80 or higher = A (elite)
70-79 = B (above average)
60-69 = C (serviceable)
50-59 = D (below average)
Below 50 = F (please replace me)

So I'd put Karras and Cappa in the B range with Brown, Jonah is a comfortable C, and Volson a D.
I can't imagine having 3 B-level pass blockers and somehow putting the unit 2nd-to-last in pass blocking.

I'd say, realistically until we can see them in action, they are around 20th, give or take a few spots.

[Speedy Thomas]

(08-17-2023, 10:15 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: That would be an average GPA of like 2.50. Not great, but if the second worst student in the school has a 2.5 GPA, that's a pretty good school.

Did he give any Ds or Fs across the league?

Every individual in the bottom 10 got a B or a C.  Four grades of B+, including OBJ.  Cade Mays of Carolina the lowest at a C.  As a former teacher, I think this evaluator was lazy.

https://www.footballguys.com/article/2023-worst-pass-blocking-offensive-lines

[CJD]

(08-17-2023, 11:11 AM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: Every individual in the bottom 10 got a B or a C.  Four grades of B+, including OBJ.  Cade Mays of Carolina the lowest at a C.  As a former teacher, I think this evaluator was lazy.

https://www.footballguys.com/article/2023-worst-pass-blocking-offensive-lines

Yea...the lowest grade being a C for any individual player is poor grading technique. If there are no Ds and Fs, then Cs stop being Cs and become Fs, making C+s Ds and it just makes the whole grading exercise fairly meaningless.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-17-2023, 10:17 AM)ochocincos Wrote: 2nd-to-last feels unfairly low. They weren't that bad last year, and Brown improves the unit.

Looking at their PFF pass-blocking grades from last year:
Brown (Chiefs) - 77.2
Volson - 52.9
Karras - 76.2
Cappa - 71.4
Jonah - 63.9

Typically, PFF grades translate roughly to something like...
80 or higher = A (elite)
70-79 = B (above average)
60-69 = C (serviceable)
50-59 = D (below average)
Below 50 = F (please replace me)

So I'd put Karras and Cappa in the B range with Brown, Jonah is a comfortable C, and Volson a D.
I can't imagine having 3 B-level pass blockers and somehow putting the unit 2nd-to-last in pass blocking.

I'd say, realistically until we can see them in action, they are around 20th, give or take a few spots.

With Jonah at LT and Collins at RT last year, games 3-14, they only gave up 24 sacks in 12 games and Burrow had an NFL best 108 passer rating. 

With OBj at LT and Jonah at RT this year, that production shouldn't be an unrealistic expectation.

[BoomerFan]

Karras and Cappa should definitely be ranked higher. That said, I don't care what they are ranked. I want them to actually come in and do their job and do it well (and for us to have some depth but maybe that isn't in the cards this year).

Around the league finding good offensive linemen is (I'm told) a problem, though some teams definitely do better than others. I don't know if that is a coaching issue or just luck but I still feel like we could be better in finding and developing players.

BTW, the other side of that is we seem to be in an era where defensive lines feast...other than ours. We have some talent but if anything I am more concerned (at this moment) about our defensive line. Remember, an offensive line is generally not rotated. If you have good starters and no one gets hurt you can do well. Defensive lines rotate and we simply have not been getting home against opposing QBs enough.

[Frank Booth]

pretty lazy putting Volson in the same tier as Karras and Cappa in terms of pass pro...

anyways, I'd put the pass protection from this line somewhere between 14-18th

[Daddy-O]

(08-17-2023, 02:02 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: pretty lazy putting Volson in the same tier as Karras and Cappa in terms of pass pro...

anyways, I'd put the pass protection from this line somewhere between 14-18th

Volson's numbers will hopefully improve with a better LT beside him.  Who knows what was going on with having to help out Jonah.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-18-2023, 10:13 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: Volson's numbers will hopefully improve with a better LT beside him.  Who knows what was going on with having to help out Jonah.

This is a worn out narritive that's starting to get a bit silly. A rookie helping out a vet? Volson was getting trucked and missing blocks all on his own early in the year, before Jonah got injured. I doubt he was doing much at all the help Jonah at any point.

[Speedy Thomas]

(08-17-2023, 01:52 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: Karras and Cappa should definitely be ranked higher. That said, I don't care what they are ranked. I want them to actually come in and do their job and do it well (and for us to have some depth but maybe that isn't in the cards this year).

Around the league finding good offensive linemen is (I'm told) a problem, though some teams definitely do better than others. I don't know if that is a coaching issue or just luck but I still feel like we could be better in finding and developing players.

BTW, the other side of that is we seem to be in an era where defensive lines feast...other than ours. We have some talent but if anything I am more concerned (at this moment) about our defensive line. Remember, an offensive line is generally not rotated. If you have good starters and no one gets hurt you can do well. Defensive lines rotate and we simply have not been getting home against opposing QBs enough.

The most athletic bigs seem to find their way to the defensive line.  This starts way back in junior high, and continues into the league.  When I coached high school O-line, I was always gifted the big guys who couldn't run.  OL is an absolutely thankless position.  The best thing that can happen to an OL is if he doesn't screw up and he escapes notice.  Nobody wants to play there, unless they can't play anywhere else.  

[Goalpost]

I know we have preferred the FA route since drafting Joe and protecting him. But I still think we could have prioritized the O-line better.

Since drafting Joe the O-Line picks have been...

Hakeem Adeniji 6th round
Jackson Carman 2nd Round
D'Ante Smith 4th round
Cordell Volson 4th round

We drafted none last year.

[Sled21]

All I had to see was Cappa's grade to know these guys are full of it.

[Frank Booth]

(08-18-2023, 10:13 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: Volson's numbers will hopefully improve with a better LT beside him.  Who knows what was going on with having to help out Jonah.

lazy take

[casear2727]

(08-18-2023, 10:13 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: Volson's numbers will hopefully improve with a better LT beside him.  Who knows what was going on with having to help out Jonah.

A review of Jonah's sacks revealed at least 3 of them, maybe 4, were actually due to issues with Volson (and at least one on Perine).

Jonah had a bad year but he did not impact Volson as much as it was the other way around.

It will be interesting to see Jonah with Cappa next to him instead of Volson.

[NotBigzo]

(08-18-2023, 11:43 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I know we have preferred the FA route since drafting Joe and protecting him.  But I still think we could have prioritized the O-line better.

Since drafting Joe the O-Line picks have been...

Hakeem Adeniji 6th round
Jackson Carman 2nd Round
D'Ante Smith 4th round
Cordell Volson 4th round

We drafted none last year.

Problem with this is that Frank Pollack has ZERO ability to develop and cultivate talent, even if we did draft it early.

His only credit is that he was given the keys to a lambo (Dallas's O-Line) and didn't wreck it. The best we can do is replicate that here by getting proven free-agents with good track records and handing Polack the keys.

That said, seeing pundits and the Bengals org insist that "this guy totally isn't worth getting this early" only to see these players do well on other teams gets really, really old.