PFF OL Grades Through Preseason So Far

[*ochocincos*]

Carman:
101 offensive snaps
1 penalty
0 sacks allowed
6 total pressures allowed
53.3 pass block
70.8 run block
63.2 overall

Smith:
78 offensive snaps
1 penalty
0 sacks allowed
4 total pressures allowed
58.5 pass block
39.0 run block
47.7 overall

Ford:
63 offensive snaps
1 penalty
0 sacks allowed
6 total pressures allowed
24.0 pass block
50.3 run block
34.3 overall

Adeniji:
50 offensive snaps
0 penalties
0 sacks allowed
2 total pressures allowed
63.4 pass block
61.9 run block
64.3 overall

Scharping:
75 offensive snaps
0 penalties
0 sacks allowed
4 total pressures allowed
54.6 pass block
57.0 run block
57.5 overall

Hill:
75 offensive snaps
0 penalties
0 sacks allowed
3 total pressures allowed
64.1 pass block
58.4 run block
61.3 overall

Ben Brown:
52 offensive snaps
1 penalty
0 sacks allowed
3 total pressures allowed
67.0 pass block
56.7 run block
54.0 overall

Kirkland:
78 offensive snaps
3 penalties
0 sacks allowed
2 total pressures allowed
66.6 pass block
57.3 run block
51.0 overall

[tms]

Thanks for posting. Score volatility from game to game is important to me (better yet, series to series), especially when it comes to offensive linemen. I wish that range were presented along with the overall average. Because it's hard to take seriously when guys fluctuate from way low to way high, or vice versa. it's made worse by the fact that many of us take their last game score as gospel. It's like the OL equivalent of fantasy football. I get whiplash from all the flip-flopping since they're the exact same players. They haven't changed that much from last week lol

Until PFF finds a way to incorporate context into individual game scores, I find it hard to put weight into anything but their season average. But maybe that's just me. I'd love to hear how actual OL coaches feel about this scoring system, and whether it's actually used for internal evaluation purposes. Something tells me it isn't... at least not yet. But I don't know.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Surprised Carman's grade is that high after that first game that looked like a debacle of immensities beyond imagination.

He did look better against Atlanta, but didn't think he looked good enough to up his grades that high.

Kirkland had a rough go against a Falcons DT. He needs to get more physical in the run game for sure.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-22-2023, 02:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Surprised Carman's grade is that high after that first game that looked like a debacle of immensities beyond imagination.

He did look better against Atlanta, but didn't think he looked good enough to up his grades that high.

Kirkland had a rough go against a Falcons DT. He needs to get more physical in the run game for sure.

Keep in mind Carman's grade is boosted by his team-best run blocking grade.
He's still been overall just meh as a pass blocker, largely in part to the terrible first game.

Adeniji has been about the best overall OT through preseason while Trey Hill has been about the best overall IOL.

Ford, so far, does not look worth making the roster, if we're being honest.

[Garrus]

Kirkland so far seems to have trouble moving and anchoring. I had some hopes for him but he has looked pretty bad so far if I am being honest. Scharping has looked like our best 2nd string OL so far imo.

[TheFan]

(08-22-2023, 02:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Keep in mind Carman's grade is boosted by his team-best run blocking grade.
He's still been overall just meh as a pass blocker, largely in part to the terrible first game.

Adeniji has been about the best overall OT through preseason while Trey Hill has been about the best overall IOL.

Ford, so far, does not look worth making the roster, if we're being honest.

Are we able to see what Carmans grade is when he played LT? Seems like he's does much better pass blocking on that side in addition to being a plus run blocker. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-22-2023, 03:01 PM)TheFan Wrote: Are we able to see what Carmans grade is when he played LT? Seems like he's does much better pass blocking on that side in addition to being a plus run blocker. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

The starting 5 are locked. Collins is PUP.

That leaves 4-5 spots. And we need multiple G/T backuos and at least 1 at C.

Based on these #s, I'd go:

1.Carman, OT
2. Scharping, G/C
3. Adeniji, OT
-----------
4. T. Hill C/G
-------------

IF I kept 10, and I like the upside/ability of other guys more than our 10th OL (Gunter, Johnson, Basham, D. Davis, S. Jones, Taylor, Morgan, Jackson, etc), I'd go with Smith.

If cut,

Would go through waivers: Carman, Adeniji, T. Hill, Smith, B. Brown, Kirkland.

Would immediately be a FA: Scharping, Ford.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(08-22-2023, 01:54 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Carman:
101 offensive snaps
1 penalty
0 sacks allowed
6 total pressures allowed
53.3 pass block
70.8 run block
63.2 overall

Smith:
78 offensive snaps
1 penalty
0 sacks allowed
4 total pressures allowed
58.5 pass block
39.0 run block
47.7 overall

Ford:
63 offensive snaps
1 penalty
0 sacks allowed
6 total pressures allowed
24.0 pass block
50.3 run block
34.3 overall

Adeniji:
50 offensive snaps
0 penalties
0 sacks allowed
2 total pressures allowed
63.4 pass block
61.9 run block
64.3 overall

Scharping:
75 offensive snaps
0 penalties
0 sacks allowed
4 total pressures allowed
54.6 pass block
57.0 run block
57.5 overall

Hill:
75 offensive snaps
0 penalties
0 sacks allowed
3 total pressures allowed
64.1 pass block
58.4 run block
61.3 overall

Brown:
52 offensive snaps
1 penalty
0 sacks allowed
3 total pressures allowed
67.0 pass block
56.7 run block
54.0 overall

Kirkland:
78 offensive snaps
3 penalties
0 sacks allowed
2 total pressures allowed
66.6 pass block
57.3 run block
51.0 overall

Thanks for this. It helps figure things out. 

Of course, remember Adeniji has been playing later in the games, so he (like Kirkland & Brown)are playing vs worse competition. 

[Frank Booth]

Nice try, pff. Carman has been bad

[007BengalsFan]

(08-22-2023, 02:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Surprised Carman's grade is that high after that first game that looked like a debacle of immensities beyond imagination.

Carman is just better on the left side. Hopefully Pollack doesnt come up with the bright idea to switch him back to the right side. Keep him on the left side and let him develop.

(08-22-2023, 02:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Kirkland had a rough go against a Falcons DT. He needs to get more physical in the run game for sure.

I had hoped Kirkland would come in and be a surprise UDFA being able to make the team. That didnt happen but he has got potential. Put him on the practice squad and hopefully he will get better

[007BengalsFan]

(08-22-2023, 02:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ford, so far, does not look worth making the roster, if we're being honest.

I have never liked the Ford signing.  I said it last week and I will say it again, Ford needs to be the first lineman cut.  He offers nothing.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-22-2023, 02:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Surprised Carman's grade is that high after that first game that looked like a debacle of immensities beyond imagination.

He did look better against Atlanta, but didn't think he looked good enough to up his grades that high.

Kirkland had a rough go against a Falcons DT. He needs to get more physical in the run game for sure.

It didn't, Nate.

People are exaggerating here...

[Joelist]

Carman's grade difference between the first and second games is pretty dramatic and to the good. For some reason he's just a lot better on the left side. It matches what we saw too.

As to the others, Kirkland has indeed had a rough preseason. What's also interesting is the grades don't quite match up to the QBs having plenty of time to throw (which has been the case). As usual, PFF scores are somewhat cryptic.

[jj22]

Has Pollack developed anyone? Sooner we get rid of him and all his practice gadgets, the better.

If this team could at least run the ball then the Offense would be unstoppable, but they can't pass block or run block.

Or develop.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(08-22-2023, 04:08 PM)jj22 Wrote: Has Pollack developed anyone? Sooner we get rid of him and all his practice gadgets, the better.

If this team could at least run the ball then the Offense would be unstoppable, but they can't pass block or run block.

Or develop.

Volson. Jonah? 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-22-2023, 02:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Keep in mind Carman's grade is boosted by his team-best run blocking grade.
He's still been overall just meh as a pass blocker, largely in part to the terrible first game.

Adeniji has been about the best overall OT through preseason while Trey Hill has been about the best overall IOL.

Ford, so far, does not look worth making the roster, if we're being honest.

Yeah, Carman can run block. Adeniji being decent against backups doesn't surprise me. He HAS played against the best all be it 
he sucked in doing so. I hope Adeniji has worked on his anchor a lot, that has always been his problem, he plays on roller skates
far too much for my liking. Trey Hill at least hasn't been getting a ton of penalties from what I have been seeing which has always
been his biggest problem, he is tough to move.

Has Ford played RT at all? I thought that is where he was supposed to be playing?

(08-22-2023, 03:41 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Carman is just better on the left side.  Hopefully Pollack doesnt come up with the bright idea to switch him back to the right side.  Keep him on the left side and let him develop.



I had hoped Kirkland would come in and be a surprise UDFA being able to make the team.  That didnt happen but he has got potential.  Put him on the practice squad and hopefully he will get better

I agree with all of this. The RT experiment should be put to bed, keep Carman at LT and yeah put Kirkland on the practice 
squad and develop him. He is big and strong and has potential.

(08-22-2023, 03:59 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: It didn't, Nate.

People are exaggerating here...

Eh, I have had Carman's back more than anyone but he was down right terrible in the Packers game...

[*ochocincos*]

(08-22-2023, 03:59 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: It didn't, Nate.

People are exaggerating here...

This is why I do value some entity like PFF (not necessarily PFF specifically) going through and evaluating every single rep after the game and with better angles, not just doing the eye test for what they saw live on TV during a game.
When watching a live game, you're only really going to notice the bad and very good things (like a bulldoze block to free the RB). Many of the other reps tend to go unnoticed.

[jj22]

(08-22-2023, 04:28 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Volson. Jonah? 

PFF wouldn't agree on Volson, and Jonah well.... There's a reason Brown is here. 

[*Synric*]

Not only is back up Tackle a huge question mark it looks like Scharping is front running for backup Center with about 2 halfs of 2 preseason games under his belt. The Offensive Line depth is ugly.