Having a great QB on a rookie deal is a cheat code in the NFL

[THE PISTONS]

And the past 2 seasons, the Bengals have taken advantage of it.

While the Bengals have drafted well the past 4 drafts (Burrow, Chase, Higgins, McPherson, Wilson, etc).

This team has also been built with free agency: (Reader, Hendrickson, Awuzie, Vonn Bell, Karras, Hilton, Cappa, Orlando Brown, etc.) <-- That's a massive amount of talent to infuse into a roster.

And trade (BJ Hill).

One would have to expect the Top 5 picks to stop happening, so free agency is a big path to success.

So with a QB highly paid, it's imperative to hit on draft picks AND to optimize development and scheme. Another way of looking at it is that it's back to using the same model they used under Marvin where they signed 3rd and 4th tier free agents because of cost...which puts a premium on draft picks.

Do the Bengals have the right staff in place to win without the cheat code on? I'd argue that offensive lineman atleast aren't being developed. How many players actually improved on the line from what they started as?

[TecmoBengals]

(09-25-2023, 09:20 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Do the Bengals have the right staff in place to win without the cheat code on? I'd argue that offensive lineman atleast aren't being developed. How many players actually improved on the line from what they started as?

If the staff is the "right staff" then I hope they continue to invest in OL & nail the draft year after year with other positions. If the offense ends up being Burrow, Chase, and OL and then guys like Higgins and Boyd are gone then perhaps Zac and the offensive staff rethink their approach to match any talent drafted.

[WeezyBengal]

I've argued since this run began that this team was built on two lay up draft picks (Burrow and Chase) and free agents (Hendrickson, Chido, Karras, Cappa, Reader, Hilton, Vonn Bell).

I can't say im confident when those above checks are finally cashed. There's going to be a lot of holes and based on previous draft history of this staff, not sure they can fill them all.

Other than Higgins and the two lay ups of Chase and Burrow, who is a pick that has REALLY made a difference so far under the ZT era? You could argue possibly Pratt and Wilson but I'd consider those guys nice pieces but not really big impact players.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-25-2023, 10:26 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I've argued since this run began that this team was built on two lay up draft picks (Burrow and Chase) and free agents (Hendrickson, Chido, Karras, Cappa, Reader, Hilton, Vonn Bell).

I can't say im confident when those above checks are finally cashed. There's going to be a lot of holes and based on previous draft history of this staff, not sure they can fill them all.

Other than Higgins and the two lay ups of Chase and Burrow, who is a pick that has REALLY made a difference so far under the ZT era? You could argue possibly Pratt and Wilson but I'd consider those guys nice pieces but not really big impact players.

Yeah. You nailed the crux of my concerns.

I also have a weird feeling that our offense is more individual brilliance...ie throw a 12 yard pass to Chase and have him take it 60 yards, that some great scheme. I think scheme becomes more important when the talent level isn't as high.

It's weird. At times, our offense looks absolutely unstoppable. Then, other times, it looks mediocre and has struggles getting a 1st down. This was last year too.

[dxdtdemon]

This is why I don't understand why the team caved in and gave Burrow a deal. Even at the $29 million of his fifth year option, there would still have been a lot of teams gullible enough to trade lots of great draft picks for Burrow that could have been used to get Burrow's successor and keep as much of the rest of the team as necessary. Instead, the Steelers have basically been given the rest of this decade's division titles because of the extreme stupidity of the front offices of the other three teams.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-25-2023, 10:45 AM)dxdtdemon Wrote: This is why I don't understand why the team caved in and gave Burrow a deal. Even at the $29 million of his fifth year option, there would still have been a lot of teams gullible enough to trade lots of great draft picks for Burrow that could have been used to get Burrow's successor and keep as much of the rest of the team as necessary. Instead, the Steelers have basically been given the rest of this decade's division titles because of the extreme stupidity of the front offices of the other three teams.

Pickett looks very mediocre. The Steelers defense is great.

Finding a franchise QB isn't that easy. Look at the Bears that have been looking for like 20+ years. It's not as easy as trading your franchise QB in the last year of his deal and getting a new dominant rookie.

That said, guys like Goff looked great on rookie deals, and then tanked once they signed extensions. Not saying that will happen here, but less talent around a QB makes it harder to succeed.

[dxdtdemon]

People seem to think that Burrow is the next Brady or Manning. Each of them only missed significant time due to injury once in their long careers, and it wasn't on their rookie contracts. People can say that "It's just training camp and the preseason, so it doesn't matter" all they want, but Burrow's refusal to play when many other players would be on the field with the injuries he has had has dragged down the team, and he knows that he'll be able to get away with sitting out for any injury now that he got paid. I work an extremely dangerous job and have had a lot of calf strains and most of the injuries that Lamar Jackson has sat out for, and have barely missed any time at work. Whatever draft picks we could've had for Burrow if he didn't sign the extension would help the team out way more than a perpetually hurt player.

[TecmoBengals]

(09-25-2023, 10:45 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah. You nailed the crux of my concerns.

I also have a weird feeling that our offense is more individual brilliance...ie throw a 12 yard pass to Chase and have him take it 60 yards, that some great scheme. I think scheme becomes more important when the talent level isn't as high.

It's weird. At times, our offense looks absolutely unstoppable. Then, other times, it looks mediocre and has struggles getting a 1st down. This was last year too.

This how the Super Bowl season felt. Burrow would just, in his own words, "throw it up" to Chase and then Chase would make a big play.

I don't know anything about coaching in the NFL but I believe many professions require making adjustments to maintain success. I hope Zac is flexible enough to change things when needed. 

After the Browns game a reporter asked Zac about not using TEs and Zac said it is because they have three of the best WRs in the NFL. If Zac loses some of those WRs then will he adapt his offensive approach? My gut says we'll be without Boyd and Tee as early as next season. Zac is going to have to adjust his offense, right?

[*PhilHos*]

(09-25-2023, 11:02 AM)dxdtdemon Wrote: People seem to think that Burrow is the next Brady or Manning. Each of them only missed significant time due to injury once in their long careers, and it wasn't on their rookie contracts. People can say that "It's just training camp and the preseason, so it doesn't matter" all they want, but Burrow's refusal to play when many other players would be on the field with the injuries he has had has dragged down the team, and he knows that he'll be able to get away with sitting out for any injury now that he got paid. I work an extremely dangerous job and have had a lot of calf strains and most of the injuries that Lamar Jackson has sat out for, and have barely missed any time at work. Whatever draft picks we could've had for Burrow if he didn't sign the extension would help the team out way more than a perpetually hurt player.

Burrow has only missed time his rookie season because of his ACL/MCL and whatever he else he tore that season. No one plays on ACL tears. NO ONE. Since then, he's played in every game. He has not "refused" to play preseason games. Zac doesn't play ANY of his starters in the preseason.

So, no offense, but please kindly f*** off with your bullshit. Thanks.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-25-2023, 11:06 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: This how the Super Bowl season felt. Burrow would just, in his own words, "throw it up" to Chase and then Chase would make a big play.

I don't know anything about coaching in the NFL but I believe many professions require making adjustments to maintain success. I hope Zac is flexible enough to change things when needed. 

After the Browns game a reporter asked Zac about not using TEs and Zac said it is because they have three of the best WRs in the NFL. If Zac loses some of those WRs then will he adapt his offensive approach? My gut says we'll be without Boyd and Tee as early as next season. Zac is going to have to adjust his offense, right?

IF we lose some of the weapons, I think we should try to draft a Bijon Robinson type RB. That would take the pressure off of Burrow. I realize those guys don't grow on trees though.

[WeezyBengal]

(09-25-2023, 11:06 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: This how the Super Bowl season felt. Burrow would just, in his own words, "throw it up" to Chase and then Chase would make a big play.

I don't know anything about coaching in the NFL but I believe many professions require making adjustments to maintain success. I hope Zac is flexible enough to change things when needed. 

After the Browns game a reporter asked Zac about not using TEs and Zac said it is because they have three of the best WRs in the NFL. If Zac loses some of those WRs then will he adapt his offensive approach? My gut says we'll be without Boyd and Tee as early as next season. Zac is going to have to adjust his offense, right?

To be fair, they did adjust last year. They threw the ball underneath a TON. They didn't rely on explosive plays once a lot of teams started playing a ton of cover 2 against us. We were bottom in the league in total explosive plays.

People don't want to hear it, but this offense was good last year, not bad. They were top 5 in passing yards per game and 7th in points per game. They were ranked pretty high in pretty much every major offensive statistical category. One of the only things they really struggled with was running the ball. 

I've also seen stuff schemed up so far this year that takes advantage of pre snap motion (timed up with with the snap) and other "newish" concepts - they just don't do NEARLY as much of it as teams like Miami dooes because honestly, the Bengals don't have to. They rely on timing routes, the skill of the elite WRs, and the accuracy of their QB to move the ball...there isn't anything wrong with that.

Everyone wants to crown Miami as some generetional offense, but just wait. Defenses will adjust and the tried and true method of run/pass will prevail.

[TecmoBengals]

(09-25-2023, 11:20 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Everyone wants to crown Miami as some generetional offense, but just wait. Defenses will adjust and the tried and true method of run/pass will prevail.

People are just reacting to the 70 point game and feeling the fandom jealousy for a day. It was a fun day for any fan of the Dolphins but it didn't make me want to go all doom and gloom for the Bengals.

[casear2727]

(09-25-2023, 10:45 AM)dxdtdemon Wrote: This is why I don't understand why the team caved in and gave Burrow a deal. Even at the $29 million of his fifth year option, there would still have been a lot of teams gullible enough to trade lots of great draft picks for Burrow that could have been used to get Burrow's successor and keep as much of the rest of the team as necessary. Instead, the Steelers have basically been given the rest of this decade's division titles because of the extreme stupidity of the front offices of the other three teams.

This insanity actually doesnt deserve a response. QB is by far the #1 necessity of all NFL teams. Pickett is not good. If we were to trade Burrow, a Top 2 QB prior to the calf, would result in every single halfway intelligent talking head to proclaim us as the most ignorant and stupidest franchise in the history of football. In fact they would suggest we choose another sport because of the level of absolute brainlessness to even had considered the most empty-headed and moronic trade in this modern era. The level of incompetence and ineptness we would have revealed to the league would prevent any decent free agents to sign with us, hell this lack of intelligence and tremendous idiocy could result in draftees not wanting to play with the uttermost feeble-minded and dunce-like franchise in the history of sports.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-25-2023, 01:08 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This insanity actually doesnt deserve a response.  QB is by far the #1 necessity of all NFL teams.  Pickett is not good.  If we were to trade Burrow, a Top 2 QB prior to the calf, would result in every single halfway intelligent talking head to proclaim us as the most ignorant and stupidest franchise in the history of football.  In fact they would suggest we choose another sport because of the level of absolute brainlessness to even had considered the most empty-headed and moronic trade in this modern era.  The level of incompetence and ineptness we would have revealed to the league would prevent any decent free agents to sign with us, hell this lack of intelligence and tremendous idiocy could result in draftees not wanting to play with the uttermost feeble-minded and dunce-like franchise in the history of sports.

I'm guessing dude is really a Chiefs fan 'cause his post are strangely anti-Burrow.

[casear2727]

(09-25-2023, 11:20 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: To be fair, they did adjust last year. They threw the ball underneath a TON. They didn't rely on explosive plays once a lot of teams started playing a ton of cover 2 against us. We were bottom in the league in total explosive plays.

People don't want to hear it, but this offense was good last year, not bad. They were top 5 in passing yards per game and 7th in points per game. They were ranked pretty high in pretty much every major offensive statistical category. One of the only things they really struggled with was running the ball. 

I've also seen stuff schemed up so far this year that takes advantage of pre snap motion (timed up with with the snap) and other "newish" concepts - they just don't do NEARLY as much of it as teams like Miami dooes because honestly, the Bengals don't have to. They rely on timing routes, the skill of the elite WRs, and the accuracy of their QB to move the ball...there isn't anything wrong with that.

Everyone wants to crown Miami as some generetional offense, but just wait. Defenses will adjust and the tried and true method of run/pass will prevail.

Using motion is not considered "scheming" the way we use it.  Our goal is simply to provide Joe a tell as to what the defense is playing so he can get the ball out much faster.  Scheming with motion is what Miami does in giving Hill a running start which is tremendously difficult to cover.  Miami was showing signs last year of what they are doing now, excellent offense the gets playmakers free which opens the door to the run game.

"They rely on timing routes, the skill of the elite WRs, and the accuracy of their QB to move the ball...there isn't anything wrong with that."  We very rarely have free runners.  And when we do it is due to a break down in defense or a flaw Joe/Coaches witnessed on an earlier play; see Chase's famous hole shot vs KC.

Our method is much more difficult in that it requires a WR to win every route or make a contested catch, and for Joe to make a close to perfect throw.
and 

We do scheme for the TE occasionally.  Hurst TD vs Bills and the almost TD vs KC, and Wilcox's TD vs the Bucs were all excellently schemed plays.  I can recall a 3 for the RB's; Evans vs Detroit and TD vs KC, Mixon's last week were nice.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-25-2023, 10:45 AM)dxdtdemon Wrote: This is why I don't understand why the team caved in and gave Burrow a deal. Even at the $29 million of his fifth year option, there would still have been a lot of teams gullible enough to trade lots of great draft picks for Burrow that could have been used to get Burrow's successor and keep as much of the rest of the team as necessary. Instead, the Steelers have basically been given the rest of this decade's division titles because of the extreme stupidity of the front offices of the other three teams.

The Bengals organization "caved in" and gave Burrow a deal??

More like the team took full advantage by signing him as soon as a deal was able to be reached, and were fortunate to be able to spread the cost of that 5 year extension over 6-7 cap years.

[casear2727]

(09-25-2023, 11:02 AM)dxdtdemon Wrote: People seem to think that Burrow is the next Brady or Manning. Each of them only missed significant time due to injury once in their long careers, and it wasn't on their rookie contracts. People can say that "It's just training camp and the preseason, so it doesn't matter" all they want, but Burrow's refusal to play when many other players would be on the field with the injuries he has had has dragged down the team, and he knows that he'll be able to get away with sitting out for any injury now that he got paid. I work an extremely dangerous job and have had a lot of calf strains and most of the injuries that Lamar Jackson has sat out for, and have barely missed any time at work. Whatever draft picks we could've had for Burrow if he didn't sign the extension would help the team out way more than a perpetually hurt player.

"People seem to think that Burrow is the next Brady or Manning. Each of them only missed significant time due to injury once"

Only non-Bengals fans or the stupidest people on earth dont know that Burrow has missed significant time only once.


"Burrow's refusal to play"

Only non-Bengals fans or the most ignorant people on earth dont know that Burrow has never refused to play.


"he knows that he'll be able to get away with sitting out for any injury now that he got paid."

Only non-Bengals fans or the most brainless and pathetically dimwitted people on earth believe Burrow wants to sit out because he was paid.


"Whatever draft picks we could've had for Burrow if he didn't sign the extension would help the team out way more than a perpetually hurt player."

Only non-Bengals fans or the most unintelligent and non-ball knowing pieces of trash would think that trading Burrow would be a good idea.


"the injuries that Lamar Jackson has sat out for, and have barely missed any time at work."

Lamar missed the end of the last 2 seasons and has ONE playoff win in 5 years, Burrow has 5 in the last 2.  Only non-Bengals fans or the most pathetic and boneheaded Ravens fan would make such a comparison. 


"I work an extremely dangerous job"

No one here gives f-ck about a troll's occupation.

[reuben.ahmed]

what is his extremely dangerous job I want to know now, is it glass cleaning on high rise building over 500 floor

[depthchart]

.


The Bengals benefited by having High picks in the first round, no doubt.

But Great players can be drafted later as the Steelers have shown.

TJ Watt drafted in round one pick #30.

Cameron Heyward drafted in round one pick #31.

The Bengals will have to Prove that they can adapt to no longer having the QB on the rookie deal.

To me this is a better problem to have than having to find the next Star QB.

[casear2727]

(09-25-2023, 01:29 PM)depthchart Wrote: .


The Bengals benefited by having High picks in the first round, no doubt.

But Great players can be drafted later as the Steelers have shown.

TJ Watt drafted in round one pick #30.

Cameron Heyward drafted in round one pick #31.

The Bengals will have to Prove that they can adapt to no longer having the QB on the rookie deal.

To me this is a better problem to have than having to find the next Star QB.

Our inadequacy in drafting is my #1 concern.  

If Volson or Carter end up being solid players that will be the only really good draft we have had picking later than #6 in many years.  That is disturbing.