The OL Thread

[KillerGoose]

(09-26-2023, 11:19 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hard to understand how over 91% pass block efficiency is graded so poorly, and over 94% is graded below average.

It's all relative. If 94% is below average, it would have to mean that most of the league is above 94% efficiency. 

[THE PISTONS]

(09-26-2023, 11:07 AM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: Yeah they could use a really good (not just OK) player on the interior O line
Cooper Bebe from K State?  He is supposed to be a stud but would be rare for Bengals to take a guard in the first. This might be the time to do it if a guy like that is there.

I think the discussion of line starts and ends with Pollack.

They can draft a great prospect, but guys don't get better here. They stagnate. Either say the same, but more often get worse.

Jonah, Carman, and several others (Smith, Adeniji, Jordan, Price) were good to great prospects that got worse under coaching here. (And I realize that Pollack didn't draft these guys, but he coached them.)

[KillerGoose]

(09-26-2023, 11:19 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Well that explains a lot....

I don't know much about him personally, but I will say that PFF data is rock solid. Their grades aren't worth much IMO but things like pass blocking efficiency do have hard formulas to them that give you better information than their grades do. 

[*bfine32*]

I don't think we've seen the caliber of play at LT since Whit.

Volson would be a nice back up but for some reason Pollack has a chubby for him.

Karras is not looking good.

Cappa is as good as we could hope for at RG.

Jonah is growing into LT.

IMO, we are a LG away from being a decent OL. Draft/sign a good Center, move Karras to LG, and we're set,

[THE PISTONS]

(09-26-2023, 11:19 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hard to understand how over 91% pass block efficiency is graded so poorly, and over 94% is graded below average.

Here's other stats. Our line is 30th in pass block win rate, and 28th in run block win rate. (through 3 games)

(Our pass rush win rate metric tells us how often a pass-rusher is able to beat his block within 2.5 seconds. Likewise, our pass block win rate metric conveys the rate linemen can sustain their blocks for 2.5 seconds or longer.)

2023 NFL pass rush, run stop, blocking win rate rankings - ESPN

[depthchart]

(09-26-2023, 11:23 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't think we've seen the caliber of play at LT since Whit.

Volson would be a nice back up but for some reason Pollack has a chubby for him.

Karras is not looking good.

Cappa is as good as we could hope for at RG.

Jonah is growing into LT.

IMO, we are a LG away from being a decent OL. Draft/sign a good Center, move Karras to LG, and we're set,

I think that the Rams let Aaron Donald play all along the Defensive Line during a game so that he can pick out

exactly who he thinks he can beat the easiest.

Looks like Donald chose Volson last night which tells us something.

[THE PISTONS]

Cordell Volson received a 0.0 pass block grade from PFF for last night's performance

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) September 26, 2023

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-26-2023, 01:00 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote:

Cordell Volson received a 0.0 pass block grade from PFF for last night's performance

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) September 26, 2023

I saw that, talk about yikes! On a bright note, Jonah was one of, if not the highest graded lineman in pass pro. 

[007BengalsFan]

Volson got abused all night. He was bad last year and he has not improved this year. Karras played better at LG than he did at center in New England. Maybe you move Karras to left guard and have Scharping take over center. Keeping Volson at left guard and crossing your fingers he improves doesn't give me much confidence.

[Whatever]

(09-26-2023, 11:23 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't think we've seen the caliber of play at LT since Whit.

Volson would be a nice back up but for some reason Pollack has a chubby for him.

Karras is not looking good.

Cappa is as good as we could hope for at RG.

Jonah is growing into LT.

IMO, we are a LG away from being a decent OL. Draft/sign a good Center, move Karras to LG, and we're set,

In fairness to Karras, it doesn't help when you have a walking turnstile lined up on your left shoulder.  It's amazing Brown has been as good as he has with Volson lined up next to him.

Might be time to give Carman another look at LG.  It almost can't get worse than Volson.

[Joelist]

Just ignore PFF and their nonsensical scores.

Burrow dropped back 49 times and was immobile in the pocket because he is favoring the calf. 2 sacks and IIRC 10-11 total pressures. Not bad at all. Yes Aaron Donald ate but he did not take over the game and disrupt everything (like Trey Hendrickson did to the Rams offense). Even with Mixon running into walls late and the passing leaning short they still controlled the ball for 36 minutes. And if Burrow had his customary accuracy they would have scored 30+ points easy.

Once Burrow is more like himself this offense should take a BIG jump in scoring.

[jj22]

Oline fell apart late, but I thought they held strong for most of the game.

[*bfine32*]

I will say this about last night:

Ours looked better than theirs.

[*bfine32*]

(09-26-2023, 02:15 PM)Whatever Wrote: In fairness to Karras, it doesn't help when you have a walking turnstile lined up on your left shoulder.  It's amazing Brown has been as good as he has with Volson lined up next to him.

Might be time to give Carman another look at LG.  It almost can't get worse than Volson.

Carman actually had a higher rating his rookie year than Volson. I think Frank sees something in him, but to be honest, I don't see much in Frank.

I've said it before about Brown. Give Pollack time. 

[THE PISTONS]

(09-26-2023, 02:15 PM)Whatever Wrote: In fairness to Karras, it doesn't help when you have a walking turnstile lined up on your left shoulder.  It's amazing Brown has been as good as he has with Volson lined up next to him.

Might be time to give Carman another look at LG.  It almost can't get worse than Volson.

Volson did get beat impressively quick. And it seemed like the same move a lot.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-26-2023, 02:28 PM)Joelist Wrote: Just ignore PFF and their nonsensical scores.

Burrow dropped back 49 times and was immobile in the pocket because he is favoring the calf. 2 sacks and IIRC 10-11 total pressures. Not bad at all. Yes Aaron Donald ate but he did not take over the game and disrupt everything (like Trey Hendrickson did to the Rams offense). Even with Mixon running into walls late and the passing leaning short they still controlled the ball for 36 minutes. And if Burrow had his customary accuracy they would have scored 30+ points easy.

Once Burrow is more like himself this offense should take a BIG jump in scoring.

They threw so many 0-5 yard passes. Hard to get sacked when you do that.

But, I agree, overall the line was fine. I think outside of Donald that the Rams D-Line isn't good though.

[*ochocincos*]

FWIW, Cordell Volson's PFF pass blocking grade through 3 games is...5.2

His combined grade is a 28.4, as he's also been graded below average in run blocking too.

Bruh has gone up against some real stout IDLs and he'll have some easier matchups the rest of the way, but man it's been a struggle.

[NotBigzo]

(09-26-2023, 04:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: FWIW, Cordell Volson's PFF pass blocking grade through 3 games is...5.2

His combined grade is a 28.4, as he's also been graded below average in run blocking too.

Bruh has gone up against some real stout IDLs and he'll have some easier matchups the rest of the way, but man it's been a struggle.

Jeff Simmons and Arizon's d line is going to toss his salad more. It'll get worse before it gets better.

[TKUHL]

(09-26-2023, 10:17 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well...so far, our interior OL hasn't ben good at pass blocking:

Bengals starting IOL this season:
91.4 pass blocking efficiency
15.6% pressure rate allowed
32.2 PFF pass block grade

Bengals starting OTs this season:
94.1 pass blocking efficiency
10.2% pressure rate allowed
58.8 PFF pass block grade

— Andrew Russell (@Andrew_Russell7) September 26, 2023

We need a stud Center so we can move Karras back to Guard. I’ve been wanting this team to get that anchor on the Oline for years. Still annoyed every time I hear Ragnow’s name. Bastardized took him with the pick just before us.

[casear2727]

(09-26-2023, 04:57 PM)TKUHL Wrote: We need a stud Center so we can move Karras back to Guard. I’ve been wanting this team to get that anchor on the Oline for years. Still annoyed every time I hear Ragnow’s name. Bastardized took him with the pick just before us.

Passing on Creed for Jackson Carman hurts my soul.