Do we need a new Punter?

[Millhouse]

If there isn't any improvement, then absolutely yes. In the meantime they should be getting ready for this scenario just in case.

[Nepa]

Robbins had a pretty atrocious first game. I was calling for his head after that game.

But a case could be made that he did better than the Rams punter in the last game. The Rams punter had more booming punts, averaging 51 yards per punt for his six punts, while Robbins averaged only a little over 42 for his five punts. But 4 of the Rams punts were returned and for an average of 11 yards per punt. Only one of Robbins punts were returned and for only 3 yards, from the 5 yard line to the 8 yard line.

While the Rams punter had these booming punts, they were more line drive punts that resulting in Charlie Jones receiving them ten yards from the nearest Rams defender, giving him plenty of time to operate. And he had the opportunity to break an even longer punt than the 19-yarder that he returned that set the Bengals up nicely.

To a lesser extent, one possibly could argue that Robbins was more effective than the Ravens punter. Although the Ravens punter's two punts averaged 58 yards to Robbins 3 punts averaging 40 yards, only one Robbins punt was returned for 2 yards, while Charlie Jones had an 81-yard TD return for the Bengals.

One cannot just say this is the quality of the coverage teams. In these last two games, there were Bengals defenders waiting around the punt receiver because there was so much hang time while Charlie Jones had plenty of room to operate. The kick to the 5-yard line in the Rams game was a thing of true beauty -- the Bengals defenders had so much time that there were two defenders in front of the punt receiver and one went behind in case the receiver decided to let the ball bounce toward the end zone.

I'm not saying the Bengals cannot improve in this area. I'd love booming punts with great hangtime, which the top punters have. But this beats the no-hang time that Chrisman had in the KC game that left the receiver room to operate.

[C0de_M0nkey]

(09-26-2023, 01:33 PM)QueenCity Wrote: Would love Araiza but doubt the Bengals want to take that PR hit.

That said we have to be able to find a punter that can flip the field while our offense sputters

The Bengals are notorious for giving players a second chance after off the field issues. They took the PR hits on Pacman Jones and Chris Henry even though they were actually convicted of crimes.

[Frank Booth]

(09-26-2023, 10:37 PM)C0de_M0nkey Wrote: The Bengals are notorious for giving players a second chance after off the field issues. They took the PR hits on Pacman Jones and Chris Henry even though they were actually convicted of crimes.

that was under marvin. I havent seen them do anything like that under zac taylor

[QueenCity]

(09-26-2023, 10:37 PM)C0de_M0nkey Wrote: The Bengals are notorious for giving players a second chance after off the field issues. They took the PR hits on Pacman Jones and Chris Henry even though they were actually convicted of crimes.

Katie Blackburn runs the team now.  Everything that has been done since Zac Taylor was hired has been geared towards high character individuals. 

I don't see Bengals making this move it's a new ERA and we really can stop bringing up the old days IMO.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Dave Lewis, the Bengals’ punter from 1970 through 1973, had a career average of 43.3 yards. Back in the 1970s that was HUGE. In fact, Lewis led the league in punting distance in both 1970 and 1971. Maybe his most memorable record is NEVER having a punt blocked. Anyway, Dave Lewis is 77 and unsigned. Just sayin’…

[Destro]

(09-26-2023, 10:43 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: that was under marvin. I havent seen them do anything like that under zac taylor

How very lucky that Mixon was found not guilty then.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-26-2023, 10:54 PM)Destro Wrote: How very lucky that Mixon was found not guilty then.

Yeah, I was gonna say. It’s better than it used to be character-wise, but Joe Mixon is not only still on the team, he’s a captain.

[*psychdoctor*]

I think the team will stick with Robbins for the year. Then decide by next draft.

[BengalYankee]

(09-26-2023, 08:52 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Robbins is terrible. Not at all what you expect when you use a draft pick on a punter.

Lose a wasted draft pick with Robbins, gain a drafted pick by Buffalo when they drafted Matt "the punt god" Araizia and they let him go. 

[BengalYankee]

(09-26-2023, 10:43 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: that was under marvin. I havent seen them do anything like that under zac taylor

It was Mike Brown who publically embarrassed Marvin when he overruled Marvin with Chris Henry being on the team after Marvin said Chris Henry would not be a Bengal again after his last arrest. 

[Nepa]

Araiza has a great nickname ("Punt God") and a reputation for extremely long punts. But in punting average, he was only 6th among his contemporaries. For example, Jordan Stout, the Ravens punter, did better in net punting yards and Araiza was about even with Brad Robbins, who rarely got touchbacks or returns.

The fact is Araiza gets a lot of touchbacks and outkicks his coverage with low hang-time, line-drive punts that may get distance when they get by the returner, but when returned yield a lot of return yardage -- an average of over 10 yards per return. I doubt the Bengals staff would want a kicker who was booming kicks into the end zone and yielding a lot of return yardage.

Here's one source for this information:

https://www.offtackleempire.com/2021/12/22/22849778/punt-god-matt-araiza-greatest-college-football-punting-season-all-time-reddit-epic-win-bacon-memes

[*michaelsean*]

(09-26-2023, 08:29 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: He was fine, drop one inside 20, avg 42 with just 3 yards of return, he neutralized any run back

30 yard shanks out of bounds will do that.

[casear2727]

He is not great on long field switching punts, but we do not have returns. I would love to have had him making the last punt in the AFCCG instead of Chrisman.

[KillerGoose]

It's only been three weeks so far, but I am a bit underwhelmed. Robbins is a fairly unique player in that he has adequate hangtime with a short punting distance. However, there are a couple things to point here...

1. His hangtime isn't very good. This seems to be the most common thing brought up in regard to Robbins, but he isn't doing well here. He is averaging 4.29 seconds of hangtime, good for 25th out of 33 punters. This average would have ranked 19/36, 11/46, 26/40, 25/32, 19/33 over the last five seasons. His current hangtime average is also right in line with what he averaged in college, so it isn't like he is underperforming. 
2. His net average is current overperforming, I think. No punter in the last five years has had such a low average per attempt and a similar hangtime average, but we have some guys that are fairly close. There are six punters who have finished a season averaging right around 4.3 seconds of hangtime and less than 44 yards per punt. Out of these six players (332 punts), the yards per return average was 9.7 yards. The net average was 38.3. Given this information, I think as the season goes, I would expect Robbins net to actually drop to around the 36 yard range. Players will start pulling out returns against him.
   

He isn't great so far, and we need to see a little more distance out of him, or more hangtime. If he is able to boost his hangtime, then a shorter punting distance can work to nearly completely eliminate returns. 

[BengalYankee]

(09-27-2023, 08:04 AM)Nepa Wrote: Araiza has a great nickname ("Punt God") and a reputation for extremely long punts. But in punting average, he was only 6th among his contemporaries. For example, Jordan Stout, the Ravens punter, did better in net punting yards and Araiza was about even with Brad Robbins, who rarely got touchbacks or returns.

The fact is Araiza gets a lot of touchbacks and outkicks his coverage with low hang-time, line-drive punts that may get distance when they get by the returner, but when returned yield a lot of return yardage -- an average of over 10 yards per return. I doubt the Bengals staff would want a kicker who was booming kicks into the end zone and yielding a lot of return yardage.

Here's one source for this information:

https://www.offtackleempire.com/2021/12/22/22849778/punt-god-matt-araiza-greatest-college-football-punting-season-all-time-reddit-epic-win-bacon-memes

So the title of this thread was "Do we need a new Punter?

If we need a new Punter then Arazia is available, if we don't need a punter then we keep Robbins.

You mention Stout, but Stout is not available. 

So as a recent President once said if you are happy with your doctor then you can keep your doctor in this case if you are happy with your punter then we keep our punter. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(09-26-2023, 01:42 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Robbins by the numbers:

- Second to last in the NFL at 41.1 AVG per punt
- His longest punt is 54 yards; only 2 punters have a shorter 'longest punt'
- His net is 38.9; only 6 punters have a lower net
- He is second in the NFL with 18 punts (a decent sample size after 3 games)

On the flip side, he has allowed 20 return yards on 18 punts. Only 6 punters have allowed fewer return yards, and none of them have punted more than 12 times. 

In terms of return yards per return, he is 4th in the league, in terms of return yards per punt, 3rd. 

He is not a field flipper. Never gonna be. In order for him to get longer, he is going to have to make some technique adjustments. Which will take time.  

But we clearly made the decision to sacrifice leg for hang time. This is what it looks like. 

[Mickeypoo]

(09-26-2023, 10:33 PM)Nepa Wrote: Robbins had a pretty atrocious first game. I was calling for head after that game.

But a case could be made that he did better than the Rams punter in the last game. The Rams punter had more booming punts, averaging 51 yards per punt for his six punts, while Robbins averaged only a little over 42 for his five punts. But 4 of the Rams punts were returned and for an average of 11 yards per punt. Only one of Robbins punts were returned and for only 3 yards, from the 5 yard line to the 8 yard line.

While the Rams punter had these booming punts, they were more line drive punts that resulting in Charlie Jones receiving them ten yards from the nearest Rams defender, giving him plenty of time to operate. And he had the opportunity to break an even longer punt than the 19-yarder that he returned that set the Bengals up nicely.

To a lesser extent, one possibly could argue that Robbins was more effective than the Ravens punter. Although the Ravens punter's two punts averaged 58 yards to Robbins 3 punts averaging 40 yards, only one Robbins punt was returned for 2 yards, while Charlie Jones had an 81-yard TD return for the Bengals.

One cannot just say this is the quality of the coverage teams. In these last two games, there were Bengals defenders waiting around the punt receiver because there was so much hang time while Charlie Jones had plenty of room to operate. The kick to the 5-yard line in the Rams game was a thing of true beauty -- the Bengals defenders had so much time that there were two defenders in front of the punt receiver and one went behind in case the receiver decided to let the ball bounce toward the end zone.

I'm not saying the Bengals cannot improve in this area. I'd love booming punts with great hangtime, which the top punters have. But this beats the no-hang time that Chrisman had in the KC game that left the receiver room to operate.

  

I'm sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

[Essex Johnson]

(09-27-2023, 09:39 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: So the title of this thread was "Do we need a new Punter?

If we need a new Punter then Arazia is available, if we don't need a punter then we keep Robbins.

You mention Stout, but Stout is not available. 

So as a recent President once said if you are happy with your doctor then you can keep your doctor in this case if you are happy with your punter then we keep our punter. 

Stout has a lower net avg also and has given up a punt return TD plus a good amount of yards outside of the TD... Robbins has slowly improved each game, last week was not a terrible game when you consider he put one inside the 20 so that would reduce avg and he pretty much neutralized any returns.. I don't see the Bengals giving up this early on a drafted punter and as you pointed out outside of Arazia (which like it or not would carry some baggage) not much out there outside of him.  Robbins is doing something that they wanted better from Chrisman and that is no returns.. he is averaging 27% on returnable kicks... Chrisman was 50%... Small sample size still, I would give him till the bye, if Bengals are concerned then with this Net avg. then that is a good time to bring in a punter to tryout...

[reuben.ahmed]

(09-27-2023, 08:04 AM)Nepa Wrote: Araiza has a great nickname ("Punt God") and a reputation for extremely long punts. But in punting average, he was only 6th among his contemporaries. For example, Jordan Stout, the Ravens punter, did better in net punting yards and Araiza was about even with Brad Robbins, who rarely got touchbacks or returns.

The fact is Araiza gets a lot of touchbacks and outkicks his coverage with low hang-time, line-drive punts that may get distance when they get by the returner, but when returned yield a lot of return yardage -- an average of over 10 yards per return. I doubt the Bengals staff would want a kicker who was booming kicks into the end zone and yielding a lot of return yardage.

Here's one source for this information:

https://www.offtackleempire.com/2021/12/22/22849778/punt-god-matt-araiza-greatest-college-football-punting-season-all-time-reddit-epic-win-bacon-memes

Yeah but our punter can't boom a punt period, you'll always get 33-41 yards out of him.