Will We Improve The Line This Offseason?

[WeezyBengal]

(10-04-2023, 02:09 PM)J24 Wrote: The coaches have changed the scheme. They did it last season before the first Ravens game. The rush offense  was a top 5 unit for the rest of season. 

The offense in general was a top 5 unit. 

Everyone bitching about "scheme" and "play calling" just kills me. This offense was actually pretty damn good last year under a healthy Burrow. 

The main reason they suck this year is because Burrow can't move. He can't run, can't scramble, navigate the pocket, or extend plays. Extending plays is his best attribute (along with accuracy). 

[WeezyBengal]

(10-03-2023, 05:15 PM)PCB Bengal Fan Wrote: Would'nt it be easier to block knowing Joe is'nt going to run?

No. 

When defenses don't have to contain and play run lanes they can basically just pin their ears back and rush the QB all out. They also know the exact point/lane they have to rush to knowing full well the QB cant move from that spot. 

[Frank Booth]

(10-04-2023, 02:09 PM)J24 Wrote: The coaches have changed the scheme. They did it last season before the first Ravens game. The rush offense  was a top 5 unit for the rest of season. 

the panthers game inflates the numbers.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-04-2023, 02:19 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The offense in general was a top 5 unit. 

Everyone bitching about "scheme" and "play calling" just kills me. This offense was actually pretty damn good last year under a healthy Burrow. 

The main reason they suck this year is because Burrow can't move. He can't run, can't scramble, navigate the pocket, or extend plays. Extending plays is his best attribute (along with accuracy). 

Should the offense be so entirely dependent on Joe Burrow being able to do everything normal though?
What happens when the offense needs to adapt?

[Bengalholic]

https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin

[GodFather]

(10-02-2023, 03:33 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Will we waste another year of Burrow and shorten his career by letting him keep taking sacks and hits?

As long as Frank Pollack is here the answer is yes...

[BFritz21]

(10-05-2023, 06:18 PM)GodFather Wrote: As long as Frank Pollack is here the answer is yes...

I've always been a fan of Pollack but this is pretty bad.

Maybe they just need a scheme change.

I don't understand why they haven't tried something different since the line has been embarrassed.

Burrow's not on the injury report for the first time in a while, so maybe him being able to (hopefully) move more will help.

[*bengalfan74*]

I just don't know? Every time I think we've gotten better it seems we really haven't or only marginally so. I thought the addition of Brown at LT would bump this Oline up to at least decent level. But thus far they're struggling pretty bad.

Since big Whit left we've struggled to even get to the barely serviceable level. Are we just cursed to having a subpar Oline?

[Brownshoe]

(10-04-2023, 02:19 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The offense in general was a top 5 unit. 

Everyone bitching about "scheme" and "play calling" just kills me. This offense was actually pretty damn good last year under a healthy Burrow. 

The main reason they suck this year is because Burrow can't move. He can't run, can't scramble, navigate the pocket, or extend plays. Extending plays is his best attribute (along with accuracy). 

We were neither top 5 points per game nor yards per game last year. We were not a top 5 unit. Talent wise, obviously. Production ? not so much.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-05-2023, 08:09 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I've always been a fan of Pollack but this is pretty bad.

Maybe they just need a scheme change.

I don't understand why they haven't tried something different since the line has been embarrassed.

Burrow's not on the injury report for the first time in a while, so maybe him being able to (hopefully) move more will help.

It will definitely help if Burrow truly is 100% now, but I won't believe it till I see it after the Titans game.

Pollack is definitely a problem now, this was the year to really judge him as this is finally a talented OL to work with and most the 
players were all here last season besides Orlando Brown who is an upgrade at LT.

I think unless this OL drastically improves as the season goes on, we need a new OL coach after this season.

I was always a Pollack fan myself, but I am a Bengals fan first and foremost and he hasn't been getting the job done.

(10-05-2023, 08:29 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I just don't know? Every time I think we've gotten better it seems we really haven't or only marginally so. I thought the addition of Brown at LT would bump this Oline up to at least decent level. But thus far they're struggling pretty bad.

Since big Whit left we've struggled to even get to the barely serviceable level. Are we just cursed to having a subpar Oline?

Thought the same with the addition of OBJ.

We have been cursed with bad OL coaches IMO...

I thought Pollack would of changed this but he is a problem just the same now, he hasn't coached up anybody and Volson actually 
looks worse than last year so far this year which is very telling.

[BFritz21]

(10-06-2023, 03:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It will definitely help if Burrow truly is 100% now, but I won't believe it till I see it after the Titans game.

Pollack is definitely a problem now, this was the year to really judge him as this is finally a talented OL to work with and most the 
players were all here last season besides Orlando Brown who is an upgrade at LT.

I think unless this OL drastically improves as the season goes on, we need a new OL coach after this season.

I was always a Pollack fan myself, but I am a Bengals fan first and foremost and he hasn't been getting the job done.


Thought the same with the addition of OBJ.

We have been cursed with bad OL coaches IMO...

I thought Pollack would of changed this but he is a problem just the same now, he hasn't coached up anybody and Volson actually 
looks worse than last year so far this year which is very telling.

I was thinking that it has been Pollack all along, but I'm starting to think it's Tobin drafting guys that don't fit Pollack's zone blocking schemes.

Now, since we have all the guys already, the answer might have to be to fire Pollack and bring in a coach with a gap scheme, but Zac and all the other coaches seem to want the zone scheme, so what do we do? 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-06-2023, 03:49 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I was thinking that it has been Pollack all along, but I'm starting to think it's Tobin drafting guys that don't fit Pollack's zone blocking schemes.

Now, since we have all the guys already, the answer might have to be to fire Pollack and bring in a coach with a gap scheme, but Zac and all the other coaches seem to want the zone scheme, so what do we do? 

I find it very hard to believe that Tobin is just drafting guys that don't fit Pollack's scheme. He himself, the dude named Pollack has 
been moving his players out of position and has been teaching his players these schemes. I put the blame on Pollack myself, same 
as I did with PA back in the day once he got too old for the new game it seems Pollack cannot adjust and coach these guys up.

It all starts in the trenches and Volson and Carman are 2 guys that should be much better than they are right now under Pollack.

It is not a coincidence that where we are better on the OL is with vet players that came from other teams that Tobin brought here.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-02-2023, 03:40 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They've been trying to fix the line for like 7-8 years.

Since we drafted Ogbuehi and Fisher as potential replacements for Whitworth. That was the 2015 draft. What a journey.

(10-02-2023, 03:52 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I agree but I don't think we've gone all-out. 

We have signed a few guys and drafted a few but will we go all-out and sign top-tier guys and draft the best?

I used to say this before we signed guys like Collins, Cappa, Karras, Brown, etc. The team has swung for the fences with all of these signings.

I think most of us are in agreement that Pollack is likely the problem. When the boards agree on something, you know it's undeniable.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Took just a month to go from making a thread about how Brad was buying the Bengals OL being top 10-15 and that meant Chase should be drafted 1st overall.... to "will we improve the line this offseason".

A very short journey to go such a long distance. Lol

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-06-2023, 04:32 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Since we drafted Ogbuehi and Fisher as potential replacements for Whitworth. That was the 2015 draft. What a journey.


I used to say this before we signed guys like Collins, Cappa, Karras, Brown, etc. The team has swung for the fences with all of these signings.

I think most of us are in agreement that Pollack is likely the problem. When the boards agree on something, you know it's undeniable.

Yup when did Big Whit leave 16? We haven't had a decent Oline for a full season since.  We've had little runs here and there, few good games vs. lesser D's. But in the big picture of 16+ games season our Oline has been a liability. 

Coaching has to be part of if not the majority of the problem over all those seasons.

[PCB Bengal Fan]

(10-04-2023, 02:21 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: No. 

When defenses don't have to contain and play run lanes they can basically just pin their ears back and rush the QB all out. They also know the exact point/lane they have to rush to knowing full well the QB cant move from that spot. 

Yea you know a pocket QB like Brady. 

[KillerGoose]

(10-04-2023, 02:09 PM)J24 Wrote: The coaches have changed the scheme. They did it last season before the first Ravens game. The rush offense  was a top 5 unit for the rest of season. 

Well, no, not really. By YPC and yards per game, they weren't even close. Yards per carry, they ranked 20th. Yards per game, they ranked 30th. However, by EPA per rush, they ranked 5th, which is what I assume you are basing this on. However, like most things rushing wise last season, that number is heavily carried by the Panthers game. If you look at their EPA per attempt ranking without the Panthers game included, but from week five on, they drop from 5th to 14th. That game was such an outlier, that it also drops their YPC and YPG averages down to the very bottom of the league. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-06-2023, 07:43 PM)PCB Bengal Fan Wrote: Yea you know a pocket QB like Brady. 

Yeah and Brady was accurate out of the pocket with pretty damn good OL's and geniuses running the Offenses.

Burrow is inaccurate with the calf strain with a bad OL and coaches learning as they go with an immobile inaccurate QB.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-06-2023, 05:07 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yup when did Big Whit leave 16? We haven't had a decent Oline for a full season since.  We've had little runs here and there, few good games vs. lesser D's. But in the big picture of 16+ games season our Oline has been a liability. 

Coaching has to be part of if not the majority of the problem over all those seasons.

Whit's last year was 2016, and we even struggled that year, giving up 41 sacks and ranking 23rd in yards per carry.

[KillerGoose]

(10-07-2023, 08:03 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Whit's last year was 2016, and we even struggled that year, giving up 41 sacks and ranking 23rd in yards per carry.

This has actually been a consistent issue the last 20 or so years. Since 2003, Cincinnati has a had top 16 rushing offense by YPC five times, never ranking higher than 9th. The run game has been inefficient for years now. You have to go back to the 90's to find the first instance of Cincinnati stringing together two consecutive seasons within the top 16.