Zack Carter

[Housh]

Disappearing act but is he even getting snaps like that? Seems like Reader, BJ and Josh T get most those snaps

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-12-2023, 02:23 PM)Housh Wrote: Disappearing act but is he even getting snaps like that? Seems like Reader, BJ and Josh T get most those snaps

Ochocincos listed Carter's snaps, 75 pass rush, 63 run defense. It isn't a ton, but he should have more than just 1 sack on all those
snaps in my opinion as he was our hope to become our pass rushing 3-tech. Tufele I saw on the field a lot against the Cardinals, I 
didn't notice Josh Tupou in this last game.

[Bengal Dude]

Multiple reporters mentioned this offseason that Carter did not develop like they thought he would last season. We were told he had a great camp, but we haven't seen much this season so far.

When he was drafted, multiple people said he was going to be a tweener project. The coaches seemed to think he was ready to be a 3T. As of right now, DT is definitely high on the list of needs for next season.

[*Synric*]

Renell Wren (4th round)
Khalid Karem (5th round)
Joseph Ossai (3rd round)
Cameron Sample (4th round)
Tyler Shelvin (4th round)
Wyatt Hubert (7th round)
Zach Carter (3rd round)
Jeff Gunter (7th round)
Myles Murphy (1st round)

We always mention how the Bengals have failed drafting Offensive Linemen but they haven't had a successful Defensive line pick in the Zac Taylor era (Jury is still out on Murphy). Technically Cam Sample is their best DLine pick up until this point.

[kalibengal]

(10-13-2023, 08:58 AM)Synric Wrote: Renell Wren (4th round)
Khalid Karem (5th round)
Joseph Ossai (3rd round)
Cameron Sample (4th round)
Tyler Shelvin (4th round)
Wyatt Hubert (7th round)
Zach Carter (3rd round)
Jeff Gunter (7th round)
Myles Murphy (1st round)

We always mention how the Bengals have failed drafting Offensive Linemen but they haven't had a successful Defensive line pick in the Zac Taylor era (Jury is still out on Murphy). Technically Cam Sample is their best DLine pick up until this point.

Yes they seem to lack the required talent evaluation for both DL and OL. The only starter on the DL that was drafted is Hubbard the rest are FA signings or from a trade (BJ) 

[*ochocincos*]

(10-13-2023, 10:40 AM)kalibengal Wrote: Yes they seem to lack the required talent evaluation for both DL and OL. The only starter on the DL that was drafted is Hubbard the rest are FA signings or from a trade (BJ) 

And Hubbard was the previous regime.

This is kind of the point I was making when talking about drafting offensive weapons and DBs when veterans at those positions depart, as the Bengals have (far) more success at those compared to OL/DL.
They just don't have good evaluations and/or bad scheme/development for the players they are taking for OL and DL.

[chrisball96]

(10-12-2023, 11:06 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Sometimes it does carry over.

Chase and Hendrickson have carried their strong camps into the regular season. https://t.co/qJCNJ1WpHJ

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) October 9, 2023

I really did want to believe in Chris Evans as well and, once again, to no one's surprise but myself, it's just not there. But I guess maybe it's because there's not really a need to hand the ball to anyone else but Mixon because we don't run with the volume to even really need to get into a second back, but still. 

[*ochocincos*]

(10-12-2023, 04:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Ochocincos listed Carter's snaps, 75 pass rush, 63 run defense. It isn't a ton, but he should have more than just 1 sack on all those
snaps in my opinion as he was our hope to become our pass rushing 3-tech. Tufele I saw on the field a lot against the Cardinals, I 
didn't notice Josh Tupou in this last game.

It might be that Carter just isn't a good fit in the scheme.

He was a tweener coming into the league at 282 lbs.
Now he's 290, but he still kinda small as a 4-3 IDL given he's 6'4".
Looking back at his scouting report, he was projected best fit as a 3-4 DE.


I do think he could become a solid 3T, but he may need to grow further if he's gonna be able to handle IOL better.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Day 3 guys are always a crapshoot. But you should be solid Rounds 1-3.

This regime:
2019 1st: Jonah Williams, OT, Starter
2019 2nd: Drew Sample, TE, TE2
2019 3rd: Germaine Pratt, LB, Starter
2020 1st: Joe Burrow, QB, Starter
2020 2nd: Tee Higgins, WR, Starter
2020 3rd: Logan Wilson, LB, Starter
2021 1st: Ja'Marr Chase, WR, Starter
2021 2nd: Jackson Carman, OT, Reserve/Inactive
2021 3rd: Joseph Ossai, DE, Rotational
2022 1st: Dax Hill, S, Starter
2022 2nd: Cam Taylor-Britt, Starter
2022 3rd: Zachary Carter, DE/DE, Rotational
2023 1st: Miles Murphy, DE, Rotational
2023 2nd: DJ Turner, CB, Nickel/Rotational
2023: 3rd: Jordan Battle, S, Splitting time as starter

Carman is definitely the biggest miss in my book. Sample was a huge reach/panic pick, but at least he can block. I'd give Carter the Bronze is terms of poor picks in the ZT era. And it is still early, especially for a guy you were asking to switch positions.

Murphy was always gonna be a project, IDK why people are surprised at his play.

Overall, pretty darn good for rounds 1-3.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-12-2023, 10:39 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Our IDL has been lacking this season so far. I think there's a legitimate question whether we cut BJ Hill after this season. It would save 7.5 million dollars in 2024 cap space and he just hasn't been an impact player that we were hoping for from the 3T position.

I know we never had a shot at him (clearly), but the Eagles, a Super Bowl team, getting Jalen Carter in last year's draft makes me sick...If we could learn how to hack the draft the way the Eagles have, we could be reload every year on the cheap.

Just staying put and picking in the late 20s each year risks leaking talent over time if our rookies cannot quickly replace our high end starters that leave in free agency.

I don’t pay all that much attention to the draft outside of the Bengals. What exactly were the Eagles able to do?

[CJD]

(10-13-2023, 07:29 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I don’t pay all that much attention to the draft outside of the Bengals. What exactly were the Eagles able to do?

They just trade down in the NFL draft a lot, which results in future draft picks that usually end up much more valuable than the picks they gave up the previous year. To track the origins of this particular pick would span multiple drafts and lots of trades.

In the 2021 NFL draft, they traded from #6 to #12 and got an extra 1st round pick in 2022.

In 2022, they traded their 2 first round picks, 16th and 19th, to the Saints in the 2022 NFL draft in exchange for the #18 pick and the Saints' 2023 pick.

The 2022 Saints ended up being worse than expected, so that pick ended up the #10 pick. They then only needed to trade up 1 pick to get Jalen Carter, whereas if they hadn't made that trade, they would have had to trade up from the 31st overall pick, which would have cost much more draft capital.

[chrisball96]

(10-13-2023, 06:50 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Day 3 guys are always a crapshoot. But you should be solid Rounds 1-3.

This regime:
2019 1st: Jonah Williams, OT, Starter
2019 2nd: Drew Sample, TE, TE2
2019 3rd: Germaine Pratt, LB, Starter
2020 1st: Joe Burrow, QB, Starter
2020 2nd: Tee Higgins, WR, Starter
2020 3rd: Logan Wilson, LB, Starter
2021 1st: Ja'Marr Chase, WR, Starter
2021 2nd: Jackson Carman, OT, Reserve/Inactive
2021 3rd: Joseph Ossai, DE, Rotational
2022 1st: Dax Hill, S, Starter
2022 2nd: Cam Taylor-Britt, Starter
2022 3rd: Zachary Carter, DE/DE, Rotational
2023 1st: Miles Murphy, DE, Rotational
2023 2nd: DJ Turner, CB, Nickel/Rotational
2023: 3rd: Jordan Battle, S, Splitting time as starter

Carman is definitely the biggest miss in my book. Sample was a huge reach/panic pick, but at least he can block. I'd give Carter the Bronze is terms of poor picks in the ZT era. And it is still early, especially for a guy you were asking to switch positions.

Murphy was always gonna be a project, IDK why people are surprised at his play.

Overall, pretty darn good for rounds 1-3.

As to the Sample pick I do agree he is a great blocker, but I just wonder at his being picked in the second round. Just seems like if he’s who they wanted he still would have been available in later rounds.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-13-2023, 09:32 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: They just trade down in the NFL draft a lot, which results in future draft picks that usually end up much more valuable than the picks they gave up the previous year. To track the origins of this particular pick would span multiple drafts and lots of trades.

In the 2021 NFL draft, they traded from #6 to #12 and got an extra 1st round pick in 2022.

In 2022, they traded their 2 first round picks, 16th and 19th, to the Saints in the 2022 NFL draft in exchange for the #18 pick and the Saints' 2023 pick.

The 2022 Saints ended up being worse than expected, so that pick ended up the #10 pick. They then only needed to trade up 1 pick to get Jalen Carter, whereas if they hadn't made that trade, they would have had to trade up from the 31st overall pick, which would have cost much more draft capital.

If I’m following, the 2021 #12 was their bonus pick. The 2023 pick was pretty much a wash with the 2021 pick they gave up. In essence they traded the 2021 #6 for the 2021 #12 the pick that got them Carter.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-13-2023, 05:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It might be that Carter just isn't a good fit in the scheme.

He was a tweener coming into the league at 282 lbs.
Now he's 290, but he still kinda small as a 4-3 IDL given he's 6'4".
Looking back at his scouting report, he was projected best fit as a 3-4 DE.


I do think he could become a solid 3T, but he may need to grow further if he's gonna be able to handle IOL better.

Man, I wish we would just Draft players that fit instead of wondering about these things.

Seen way too much of this in the trenches. Thank God we have made moves in FA to hide this obvious problem in the Draft.

[Sled21]

(10-12-2023, 04:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Ochocincos listed Carter's snaps, 75 pass rush, 63 run defense. It isn't a ton, but he should have more than just 1 sack on all those
snaps in my opinion as he was our hope to become our pass rushing 3-tech. Tufele I saw on the field a lot against the Cardinals, I 
didn't notice Josh Tupou in this last game.

Topou has a toe injury.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

PFF scores for the D:

DE Hendrickson: 89.6
DE Hubbard: 69.5
NT: Reader: 73.9
DT: BJ Hill: 57.0
LB: Wilson: 52.9
LB: Pratt: 66.2
CB1: Awuzie: 63.4
CB2: CTB: 57.2
CB3: Hilton: 41.4
SS: Scott: 43.2
FS: D. Hill: 63.6
------------------
CB: Turner (174 snaps): 67.1
DT: Carter (138): 55.8
DE: C. Sample (114): 59.4
NT: Tupou (80): 61.6
DE: Murphy (65): 54.9
S: Battle (53): 76.1
---------
DE: Ossai (29): 58.4
DT: Tufele (26): 28.3

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-13-2023, 01:30 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Multiple reporters mentioned this offseason that Carter did not develop like they thought he would last season. We were told he had a great camp, but we haven't seen much this season so far.

When he was drafted, multiple people said he was going to be a tweener project. The coaches seemed to think he was ready to be a 3T. As of right now, DT is definitely high on the list of needs for next season.

Besides the Chase drop issues in his rookie camp, when is the last time we ever heard about someone on the Bengals not having a great camp? Real question.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-14-2023, 01:50 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Besides the Chase drop issues in his rookie camp, when is the last time we ever heard about someone on the Bengals not having a great camp? Real question.

Trevor Siemian

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-14-2023, 01:54 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Trevor Siemian

https://www.bengals.com/news/irv-smith-jr-s-productive-talk-charlie-jones-trevor-siemian
https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/bengals-practice-takeaways-charlie-jones-injured-irv-smith-shines

Siemian had fluff pieces about his good camp, too. I think it wasn't until preseason that everyone was like "oh, nevermind". Lol

[*Synric*]

(10-14-2023, 01:50 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Besides the Chase drop issues in his rookie camp, when is the last time we ever heard about someone on the Bengals not having a great camp? Real question.

Jackson Carman especially his rookie year when he started out last in line for the position drills.