OL article

[SunsetBengal]

General feeling from Callahan and Pollack is that they're happy with the improvement, though things could always be better. Couple of interesting parts that caught my eye in bold.

In my opinion, the reduction in sacks is huge, but we have to get that number of hits that Burrow is absorbing down a bit. Like it or not, RPO passes are NOT rushing plays, and they simply need to hand the ball off more and build that continuity in moving the defense off the ball.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/how-has-the-cincinnati-bengals-offensive-line-played-through-6-games/ar-AA1iwlhM?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=acd65e2cbd4447208d9bec9aa5dfb077&ei=38

Quote:As the Cincinnati Bengals coaching staff takes stock of the offensive struggles during the bye week, it’s a good time to look at how much responsibility should be placed on the offensive line.

ESPN has the Bengals ranked 30th in its pass block win rate metric at 45% and 21st in run block win rate at 70% (it’s worth noting there are only four percentage points separating 21st from third in the RBWR).

But from the staff’s perspective, the performance has been better than what those numbers indicate and certainly better than where the line was in previous seasons.

How Has the Cincinnati Bengals Offensive Line Played So Far?
“I’ve been pleased with their performance,” offensive coordinator Brian Callahan said.

“I think in pass pro, we’re markedly improved. We’ve played some good fronts, but they’re doing the job we want them to do. I’d like to give up maybe one less sack per game. There’s always one that gets home. Some of it’s schematic, some of it is somebody losing somewhere.”

The Bengals have allowed 14 sacks, which is tied for the 12th fewest in the league. They’ve allowed 44 pressures, which ranks 11th.

And when you take the volume aspect out of it and consider the team’s 247 dropbacks are the fourth most this year, the numbers look even better.
Burrow has been sacked once every 17.6 dropbacks, which is tied for eighth best.

“You can play great as an offensive lineman for 70 plays, but you give up one bad play that turned into a sack, and that’s all you’re thinking about,” offensive line coach Frank Pollack said. “Whereas on defense, you can get your ass kicked for 69 plays, and you get one sack, and all anyone is talking about is what a great game you had, which is bulls—t.

“You’re always looking to be perfect and pitch shutouts and be right on point with everything you’re doing as far as blocking,” Pollack continued. “I think we’ve done a lot of good things, but there’s some things we need to do better and clean up. All of that said, we’re way ahead of where we were last year at this point.”

The Bengals spent big in free agency two years in a row to help bolster the offensive line after that group cost them a victory in Super Bowl LVI. It was Alex Cappa, Ted Karras, and La’el Collins in 2022, and Orlando Brown Jr. this year.

Per Pro Football Focus, Brown ranks 27th among 61 qualifying tackles in run blocking. Jonah Williams, who moved from left tackle to right due to Brown’s arrival, is 31st.

Among guards, Alex Cappa is 15th of 53 qualifiers, but Cordell Volson is 51st. And of 30 centers, Ted Karras is 17th.

“We’ve gotten caught a couple times on blitzes, that’s a fact,” Pollack said. “So kudos to those guys on defense. That’s going to happen. But overall, over the course of a season, you get more of a sample size. You’re hoping to come out way ahead on those things. And we expect to do that.”

Through six games last year, Burrow was pressured on 20.1% of his dropbacks while taking 43 hits and 22 sacks. Through the first six this year, he’s been pressured a career-low 17.4% of the time with a career-low 14 sacks and 39 hits.

“We’re good enough to be 3-3,” Pollack said. “But there’s room to get better. Whatever the situation is, we’ve got to step up to the challenge. And no matter how tight the margin for error, that’s the nature of offensive line play. As a coach, as a unit, as an offense, you know the issues that we’re trying to work through and limit.”

The Bengals are ranked 32nd in rush offense, but that has less to do with how the offensive line is blocking and more with how rarely the team runs the ball because it’s a volume stat.

And head coach Zac Taylor and offensive coordinator Brian Callahan count passing yards on RPO plays as rushing yards, given that those plays are extensions of the run game.

Still, in terms of yards per carry, the Bengals rank 26th, and there have been some problematic issues in each of the last two games, with the four failed runs on the goal line at Arizona and the 3rd-and-1 stop at midfield on the first play of the fourth quarter Sunday, to name a couple.

“In the run game, we’ve been good, but we can be better,” Callahan said. “We can get more out of the run game than we’ve gotten. But I’ve been pleased with their performance. I feel so much different about going into games than we did two years ago. It just feels different. Everything about it feels much more solid and nailed down.”

The Bengals will be tested immediately coming out of the break. The 49ers rank ninth in PRWR, the Bills are third, and the Texans second. In terms of run stop win rate, the 49ers are ninth and the Bills are seventh.

“I’m excited for how things will be done,” Pollack said. “We’ve done a lot of good things, but it ain’t all roses and sunshine either. You can be undefeated and still have a s—load of things you need to work on. So we’re excited about our successes, but we know the areas we’ve got to improve on, and we will.”

[WeezyBengal]

I will never agree that RPO passes are "extensions of the running game". Ever.

Anyway, they've had to face three elite pash rushers in their first 6 games.

Browns - Myles Garrett
Rams - Donald
Titans - Simmmons

The biggest thing for me is that it seems like the right/left tackle spots have been solidified. They aren't complete liabilities and dare I say "above average/good"?

Do I wish the guard play heald up a bit better at times? Yes. But it's just so important to have those tackle spots playing better when we face guys like Watt and Garrett twice a year.

I'd give the unit a B- so far this year.

[*ochocincos*]

I agree (at least somewhat) with Pollack on his statement about people focusing on the splash plays for both OL and defense.

An OL could play great but allow a sack or two and people think they are horrible.

That's why I give the benefit of the doubt to grading sites like PFF.
They are taking the time watching every single snap (even if they do occasionally get assignments wrong).
I haven't watched back all the tape, but I would bet that's why we see Jonah Williams with a PFF pass block grade of 66.0 but Cordell Volson with a PB grade of 23.5 despite having about the same number of sacks and pressures allowed (Jonah - 2 sacks, 12 pressures; Volson - 3 sacks, 15 pressures).
Jonah has always had a lot of good reps that go largely unnoticed.

[WeezyBengal]

(10-20-2023, 10:08 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I agree (at least somewhat) with Pollack on his statement about people focusing on the splash plays for both OL and defense.

An OL could play great but allow a sack or two and people think they are horrible.

That's why I give the benefit of the doubt to grading sites like PFF.
They are taking the time watching every single snap (even if they do occasionally get assignments wrong).
I haven't watched back all the tape, but I would bet that's why we see Jonah Williams with a PFF pass block grade of 66.0 but Cordell Volson with a PB grade of 23.5 despite having about the same number of sacks and pressures allowed (Jonah - 2 sacks, 12 pressures; Volson - 3 sacks, 15 pressures).
Jonah has always had a lot of good reps that go largely unnoticed.

I am interested to see how the OL continues to hold up with longer developing/longer drop back plays and if we go under center. 

Burrow has gotten the ball out EXTREMELY quickly so far this year. It def makes the OL job easier. The true test will be how they hold up as we throw the ball down the field more as Burrow continues to get healthier. 

[Joelist]

The other thing to remember about hits is the Rats were definitely headhunting in our game against them (and got caught later in the season). That is why you can't just smile and take it when your QB is hit late or they are clearly going for the head or legs. You have to make the point - loudly. Get the NFL to tell the refs to watch out for that stuff.

[WeezyBengal]

Also, I am all for bringing Jonah back on a deal if he wants to play RT. He's still only 25, has played the position pretty damn well this year, and will only improve as he continues to settle.

[Goalpost]

(10-20-2023, 10:32 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Also, I am all for bringing Jonah back on a deal if he wants to play RT. He's still only 25, has played the position pretty damn well this year, and will only improve as he continues to settle.

Right now is he worth the 5 year/75 million that Spotrac suggests he will get in the FA open market? 

[brian5562]

The issue on the line is left guard and to an extent center. I wish the team would look at giving Ford reps at left guard.

[casear2727]

(10-20-2023, 11:21 AM)Goalpost Wrote: Right now is he worth the 5 year/75 million that Spotrac suggests he will get in the FA open market? 

Probably not, but.... with the lack of quality OT's and the rising salaries he likely isnt too far off.  When you add in the fact we have absolutely sucked over the last decade in drafting oline that likely increases his value as well.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-20-2023, 10:32 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Also, I am all for bringing Jonah back on a deal if he wants to play RT. He's still only 25, has played the position pretty damn well this year, and will only improve as he continues to settle.

I feel the part to note about that is that he's remained healthy, we haven't been reading about him getting dinged up and appearing on the weekly injury reports.  Perhaps the move to the right side is better for his knees?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-20-2023, 10:02 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I will never agree that RPO passes are "extensions of the running game". Ever.

Anyway, they've had to face three elite pash rushers in their first 6 games.

Browns - Myles Garrett
Rams - Donald
Titans - Simmmons

The biggest thing for me is that it seems like the right/left tackle spots have been solidified. They aren't complete liabilities and dare I say "above average/good"?

Do I wish the guard play heald up a bit better at times? Yes. But it's just so important to have those tackle spots playing better when we face guys like Watt and Garrett twice a year.

I'd give the unit a B- so far this year.

I do, and here's why: I grew up watching the 49ers (ironically) do just that with the *Ohio River* offense in the 80s. 

Agree with all of the rest. Especially when you consider Joe was pretty much a statue for at least four weeks.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-20-2023, 11:50 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I feel the part to note about that is that he's remained healthy, we haven't been reading about him getting dinged up and appearing on the weekly injury reports.  Perhaps the move to the right side is better for his knees?

That's a good point, he played through one knee injury, then went down with another last year.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-20-2023, 12:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: That's a good point, he played through one knee injury, then went down with another last year.

Going to the opposite side of the line shifts all of those repetitive stresses on those joints to the opposite direction as well.  For all we know his Ortho could have suggested that he embrace the move to the other side of the line as it might increase his playing lifetime?

[Joelist]

It's interesting that on the right side Jonah is not getting beat a lot to the inside like he was on the left side. I think the right side plays better to his physical traits.

[chrisball96]

(10-20-2023, 10:23 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I am interested to see how the OL continues to hold up with longer developing/longer drop back plays and if we go under center. 

Burrow has gotten the ball out EXTREMELY quickly so far this year. It def makes the OL job easier. The true test will be how they hold up as we throw the ball down the field more as Burrow continues to get healthier. 

I think that another part of this is how we can now also perhaps move the pocket a bit more with a healthy Burrow. In my mind this will also help with changing things up and keeping defenses more honest, adding a new component to the offense that will help the line because it won't be just the same drop straight back the entire game.

[NotBigzo]

I immediately think of Burrow's quick release but remember that his release was just as fast last year. I don't think we can deny that the line has improved. The problem is we're still seeing the same episodes of buttcheek offense despite the improvement. So what's the problem?

[HarleyDog]

(10-20-2023, 11:50 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Perhaps the move to the right side is better for his knees?

Getting out from under Pollack's desk would've helped too. 

(10-20-2023, 12:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: That's a good point, he played through one knee injury, then went down with another last year.

See, Bad habits are hard to break. 

Seriously, I'm going to play negative Nate on this and call BS on the article. Monday Callahan comes out and bitches about the offense. Then strokes Pollacks ego a few days later saying they've improved and he's proud of him. Geezus, we're never going to get rid of Pollack, are we? 

[SunsetBengal]

(10-20-2023, 01:00 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Getting out from under Pollack's desk would've helped too. 


See, Bad habits are hard to break. 

Seriously, I'm going to play negative Nate on this and call BS on the article. Monday Callahan comes out and bitches about the offense. Then strokes Pollacks ego a few days later saying they've improved and he's proud of him. Geezus, we're never going to get rid of Pollack, are we? 

You're right, that is a bit flippy-floppy with his messaging.  Callahan needs to pick a position, it's either "we need to execute better" or "we're happy with the improvement". Can't be both in the same week.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-20-2023, 11:21 AM)Goalpost Wrote: Right now is he worth the 5 year/75 million that Spotrac suggests he will get in the FA open market? 

A deal at that amount would be $15 mill APY.

If he was staying at RT, that would put him 7th among all RTs in yearly salary.
If LT, would be 11th highest.

If he re-signed with the Bengals, he would obviously play RT, so let's compare him to other RTs making around that cost.
Is he about as good as Rob Havenstein, Caleb McGary, and Jack Conklin?
McGary and Havenstein make $11.5 mill APY and Conklin makes $15 mill.

But you can also find a guy like Morgan Moses, who is only making $5 mill APY and is doing well with the Ravens. Or George Fant for only $3 mill.
Moses is playing better than Williams, Fant about the same.

For me personally, I'd be ok offering around $9-12 mill for Williams if he continues his current trend.
But I don't think he's worth $15+ mill unless he really starts dominating the second half of the season.

[*Go Cards*]

Pass protection looks better this year by the eye test.

Wouldn't call it great, but definitely improved.