Does Burrow need to hit another level?

[*PhilHos*]

(11-15-2023, 01:37 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And you know…giving up 544 total yards on defense.

(11-15-2023, 09:34 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Going 6 drives, 2 quarters, 5 punts and 32 yards on offense didn’t help the matter.

I think it's fair to say this was a total team failure. Defense played horribly most game. Offense was nonexistent most of the game. Both stepped up at times in the 4th QTR, though it was clearly too little too late.

[Housh]

(11-13-2023, 11:39 AM)Housh Wrote: No, his WRs need to get open and his o-line needs to not get beaten 1/4 of a second after the snap

Also a WR is allowed to break a tackle

Seems like Boyd and Chase are the only guys breaking tackles after catches. Really driving home my idea that we needed a WR4 was who was burner in this offense. That would’ve also made putting 2 guys over Chase hard to don

[*PhilHos*]

(11-15-2023, 01:02 PM)Housh Wrote: Also a WR is allowed to break a tackle

Seems like Boyd and Chase are the only guys breaking tackles after catches. Really driving home my idea that we needed a WR4 was who was burner in this offense. That would’ve also made putting 2 guys over Chase hard to don

I hear John Ross is avaialble.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-15-2023, 11:21 AM)Wyche Wrote: Absolutely. When Burrow was on a cheap deal, and we didn't have other extensions looming, they were getting guys like Reader, Bell, tagging Bates, Awuzie, etc. Getting Wilson and Pratt extended was a good move and didn't break the bank. I like where they're headed, they need some young dlinemen to step up and pan out for it to really succeed. Getting olineman that produce in the draft should be next. They gotta hit on them though.

For sure, need players like Cam Sample, Ossai, Carter and on down the road Murphy to step up on the DL and we need to start 
hitting on the OL in the Draft a touch. But I think in order to do this we will have to move on from Pollack as he cannot develop OL
clearly and is a part of the drafting process. We need to add a good OL coach and a scout that knows OL.

(11-15-2023, 11:28 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yep. They need to stop getting so conservative in the middle of games. It leads to too many lulls for the offense. They usually look good to start the game, and then again when they have to start pushing the ball down the field, but not so much in between. I’d like to see them stay aggressive. You have Burrow and Chase for a reason. Idc what the coverage is. You have to at least take your shots.

Yes, the Offense usually has a good start, the gameplan is usually good, but keeping it flowing and going away from the running 
game is still a big problem on top of not staying aggressive. The right run call can be aggressive if done right and going deep to 
Chase is usually always effective. The more targets he gets, the better the Offense is from the numbers. When the Offense stalls 
in the middle of games and the Defense is always on the field it is not a good sign.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

The Bengals have the least amount of rushing attempts in the league.

Burrow hitting another level every game is the plan. And it is probably going to be from the shotgun.  Without any trickeration.

Step 1: Make the read.
Step 2: Avoid the sack.
Step 3: Make the throw.
Step 4: Rinse and repeat.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-15-2023, 02:42 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The Bengals have the least amount of rushing attempts in the league.

Burrow hitting another level every game is the plan. And it is probably going to be from the shotgun.  Without any trickeration.

Step 1: Make the read.
Step 2: Avoid the sack.
Step 3: Make the throw.
Step 4: Rinse and repeat.

This needs to stop no question, it is way too predictable. Our best games Offensively have been when Burrow goes under Center
multiple times. I don't know why we go away from what is working. That isn't winning football. Burrow going under Center opens
up the running game and makes our Offense way less predictable, this was even stated after the 49ers game.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-15-2023, 03:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This needs to stop no question, it is way too predictable. Our best games Offensively have been when Burrow goes under Center
multiple times. I don't know why we go away from what is working. That isn't winning football. Burrow going under Center opens
up the running game and makes our Offense way less predictable, this was even stated after the 49ers game.

(11-13-2023, 11:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote:

The Bengals aren't very scheme-reliant like the Texans and other teams that will heavily use play-action and try to create easy throws for their QB.

They rely on Burrow and Chase to be superheroes. They're slow at RB, WR, TE and OL. Those guys all need scheme help. https://t.co/tnwod9KeoC

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 13, 2023

Wouldn't want to create easy throws.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Interesting article and words from Joe on the level of aggression....

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/joe-burrow-expands-on-entering-aggressive-mode-during-games

[Destro]

(11-15-2023, 01:10 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I hear John Ross is avaialble.

[Brownshoe]

(11-15-2023, 04:06 PM)Wyche Wrote: Interesting article and words from Joe on the level of aggression....

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/joe-burrow-expands-on-entering-aggressive-mode-during-games

That's what I was saying about bad play calling making Burrow force the ball into tight windows later in the game. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-14-2023, 10:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Right, it’s just crazy to me seeing people cry about not paying every single player on the defense. No team can do that. No matter what their QB is making.

But our starting DL is making;

Hendrickson - $21 million
Reader - $13.2 million
Hubbard - $10 million
Hill - $10 million

They’ve invested plenty on that side of the ball.

Absolutely. We have two top-22 paid DEs and two top-22 paid DTs, plus a first round pick and two third round picks used on DL the last 3 years. They have spent both capital and draft capital.

The only place you can say they skimped on defense is Nick Scott over Vonn Bell, because they still gave Scott a decent-ish amount of money anyway despite being a vastly inferior player. It was always 100% worth the extra $3.5m/yr to keep Bell, though I would venture that the $10m more in guaranteed at signing money was the sticking point more than the $3.5m/yr.

[Brownshoe]

(11-15-2023, 09:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Absolutely. We have two top-22 paid DEs and two top-22 paid DTs, plus a first round pick and two third round picks used on DL the last 3 years. They have spent both capital and draft capital.

The only place you can say they skimped on defense is Nick Scott over Vonn Bell, because they still gave Scott a decent-ish amount of money anyway despite being a vastly inferior player. It was always 100% worth the extra $3.5m/yr to keep Bell, though I would venture that the $10m more in guaranteed at signing money was the sticking point more than the $3.5m/yr.

Yeah I was kind of shocked we let Bell walk. I thought for sure we would resign him since Bates was no way coming back.

[Essex Johnson]

(11-15-2023, 03:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This needs to stop no question, it is way too predictable. Our best games Offensively have been when Burrow goes under Center
multiple times. I don't know why we go away from what is working. That isn't winning football. Burrow going under Center opens
up the running game and makes our Offense way less predictable, this was even stated after the 49ers game.

Burrow since he came into Nfl has one of lowest snaps under center , no surprise he rarely did it in college and has fair play action anyway

[Nepa]

(11-15-2023, 09:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Absolutely. We have two top-22 paid DEs and two top-22 paid DTs, plus a first round pick and two third round picks used on DL the last 3 years. They have spent both capital and draft capital.

The only place you can say they skimped on defense is Nick Scott over Vonn Bell, because they still gave Scott a decent-ish amount of money anyway despite being a vastly inferior player. It was always 100% worth the extra $3.5m/yr to keep Bell, though I would venture that the $10m more in guaranteed at signing money was the sticking point more than the $3.5m/yr.

Yeah, I agree that the problem with signing Vonn Bell was the guaranteed money. By most accounts, the overall amount of the contract was less than what many were projecting. I saw where some were projecting he would get 10.1 million annually, and Spotrac projected 9.7 million per season, whereas the overall contract was 22.5 million over 3 years.  I imagine the sticking point for the Bengals was the 13 million guaranteed.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-15-2023, 08:48 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: That's what I was saying about bad play calling making Burrow force the ball into tight windows later in the game. 

I just saw where Joe said he wasn't being aggressive against the defenses he usually sees....cover 2, Tampa 2 especially. In other words, he's being overly cautious/patient instead of forcing the ball up the field. You see where it's bad playcalls. I'll listen to Joe.

[Rubekahn29]

(11-16-2023, 10:01 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I just saw where Joe said he wasn't being aggressive against the defenses he usually sees....cover 2, Tampa 2 especially. In other words, he's being overly cautious/patient instead of forcing the ball up the field. You see where it's bad playcalls. I'll listen to Joe.

There was one okay where I saw online where Yoshi was wide open like by 5 steps and Burrow went to the check down too quickly. He had the time to throw this too. I know he wants to be careful, but sometimes you just have to give your guys a chance.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-16-2023, 02:10 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: There was one okay where I saw online where Yoshi was wide open like by 5 steps and Burrow went to the check down too quickly. He had the time to throw this too. I know he wants to be careful, but sometimes you just have to give your guys a chance.

Yes, there were several such plays against Cleveland if I remember correctly. Of course, he was hobbled at the time, and maybe he couldn't even get the ball any deeper.

[reuben.ahmed]

(11-14-2023, 06:53 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: If an offense doesn’t go 5 consecutive drives with 35 yards and 5 punts, o doubt the Texans get 550 yards. It’s called complementary football and the offense is not great at it.

I don't know, I'm pretty sure they still do because those 35 yard passes are going to be wide open either way? Bengals D worst in league in chunk plays, yards per play is highest. Funny to blame the offense for the defense's woes or vice versa, not a straight line there. They are depending on turnovers which seems like an undependable way to win games.

[BigBad]

(11-13-2023, 12:46 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Philip Rivers never even sniffed a Super Bowl. The one conference championship he made it to he only completed 51% of his passes, threw 2 INT’s to 0 TD’s, had a 46.1 passer rating, and lost by 2 scores.

So not sure we need to infer Burrow is closer to that.

I'm a Chargers fan who lives in Dayton so I follow the Bengals due to friends.  I browse this board from time to time.

Never registered but I did because I just couldn't let this slide.


At least provide context.  Rivers tore his ACL 7 days prior and played.  Gates had a hurt foot two games prior and was a shell.  Tomlinson badly sprained knee the previous game and did not play a snap here.  Oh, and they were playing the undefeated Patriots in Foxboro.  I still believe if all healthy that was the year but like all of you Bengals fans I'm still waiting.  


 Hope the Bengals beat the Ravens tonight!  Good Luck