The sustainability of this defense...

[007BengalsFan]

(11-13-2023, 02:51 PM)Housh Wrote: He essentially erased part of the field for us which allowed Lou to get Uber creative with coverages.


Now that we have a ghost at FS Lou is trying to run similar defense and it just isn’t working

When you let guys like Bates, Bell, Apple, Ogunjobi leave because you want to save money to pay the guys on offense big contracts, the offense needs to carry the team.  Its not Lou's fault he doesnt have the same talent on defense anymore.  The Bengals defense has one Pro Bowl level player right now with Hendrickson.  Thats it.  Lou cant make miracles happen.  We dont have the talent on defense that Baltimore has or Cleveland has or Pittsburgh has.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-13-2023, 03:24 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Sure? I am not sure what that has to do with anything? 

The point is the Bengals are hardly the first team to get smoked by that Texans offense. The Steelers defense is the only reason that team is currently 6-3, and they gave up 30 points against Houston, Stroud threw for 300+ yards, 2 TD’s, and had a 111. 3 passer rating.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-13-2023, 03:27 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: When you let guys like Bates, Bell, Apple, Ogunjobi leave because you want to save money to pay the guys on offense big contracts, the offense needs to carry the team.  Its not Lou's fault he doesnt have the same talent on defense anymore.  The Bengals defense has one Pro Bowl level player right now with Hendrickson.  Thats it.  Lou cant make miracles happen.  We dont have the talent on defense that Baltimore has or Cleveland has or Pittsburgh has.

CTB is playing at a Pro Bowl level.

[007BengalsFan]

(11-13-2023, 03:35 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: CTB is playing at a Pro Bowl level.

He is playing good but I dont know if he is Pro Bowl material just yet.  He has been burnt several times and like the rest of the secondary loses his guy at times.  

[*ochocincos*]

(11-07-2023, 11:00 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I can't say I'm "worried" about this defense, but I think it's worth talking about.

This defense has been good, but they haven't been "good" in the traditional sense. A BIG part of why they are good is because of turnovers, and red zone turnovers at that.

They are currently in the bottom 5 of the league in pass and rush yards given up per game. They are also in the bottom 1/4 of the league in total yards given up per game. Statistically, they aren't as good as they were last year where they hovered right around league average in yards given up per game.

Now they are only giving up 20 points per game this year compared to 20 last year, so that is about the same. The big reason for giving up such a low number of points is because of those red zone turnovers, though.  

I am just wondering how sustainable this "bend don't break" style of defense is going to be. IMO -a lot of those red zone turnovers are as much luck as they are "players making plays". I just hope we can tighten up our defense overall and not have to rely on turnovers to stop teams from scoring...because it will eventually catch up.

Strikingly similar to the 2005 defense.
2005 - 28th in total yards allowed, 29th in net pass yards per attempt allowed, 27th in rush yards per attempt allowed
2023 - 30th in total yards allowed, 29th in net pass yards per attempt allowed, 31st in rush yards per attempt allowed

The timely turnovers and sacks are what's keeping them average in points allowed (16th).

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-13-2023, 03:43 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: He is playing good but I dont know if he is Pro Bowl material just yet.  He has been burnt several times and like the rest of the secondary loses his guy at times.  

He’s tied for 3rd in the league in INT’s (4), and tied for top 10 in the league in PD (9).

[WeezyBengal]

(11-13-2023, 03:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The point is the Bengals are hardly the first team to get smoked by that Texans offense. The Steelers defense is the only reason that team is currently 6-3, and they gave up 30 points against Houston, Stroud threw for 300+ yards, 2 TD’s, and had a 111. 3 passer rating.

The Steelers aren't a great defense. They give up a shit ton of yards and live off of turnovers, just like the Bengals. They are almost mirror images of each other. 

The Steelers are 6-3 because they've beaten a lot of bad teams. I still don't know what the Steelers defense has to do with the Bengals defense, though.

[WeezyBengal]

(11-13-2023, 03:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Strikingly similar to the 2005 defense.
2005 - 28th in total yards allowed, 29th in net pass yards per attempt allowed, 27th in rush yards per attempt allowed
2023 - 30th in total yards allowed, 29th in net pass yards per attempt allowed, 31st in rush yards per attempt allowed

The timely turnovers and sacks are what's keeping them average in points allowed (16th).

Right - but is that sustainable and is it the mark of a good or decent defense?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-13-2023, 03:57 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The Steelers aren't a great defense. They give up a shit ton of yards and live off of turnovers, just like the Bengals. They are almost mirror images of each other. 

The Steelers are 6-3 because they've beaten a lot of bad teams. I still don't know what the Steelers defense has to do with the Bengals defense, though.

It’s really not that hard to understand. You said giving up 30 to the Texans = a bad unit. I don’t think the Steelers defense is a bad unit, and I used them as an example.

[KillerGoose]

(11-13-2023, 03:43 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: He is playing good but I dont know if he is Pro Bowl material just yet.  He has been burnt several times and like the rest of the secondary loses his guy at times.  

Those things will occasionally happen, yes. He is allowing a 60 passer rating to receivers in his coverage. That's the 10th lowest in the NFL and he is tied for second in interceptions. He has allowed only one touchdown. He's definitely putting up a Pro Bowl resume. 

Given the Bengals prolific use of zone coverage, the times where you think he is getting "burned", he may not actually be. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-13-2023, 04:01 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Those things will occasionally happen, yes. He is allowing a 60 passer rating to receivers in his coverage. That's the 10th lowest in the NFL and he is tied for second in interceptions. He has allowed only one touchdown. He's definitely putting up a Pro Bowl resume. 

Given the Bengals prolific use of zone coverage, the times where you think he is getting "burned", he may not actually be. 

2nd? I’m seeing tied for 3rd. Geno Stone has 6, and Daron Bland has 5.

[KillerGoose]

(11-13-2023, 04:04 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 2nd? I’m seeing tied for 3rd. Geno Stone has 6, and Daron Bland has 5.

Maybe PFF doesn't have their data updated just yet then. Bland is at the top for them with five. Thanks for correcting that. 

[BengalBob]

31st in the league in yards given up per play.

This defense sucks.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-13-2023, 03:58 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Right - but is that sustainable and is it the mark of a good or decent defense?

Of course not.
Just like offenses shouldn't rely on the big plays, defenses shouldn't rely on turnovers.

[TheCincinnatiKid]

(11-13-2023, 03:16 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You are really sitting here saying the offense is the reason we lost that game yesterday? 

No, I said 'the offence blew the chance to win the game'. They had 1st and goal, picked two awful plays to run and then dropped a sure fire TD. They blew the chance to win the game. 

That's not the same as saying they were the reason we lost the game. For all the yards the defence gave up, the offence went like 36 minutes without scoring. Both units were pretty tragic. An all-around team loss this one, and not much point in analysing it. The Texans were pretty good, and the Bengals were just really bad.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-07-2023, 12:18 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s sustainable. They’ve got studs at every level. And Lou.

This guy ^ was really, really, wrong.

[Brownshoe]

(11-26-2023, 06:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This guy ^ was really, really, wrong.

The offense didn't do the defense any favors, but they definitely didn't look good.

[TheCincinnatiKid]

(11-26-2023, 06:08 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The offense didn't do the defense any favors, but they definitely didn't look good.

No defence is going to win a game when the offence manages a whole 7 points. But the defence gave up over 400 yards to Kenny Pickett and a not phenomenal run game. Browning was maybe slightly better than I envisaged (not but a lot, and not saying much either), but the defence knew who was our starting QB... knew the defensive effort would have to be largely shutdown... and they gave up over 400 yards. 

They had that good spell during the win streak, but largely it seems the defence is just bad this year. 

[*michaelsean*]

(11-26-2023, 06:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This guy ^ was really, really, wrong.

I think there’s a rule about calling members out.

[*Synric*]

(11-26-2023, 06:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This guy ^ was really, really, wrong.

Defense held the Steelers to 3 points until 1:30 in the 3rd quarter 16 total points for the game. Not perfect but they got zero help from the offense... speaking of which wow...