PFF Grades vs Bills

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-08-2023, 12:02 PM)Synric Wrote: It's both for the TEs the personnel isn't great and they under utilize the position which isn't necessarily a bad thing. 


Tanner Hudson did a really good job of reading the coverages and finding a hole to sit in in zone coverage and flashing his numbers back to the QB but they aren't asking the TE group to go out there and be high in the progression against man coverage on 3rd downs. They have 3 very good receivers they rely on in those situations and rightly so...

There was one play Joe just told us they got caught in and he took a chance on Irv Smith Jr. It was a great route against man coverage to win leverage with a good release create separation with his body at the stem flip his hips elevate catch AND get down because he knows those back lines are getting close.

He made a pretty nice play on that TD you mentioned here. Not gonna lie, I was nervous when I saw who he was targeting.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-08-2023, 10:39 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm going to step out on the ledge here and suggest that it isn't as much the actual personnel as much as the utilization that is making the RB and TE stats so weak.

I agree with that, in part. But as is almost always the case there's a lot of reasons why the utilization was low. 1. Mixon can't run from the shotgun, he just isn't effective with it 90% of the time. JB had to be in the shotgun first 5 games or whatever?

2. The TE's didn't get a lot of targets early in season because they were staying in to block a lot. And they weren't catching the ball basically at all and JB didn't trust them I believe.

3. ZT had a very hard time game planning around a hobbled QB.

Hopefully moving forward we can mix in a good bit more under center which will open up a ton more options.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(11-08-2023, 09:51 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Taylor said in his interview posted in another thread that Hudson has always been like the 54th player on the roster. My question, because I haven't looked it up, is who was not active that allowed him to move to the game day roster? Was Wilcox active, or was there a scratch at another position?

No. That is not the way it works. 

You can elevate a guy from the PS to the 53 at any time. Which of the 53 are active in gameday has no direct bearing on it. I think you can 2 per week.  However....

Hudson had already been elevated twice, when Smith was hurt. You can only do it three times without exposing them to waivers. So teams don't usually elevate PS guys unless they are gonna be active on game day. 

With Jones & Brown & Anderson on IR, and Tycen out for the year, we had another permanent spot on the 53 open up, and Hudson had earned it. 

[Sled21]

(11-08-2023, 10:32 AM)TheFan Wrote: Our RBs and TEs are clearly the weakest part of our offense. The RBs have been average at best all year with dome bad games (including against the Bills). I'll need to see more than 1 game where the TEs are utilized before I feel comfortable about our TE room. If Hudson continues to put up good numbers that's honestly more of an indictment on the staff that it took them until week 8 to see it when everyone here and many people covering the team saw it in preseason.

James Casey is a premiere Tight Ends coach. He got here at the end of Eifert's career here, but what he did with Uzomah, then Hurst, got them both paid. And if Hudson continues to put up good numbers here, after failing to prosper at his other teams, that is not an indictment of Casey, it is a confirmation. 

[Sled21]

(11-08-2023, 01:26 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: No. That is not the way it works. 

You can elevate a guy from the PS to the 53 at any time. Which of the 53 are active in gameday has no direct bearing on it. I think you can 2 per week.  However....

Hudson had already been elevated twice, when Smith was hurt. You can only do it three times without exposing them to waivers. So teams don't usually elevate PS guys unless they are gonna be active on game day. 

With Jones & Brown & Anderson on IR, and Tycen out for the year, we had another permanent spot on the 53 open up, and Hudson had earned it. 

You still only get 48 allowed to be active on the game day roster. If he was active on game day, someone else wasn't.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-07-2023, 11:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Highest PFF Grades from the win over Buffalo

Offense:
1) Burrow, 91.1
2) Higgins, 86.2
3) Hudson, 81.3
4) Sample, 78.0
5) Smith Jr., 74.5

3 TIGHT-ENDS IN THE TOP 5 GRADED OFFENSIVE PLAYERS

Defense:
1) Taylor-Britt, 88.6
2) Awuzie, 76.3
3) BJ Hill, 75.4
4) Reader, 72.4
5) D.…

— Der German Tiger? (@DerGermanTiger) November 7, 2023

Hope our TE's keep it up and we continue to use them similarly. Burrow keeps playing like this and our Defense plays like it 
has lately and we might not lose another game. CTB is a stud already which is awesome. Chido is looking better and better.

[TheFan]

(11-08-2023, 02:31 PM)Sled21 Wrote: James Casey is a premiere Tight Ends coach. He got here at the end of Eifert's career here, but what he did with Uzomah, then Hurst, got them both paid. And if Hudson continues to put up good numbers here, after failing to prosper at his other teams, that is not an indictment of Casey, it is a confirmation. 

I'm not saying he's not a good coach but I think calling him a "premiere" coach might be a bit of a stretch. Uzomah was barely better in 2021 than 2018 before Casey arrived. Hurst did okay but it wasn't even close to his career year in Atlanta. Also the contracts they got are pretty mid for TEs on their non rookie deals.

And I didn't even mean an indictment on Casey as in his inability to coach. I meant indictment as far as the coaching staff (may not even be Casey) having Hudson sitting on the bench for basically 7 games, barring injury, if he was our best receiving TE on the roster. Maybe Irv will take off and Hudson will do nothing the rest of the year, proving all of us wrong and them right. But from what we've seen in Hudsons limited action he gives us the most from the TE spot, not counting Samples blocking. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(11-08-2023, 02:35 PM)Sled21 Wrote: You still only get 48 allowed to be active on the game day roster. If he was active on game day, someone else wasn't.

No kidding. But you have inactive guys whether you elevate someone or not. 

[chrisball96]

In terms of the Tight End play I feel like a lot was being said earlier about how it looked like Joe didn't really trust that position and so it wasn't targeted. Joe, when injured, was going to the sure thing: Chase. This is totally understandable. But now that Joe is (A) healthy and (B) seeing that all our TE's are playing better, this could open a whole lot more opportunity for this offense.

It is one game, I get it. It may all be just a one-time thing. But Burrow makes everybody better, and if he looks the way of the TE and those guys are ready and able, it would be huge for this offense. Again, they don't have to put up Kelce/Kittle numbers (and likely never will) just be reliable and hold onto the football when open.

I think a lot of us were very concerned that we couldn't even get a basic level of play out of the TE position and even if it was just for one game, I'll take what we got on Sunday. But I'm greedy and hoping for more.

[SouthernFan]

Anyone got ratings for the o-line. Does PFF still hate our o-line?

[KillerGoose]

(11-08-2023, 07:47 PM)SouthernFan Wrote: Anyone got ratings for the o-line. Does PFF still hate our o-line?

Orlando Brown - 68.9 run block, 60.7 pass block, 66.7 overall
Cordell Volson - 43.5 pass block, 54.7 run block, 51.8 overall
Ted Karras - 61.2 pass block, 54.9 run block, 57.9 overall
Alex Cappa - 38.8 pass block, 69.2, 49 overall
Jonah Williams - 61.2 pass block, 55.1 run block, 60.1 overall

[Nepa]

(11-08-2023, 07:59 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Orlando Brown - 68.9 run block, 60.7 pass block, 66.7 overall
Cordell Volson - 43.5 pass block, 54.7 run block, 51.8 overall
Ted Karras - 61.2 pass block, 54.9 run block, 57.9 overall
Alex Cappa - 38.8 pass block, 69.2, 49 overall
Jonah Williams - 61.2 pass block, 55.1 run block, 60.1 overall

Thank you.

Wow, the guards were bad on pass blocking. But looking good on the tackles.

[SouthernFan]

(11-08-2023, 07:59 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Orlando Brown - 68.9 run block, 60.7 pass block, 66.7 overall
Cordell Volson - 43.5 pass block, 54.7 run block, 51.8 overall
Ted Karras - 61.2 pass block, 54.9 run block, 57.9 overall
Alex Cappa - 38.8 pass block, 69.2, 49 overall
Jonah Williams - 61.2 pass block, 55.1 run block, 60.1 overall

Thanks, doesn’t look like PFF sees much improvement.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-08-2023, 09:00 PM)SouthernFan Wrote: Thanks, doesn’t look like PFF sees much improvement.

Pretty sure Buffalo had the highest graded pass rush in the league coming into our game. This was a tough matchup for our OL. Especially throwing it 44 times. Watching some of it back there was definitely plays where the pocket collapsed and Joe had nowhere to step up, but there was also some really nice pockets on some of his throws.

Sample was flat out amazing in that game. He blocked a DE by himself a couple times, and the OL was just looking around for work.

[sandwedge]

(11-08-2023, 10:32 AM)TheFan Wrote: Our RBs and TEs are clearly the weakest part of our offense. The RBs have been average at best all year with dome bad games (including against the Bills). I'll need to see more than 1 game where the TEs are utilized before I feel comfortable about our TE room. If Hudson continues to put up good numbers that's honestly more of an indictment on the staff that it took them until week 8 to see it when everyone here and many people covering the team saw it in preseason.

I will take the coaching staff over the people outside the organization when it comes time to play certain players....

[Sled21]

(11-08-2023, 07:40 PM)chrisball96 Wrote: In terms of the Tight End play I feel like a lot was being said earlier about how it looked like Joe didn't really trust that position and so it wasn't targeted. Joe, when injured, was going to the sure thing: Chase. This is totally understandable. But now that Joe is (A) healthy and (B) seeing that all our TE's are playing better, this could open a whole lot more opportunity for this offense.

It is one game, I get it. It may all be just a one-time thing. But Burrow makes everybody better, and if he looks the way of the TE and those guys are ready and able, it would be huge for this offense. Again, they don't have to put up Kelce/Kittle numbers (and likely never will) just be reliable and hold onto the football when open.

I think a lot of us were very concerned that we couldn't even get a basic level of play out of the TE position and even if it was just for one game, I'll take what we got on Sunday. But I'm greedy and hoping for more.

Zac said a lot of those plays that went to Tight Ends this week are the same plays they always use, it's just an option whether the ball goes to the Tight End or the Wide Receiver, and I guess the coverage in this game meant the Tight Ends were the better targets. 

[Sled21]

(11-08-2023, 11:18 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Pretty sure Buffalo had the highest graded pass rush in the league coming into our game. This was a tough matchup for our OL. Especially throwing it 44 times. Watching some of it back there was definitely plays where the pocket collapsed and Joe had nowhere to step up, but there was also some really nice pockets on some of his throws.

Sample was flat out amazing in that game. He blocked a DE by himself a couple times, and the OL was just looking around for work.

And that's why he is here. And just like Peko did, he gets a lot of hate for doing his job well. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-09-2023, 09:16 AM)Sled21 Wrote: And that's why he is here. And just like Peko did, he gets a lot of hate for doing his job well. 

I hated the Sample pick at the time as much as anyone, but we have to move past that at this point. He’s not even on that contract anymore. He definitely does have some value. I wouldn’t mind seeing him extended this offseason.

[*Synric*]

(11-08-2023, 07:59 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Orlando Brown - 68.9 run block, 60.7 pass block, 66.7 overall
Cordell Volson - 43.5 pass block, 54.7 run block, 51.8 overall
Ted Karras - 61.2 pass block, 54.9 run block, 57.9 overall
Alex Cappa - 38.8 pass block, 69.2, 49 overall
Jonah Williams - 61.2 pass block, 55.1 run block, 60.1 overall

(11-08-2023, 08:14 PM)Nepa Wrote: Thank you.

Wow, the guards were bad on pass blocking. But looking good on the tackles.

(11-08-2023, 09:00 PM)SouthernFan Wrote: Thanks, doesn’t look like PFF sees much improvement.

You have to take the interior numbers with a grain of salt because of what the Bills were doing on defense. McDermott brought a blitz on over 30% over the defensive snaps he was trying to attack the edges of the interior gaps with extra guys and T/E games to move Burrow off his spot and ruin the timing. They actually did a good job sorting out the chaos in front of them.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(11-08-2023, 04:40 PM)TheFan Wrote: I'm not saying he's not a good coach but I think calling him a "premiere" coach might be a bit of a stretch. Uzomah was barely better in 2021 than 2018 before Casey arrived. Hurst did okay but it wasn't even close to his career year in Atlanta. Also the contracts they got are pretty mid for TEs on their non rookie deals.

And I didn't even mean an indictment on Casey as in his inability to coach. I meant indictment as far as the coaching staff (may not even be Casey) having Hudson sitting on the bench for basically 7 games, barring injury, if he was our best receiving TE on the roster. Maybe Irv will take off and Hudson will do nothing the rest of the year, proving all of us wrong and them right. But from what we've seen in Hudsons limited action he gives us the most from the TE spot, not counting Samples blocking. 

IIRC, Hurst got the biggest FA contract of any FA TE last year. Not on a Kelce/Kittle/Hockenstein level, but the biggest (total and apy) of his class. That is pretty good. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2023/

Same thing for Uzomah in 2022. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2022/all/all/